MIGRANT REFUGEES: ARE THOSE WHO WALKED THROUGH AUSTRIA & HUNGARY A ‘SECOND WAVE’?

migrantheroes7915

Today’s refugees are tomorrow’s citizens

I posted Saturday about the need to retain a balance between practical consideration and the humanely emotional response when it comes to migrant refugees from North Africa….around 80% of whom are from Syria. The piece got 2784 hits in one day and evoked 48 5-star reviews – one of the highest ever at The Slog. but judging from today’s chattering on the internet it seems the readership here is pretty atypical. Be it the naive enthusiasm of the wide-eyed Left or the hatred of the wide-boy Right, the general mood out there strikes me as being one of hysteria….see above.

Hungarian PM Viktor Orban has been forced to deny any chance of illegal entrants being shot if they force fences. As he never suggested he would, from which spin-silo did that one emerge?

‘They’re all just scroungers looking for a free meal ticket’ tweeted one person this morning, ‘drowning at sea is where they belong’. Amazingly, it wasn’t Hatie Piskonk. But by the same token, when one woman wondered why – if these were families – 75% of the migrants were men, she was offered a hail of assertive ‘reasons’: ‘this is the tradition in Syria’, ‘women get raped by the sailors’ and so forth….but not an iota of evidence was offered for any of it.

Why are they in such a hurry to get out of Hungary asked one bloke, to which again the standard response was “because Orban has made his contempt for them clear”. This isn’t what Orban said, but anyway if that was the case why didn’t they settle in Austria? ‘They’d bought valid tickets for Germany’ answered another. Why did they do that, I asked in one tweet, and as illegal migrants, where did they get the euros with which to buy them? ‘They know Germany will welcome them’ came back more tweets. They know the same about Austria, I ventured: why Germany?

Perhaps this is remiss of me, but since when did beggars get to be choosers? It seemed to me that, for people in acute distress, there was an awful lot of insisting going on. ‘Hungary has put obstacles in their way, can’t you see that?’ asked another tweeter. No I can’t (I answered) all I can see is these people making unfettered progress through the Evil Orban’s black-hearted vassal of Evil. I’d already been in contact with people in Budapest, who had witnessed first-hand a rush by migrants at the platform barriers and then onto an already crammed train bound for Vienna. It was clear from their responses that while Syrians might be making good progress out of Hungary, they weren’t making many friends along the way.

And there is something else very badly amiss here – whatever part of the ideology syndrome people occupy. The make-up of the migrant refugees has very clearly altered since the mass exit from Syria became front-page global news. I hauled my way through 30 odd pictures of the ‘March of Hope’, and children were hard to spot. Young people of both genders seemed to predominate. The feedback from Hungary (and Italy) about the nature of the migrants confirmed this. It was almost as if we were looking at a ‘second wave’ of arrivals – people who were, it seemed to me – completely different in make-up and attitude from the poor wretches we gaped at in horror collapsing onto beaches three weeks ago.

As for ‘Heartless Hungary’, in the last post on migrants I refuted that ridiculous notion with a ton of evidence to the contrary: frankly, only those who’ve never been to Hungary could accept such a bigoted (borderline racist) notion. Equally, Viktor Orban’s outlook and record on the question give the lie to all the bile being aimed at him last weekend. To reiterate, he said we should stop the war in Syria, get the truce and then have a 3-power occupation and then invest in the post-war infrastructure. Unlike those playing geopolitical games, he wasn’t: had the belligerents listened to him, we would not have this tragedy now.

Orban’s view is clear: he does not want a large Islamic influx into a country of only 9.8m for two reasons: first, because of Hungary’s extremely negative experience with Ottamans historically; and second, because he does not, on the whole, find the Islamic record on integration into European States that impressive. I can’t argue with that, because I think he has a point: both in France and in the UK, Muslim populations of from 3-8% have created both social and security problems for the host nations. Indians, Afro-Caribbeans, Irish and Jewish immigrants into the UK, for example, haven’t on the whole. Reading this paragraph, some will already have decided I’m a racist; I am merely an empiricist. Orban doesn’t want a Marine Le Pen or 55,000 terrorists on his patch – he has enough to deal with keeping the EU><US propaganda and régime-change infiltrators off his back.

Other considerations are, in turn, being ignored. It is four years since Angela Merkel described multiculturalism in Germany as “a failure”: yet here she is, hogging the limelight now as The Great Saviour. This is two-faced of the lady, but not surprising: with the jubilant mood of wide-eyed German citizens as it is on the issue, she is of course playing to the gallery….both internally, and externally – where the Greek bullying lost the country many friends. The reality, however, is that sooner or later today’s migrant refugees have to become inclusive and tolerant citizens. By the time Germany has that problem, Frau Mirakle will be long-gone….as will the media. Twas ever thus.

Last but not least, the previous time I received an avalanche of abuse for being cruel in the face of ‘hope’ was about ‘The Arab Spring’. My oh my, that turned out well, didn’t it? It was greeted with overwhelming joy…but Islamism destroyed a non-opportunity that had been rendered so by decades of braindead US foreign policy. It was clear to everyone with a left cortex that it would end in tears. The triumph of misplaced hope over reality while being lowered into the lions’ den stopped surprising me years ago.

Anyway, once more into the Twitter pit. Not sure I can face it for much longer. It’s not the anger and spite that get to me, it’s the blind stupidity. It is not necessary to become an idiot in order to offer profound compassion to (and money for) those in genuine distress.

From the archives: Remember Egypt

103 thoughts on “MIGRANT REFUGEES: ARE THOSE WHO WALKED THROUGH AUSTRIA & HUNGARY A ‘SECOND WAVE’?

  1. I’m surprised that EU governments haven’t decided to conscript these new, mainly able bodied arrivals, giving them blue berries and training them to be a peace keeping force in their country of origin. Confined to military barracks the opportunity could also be taken to offer training inn practical skills such as the building trades and medical services which will be required when they are returned to rebuild their countries. Knowing that conscription is in place may well deter some from setting off in the first place.

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  2. This is a comment in the NYT today (a Lou Sassole) in answer to someone proposing the US and Canada open their doors to the migrants:-

    “I disagree. We need to protect ourselves. Our economy is far too fragile. This is exactly one of the major reasons that caused the fall of Rome. Mass immigration will be the death of us. We cant even afford the handouts we give people right now. Most of these people are mislims and they do not integrate well at all with other cultures and religions. They only want to spread Sharia law (its in the Quran). We already have a race problem and poverty. We need to fix ourselves first. I don’t want my pay check taxed anymore than it already is, and thats the only way to pay for them. We must prevent this from happening or we will be the ones crying. It will destroy our culture which built this great country. Europe is already doomed. Merkel betrayed them. We owe them nothing. You need to live in reality. ”

    I wonder how many Europeans share this view.

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  3. Excellent article John.
    I wonder how long it is going to be before we see some ‘serious’ trouble at Calais and the Eurotunnel. We are seeing just how powerful a large mass of people can be and ultimately only force can be used to stop them.
    While we are blessed with living on an island that is by no means a guarantee of security, as previous invasions have shown.
    Yes, Germany is one favoured destination but you can see by the number of migrants speaking English that our country is very high up their list too.

    One thing I can’t work out is why any migrants/refugees aren’t just given temporary citizenship of the UK with the proviso that when, hopefully, and eventually, the problem is resolved in their country that they can then return.

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  4. I said that yesterday, assuming OGH isn’t still censoring those who beg to differ with him.

    Lots of military age men coming: recruit them and post them back to Syria with western troops amongst them to add some backbone. This was the method the British Raj used to great effect in India; as long as you support them and make sure they have the technological upper hand and never get the idea they’re being hung out to dry, they’ll stay loyal.

    However once the locals still in Syria see how they get conscripted in Europe, they’ll cease economic migration in that direction.

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  5. I can still barely believe the utter stupidity of the Cameron government, they are calling for more bombing and yet this is the one thing that has contributed most to the current crisis.

    Cameron’s role as puppet of the neoliberal US hegemony is now brought into sharp relief – surely it is clear that the manufactured consent for this renewed bombing campaign is being churned out by the same cynical Merde D’och press that has brought us all so much balanced debate over recent years.

    The BBC now needs to answer some serious questions, they are very cleverly re-framing the news from a pro-migrant viewpoint. The most glaring example is that man who threw his wife to the floor in Hungary and then the BBC report that she ‘fell’ – this is blatant manipulation but sadly despite it’s crass and crude nature the Bake-off generation lack the ability to discern spin from fact and trust the BBC far too much.

    Peston’s stint on Newsnight was nothing short of a hysterical tirade – of course we know that Peston is a common purpose graduate and therefore serves a sinister EU-fundamentalist agenda.

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  6. It is something like 150 miles from Budapest to Vienna and it would take a fit person at least a week to walk from one to the other. Only the utterly credulous could imagine that those who set off on Thursday could arrive in Munich by Saturday – what we are seeing is a highly coordinated and deceptive media circus designed to accentuate the emotional blackmail which the neo-con warmongers wish to convert into an OK for more bombing in Syria of either ISIS or Assad and preferably both.

    I cannot help being reminded of the mythical tank column advancing on Benghazi which was the pretext for humanitarian bombing in Libya, which was quickly converted into air-support for Jihadis and the overthrow of Gaddafi with the inevitable emergence of yet another failed state run by increasingly violent head-chopping war lords.

    Somebody needs to ask our ‘leaders’ exactly how more bombing will reduce the number of refugees, other than by killing them in situ.

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  7. Send them to America they after all caused it all.
    Search YouTube for “wesley clark 7 countries in 5 years”

    On a slightly off subject point , can a smart journalist (are there any left) get an interview with ISIS , and while there check the V.I.N. number of those very smart Toyota trucks they all seem to drive in their mobile columns and trace the truck back to the factory , maybe they stole them from a dealership or maybe they were supplied by some organisation or country I would love to know.

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  8. @ Alexis, Isn’t that the plan? Most Western nations are influenced by powerful pro Israel lobbyists who encourage ‘Humanitarian Intervention’ in the Middle East, which invariably leads to chaos and displacement. This benefits them in two ways. Firstly the influx of refugees, combined with existing economic migration, erodes any social cohesion needed to resist a creeping corporate takeover. Secondly, the mass migration from Iraq, Syria etc. depopulates those regions ready for the expansion of the ‘Greater Israel Project’ – Am I being a conspiracy theorist?

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  9. I certainly don’t want to be in the pollyannish camp but I might be somewhat more optimistic about many of these Syrian refugees than the majority here. Whilst I am sure there are more than a few jihadis amongst them, and we all have plenty of homebred ones anyway, many of these people are middle class, doctors, engineers, computer programmers etc. They will integrate. They are not fundamentalists. Most Syrians are like Lebanese, business people.

    I had dinner last Friday with a bunch of old friends in London. One was retired from the Foreign Office. He had served all over the Middle East and Asia for over 30 years. He also has a Syrian wife (still very foxy in her 50s). They live in Ealing and Manila and the kids are totally integrated professionals, as is the bulk of the smallish Syrian population already established here, such as Assad’s wife’s family. Again, this is not to underestimate our huge integration problems which are largely related to Islam and a South Asian underclass.

    I agree the start of a solution is to break with US foreign policy and quit bombing countries into failed states. A policy which seems to me is driven by oil/gas politics, a desire to subjugate Russia, so that he is replaced by a Yeltin-like puppet, in order that China can be contained. Without peace in the Middle East, Europe will get 2-4 million migrants over the next 2-3 years. I am therefore pleased that Putin seems to beefing up his support for Assad, to make sure Russia has a say in whatever follows the present regime.

    Last week I also had a good experience when my windows were replaced by Homebase. On the apponted morning, half and hour early came two vans with a couple of 70 year old Sikhs and an English assistant. The Sikhs were amazing, clambouring up ladders and replacing the windows at a rate that the job took less time than expected. When I engaged them about my time in India they said ‘but we are from Kenya’. Great guys, more English then most of the natives – and they passed the Tebbitt test!

    I still support Farage and EU out but my main concern is the reestablishment of sovereignty.

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  10. Good piece but I wouldn’t be so sure the apparent sentiment in favour of refugees is genuine. The abuse you’re receiving is probably generated with the usual aims of trying to shut down the debate and divide people with accusations of racism. I strongly suspect public opinion is being manipulated just as it was before the general election, through biased media coverage and rigged polls. I’d bet the vast majority don’t want these refugees but for some reason the powers-that-be are determined that they are brought in. The questions are: Why and Who?

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  11. Clearly Orban has made more enemies by pointing out the inconvenient truth that these are not refugees but migrants.
    As for welcoming Germans, well I do recall a comment that Kenneth Clark made, while gazing at a potrait of Luther’s father, about the latent hysteria just under the surface of the German physche, a characteristic, he added in that wonderfully understated way he had, that had caused so much bother to Europe!
    I therefore reserve my judgement on the welcoming part.
    As for being labelled a racist for criticising Islam, at least you know that the critic is either truculent or obtuse or maybe both.

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  12. These people do not want to integrate. They want to build a new caliphate in Europe. They show this by their contempt for European compassion. On the border between Greece and Macedonia when offered free food parcels they refused to take them. The boxes where from the Red Cross Organisation and had a red cross printed on the box. They also gave the ‘one finger salute’ a signal of support for ISIS

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  13. I’d guess Toyotas are from 1 of the gulf states who’ve been supporting proxies in region.
    Cock up / conspiracy, well both. Bone headed lunacy on all sides undoubtedly, though the input of the pc/pinko left seems minimal whilst the idiot yank who doesn’t want “his taxes” (which have already paid for drones/bombs) ameliorating situation seems more problematic.
    If the UN was an effective organisation how many correspondents here would be asserting it to be a take over bid by one elite or another ?
    I can’t disagree with much of Mr Ward’s “realpolitik”, no one has covered themselves with glory.

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  14. There has never been any point trusting in crowd thinking. Twitter is indeed a pit for that reason. Back in the day of Jesus Christ, the crowd demonstrated the reliability of crowd thinking. He rode into Jerusalem to shouts of “Hosanna “. Three days later they were shouting “crucify him “. People in a crowd don’t want to think so there shouldn’t be any surprise when they display stupidity.

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  15. Germany is doing a very shrewd thing in welcoming the refugees from war torn Syria, they are adding ‘consumers’ and primarily working age people to their nation.

    They successfully incorporated East Germany into their economy and still have a very successful economy albeit one accused of being too export orientated.

    It is very unlikely anywhere near 800 K refugees will be absorbed into Germany in the next 12 months anyway.

    I suspect there would have been an outcry if many children were noted in the 100 plus mile trek out of Hungary.

    Orban has made several crass statements period and if building a perimeter fence is evidence of having a balanced view. I for one need a value judgement reset.

    Turkey the seat of the Ottoman empire is a country that still is secular despite Erdogan

    Do remember that upwards of 2 Billion of the 7 Billion people in this world are supposedly muslim.

    Yes I am a refugee/displaced person from birth albeit a British subject from birth and arrived in Brtain some 70 years ago in nov 1945.

    Further I was born a christian and have Bishops and my grandfather was or still has a plaque in Westminster Abbey (too meanto pay £15 to enter).

    The world has been built on migration and do remember Britain was the greatest exponent of going to other peoples lands and exploiting them for Britain’s economic gain.

    To deflect the argument that Britain gave India backbone and gained by British colonisation India was the number 2 in world wealth in the 16th century when the Brits started seriously migrating and influencing power there it was an economic basket case when Britain left in 1947 just after India supplied 2.5 million service people to fight in Britain’s war and do not forget the Churchill excaberated famine that caused several million Indians to die as Indian grown food was diverted to Britain leaving, the ‘backboneless’ Indians to perish.

    The Indians if they are backboneless as Bob R would have us believe were overepresented in VC’s rather surprisingly oris it residual superioty that still rears it head.

    It is thought, if you believe any forecaster that India will be t number 2 in the world by 2030

    That is this week’s rant off my chest.

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  16. Meanwhile ‘Ekathimerini’ reported yesterday “Lesvos and other islands in the Aegean Sea, such as Kos, continue to be inundated by arrivals at the rate of more than 2,000 a day, according to port police.” …and we had some nice BBC News footage of another 2000 migrants getting off a ferry in Athens last night. Barbed wire fences across the border between Serbia and Hungary or not…that would appear to be the present daily number of migrants arriving in Greece daily and then heading North.

    Without wishing to parody too many of my German friends…one can almost hear Angie & Co saying ” Ja !…ve haf now reached our planned German quota number ….So how dus vun turn the vluddy thing off ?? “.

    Having visited Western Romania last week, I have seen first-hand where the Danube is a very wide often steep sided river with hardly any bridges…mainly only in cities like Belgrade in Serbia that span both sides of the river. This would make it very difficult to cross elsewhere. Thus, if Hungary really succeeds in sealing its border to migrants travelling up from Serbia, then “For what Non EU Croatia and ‘Schengen Area’ little Slovenia are about to receive…..etc. etc.”

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  17. Might you perchance, means “berets”?

    While entirely agreeing with the rest of your post, I would be surprised, but delighted, if it worked. These people are not refugees; they are cowards, running from countries that are awash with weaponry. If my neighbourhood was threatened in this way, I (or someone better qualified) would rapidly become a local security commander (or a “warlord” if you prefer the leftie insulting version) and prepare to defend the local territory.

    IS terrorists are simply bullying thugs who haven’t met a decent fighting force yet.

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  18. Don’t always agree with you but both Saturday’s & today’s posts excellent.
    Does seem AM’s open invitation to all to come to Germany is slowly being rolled back & I wonder whether the Hungarians will again be stuck in the middle – on one hand told to enforce Dublin rules & then blasted by the media when they attempt to enforce it. The media will push for the “beggars” to be “choosers”
    Also see the predominance of young “single” migrants but perhaps the explanation is simply that they are sent by the family & once they get permanent resident status they bring the family & extended family. Did hear a couple of guys saying they had left wife & children behind. The family provides the funding. ( exactly how I came to be UK born 60+ years ago as my mother was sent at 4 years old to Glasgow from Ireland to live with Aunts who had left Ireland before & were then settled)
    Not 100% sure of the Immigration law on this but think there is system to bring family later.
    That would suggest 10,000 today will be 20k or 30k plus in a few years.
    JW’s perspective on ease of assimilation of different ethnic groups is , I believe , shared by many but rarely mentioned by most as it just invites abuse on any social media site. Thus the average response on your blog is not “pretty atypical”

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  19. My thoughts go way,way,waaay back, to Farage’s >they’re not migrants, they’re refugees< rant.
    Credit to where it is due.

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  20. We can’t tell the do gooders the truth. These fit young men should be fighting for their country, not helping themselves to west european generosity. If they are so skilled – what can you tell me about post war Syria that was so cutting edge and marvellous. Answer – nothing. These people will get eu passports and roam around looking for unskilled work, thereby upsetting indigenous populations and creating trouble.
    Then Turkey joins the eu – God help us, let’s open the whole of Arabia to the stuffing EU. This circus is run by and supported by ignorant morons.

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  21. Lord Clarke’s statement re German psyche seems pretty silly really, speaking as 1/2 south african 1/2 german 1st generation Brit.
    Viktor Orban is just another demagogue / strong man manque of a depressingly familiar type + you may as well attribute his 60% support to Hungarian hysterical psyche/paranoia re ottoman empire. I do remember Fidesz party being initially funded by the likes of the late very unlamented David Hart fwiw.

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  22. Oldnis What utter tripe! sat in your chair,no real choices to make other than ideological ones,These are not cowards,even in the great wars their was still more civilians than combatants,when whole nations were geared to war,coalminers,mariners,textile workers & farmers as well as many other civilians worked for the war effort & many of their families were made homeless or bombed.Only idiots believe a army or any force would get far & not lose even any modest gain without such help,is quite frankly deluded.
    So unless everyone has a gun & enough armoury (i wonder where that going to come from) & it’s to the last man standing their cowards according to you,well your just a bloody idiot.

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  23. & unless your Genghis Khan,Vikings or have the good will of the people for food & water & shelter any medium size group will fail, small groups might make it peacefully & large groups by force

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  24. I was under the impression that to become a refugee you need to declare yourself as such at the first country you come to ie. Hungary. Here the ‘refugees’ are passing through several countries to claim their refugee status which in the UN’s eyes surely must be unlawful…

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  25. Very Christian of you,your more frightened of them “multiply & taking everything of us!” well maybe if we returned what we took of them they would be happy to stay & since safety & trading freely is the latest asset removed from them maybe that is were we can start!

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  26. JdeV, Lord Clark did state it as a personal opinion. In fact the whole series of Civilisation was presented as a personal view. He had a pretty good grasp of history and art history and as such was, in my opinion, offering an informed opinion.
    As for Victor Orban and the Hungarians, well at least they are drawing on a relatively recent experience compared to the Arabs justification of the Crusades for their anti West stance.
    Even if Orban is , in your opinion, a depressingly familiar type of demagogue, is he right or wrong when classifying the recent arrivals as migrants rather than refugees?

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  27. The Saker has a good piece on this, and points out that the bulk of the Syrians coming to Europe now are no longer fleeing from Syrian war zones; they have been staying in Turkey, and it is Erdogan who has started the ball rolling. His motives are complex and in any case are probably steered by the US; the very same folk who are paying the ‘people smugglers’. It is very certain that a significant number of jihadists are among them, part of a deliberate process to hurt Western Europe which the US deep state has always seen as a satrapy and potential competitor.

    Je ne suis pas Alyan, pas de tout.

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  28. I agree,but are they claiming refugee status from the EU,not individual countries & then moving on,after-all on entering Britain at say Calais,would it be wrong for them to move to Wales,Scotland or passing through any English County to another etc it is another EU problem when states are reduced to format of administrated counties?

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  29. You can not blame Hungary for its actions. After the treatment they received from Muslim Ottomans in the past, they wont want to fill up their country again with Muslims. Germany may seem generous taking on so many refugees but I suspect they have another motive, namely their demographics cliff arriving soon. Make no mistake about Syria, it was a manufactured war started by the west to oust Asad so they can get a gas pipe supply route from the middle east into Europe to shaft Putin.

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  30. OGH is an acronym for Our Gracious Host.

    From JW as there seems no reply to reply to this for some reason.

    Yes Bob, I had a feeling it was aimed at me. That is untrue and a disgraceful slur: I ban people who troll, insult other threaders, use foul language and that’s it.

    So, final warning – with no ‘disagreement with me’ element involved to cloud the issue: one more crack like that and you’re out. As you say, I am the host: don’t evacuate your bowels on my carpet.

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  31. Hungary offered these migrants refuge and refugee status which they refused as that would have stopped them going to countries they wanted to migrate to in the first place. The stupidity of schengen has come home to roost and the failed politicians who ru the eussr the unelected commission have no clue what to do.

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  32. The U.S. and U.K. were doing that back in 2009, although they were sent back to destroy the fabric of the country. The ‘backbone’ was allegedly provided by NATO S.F. I doubt the Syrians need medical training or help with construction. Perhaps not funding and training terrorists who then go on to wreak such destruction might be a better idea, but it is not one that seems to have occurred to the P.T.B.

    As former French Foreign Minister Roland Dumas put it… “I was in England two years before the violence in Syria on other business… I met with top British officials, who confessed to me that they were preparing something in Syria. This was in Britain not in America. Britain was preparing gunmen to invade Syria.”

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/04/europes-refugee-crisis-and-the-depraved-morality-of-david-cameron/

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  33. It wasnt long ago people were being whipped up by the media at the prospect of folks leaving this country to fight the fight in Syria. “Dont let them back in” , “Confiscate their passports” were just a couple of the usual lines. They could come back well trained in weapons and increased hatred of our ways and norms was the worry, not just for normal folks, but for intelligence services apparently, trying to keep tabs on this increasing phenomenon. This latest caper rather makes all of that seem small fry, a load of old trollocks perhaps?

    And dont get me started on the chap in France on board that train armed with an AK47 ,300 rounds and some angry Yanks attached to his face, that all seems a distant memory now.

    I’m all for helping folk in need, because perhaps I might need it myself one day, its a Karma thing. Considering the risks and dangers we have been bombarded with for the last 15 years, I would’ve thought safe havens were the way to go? Instead this move makes a mockery of everything we have been told in the past, security rendered obsolete. This is the clearest indication tey that the UK government must follow the orders of its EU masters, with national security seemingly an irrelevance.

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  34. Correct Jackie
    It’s the new Sturm Abteilung Nazi approach. I had an American boss for a couple of years who used to say, “Eat sh*t, forty trillion flies can’t be wrong”.

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  35. @the ghost: Quote “Oldnis What utter tripe! sat in your chair,no real choices to make other than ideological ones.”

    I have done seven years in the British Army, thanks. Have you?

    “(i wonder where that going to come from) & it’s to the last man standing their cowards according to you,well your just a bloody idiot.”

    The whole middle-east is awash with firearms. That’s where the weapons will come from. Cut the ad hominem rubbish. You are just making yourself look stupid.

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  36. For some reason, when I reply to an individual comment, the reply seems to vanish into the aether at present. Does anyone have an explanation? (I am assuming that this explains why Oldnis’ reply to the ghost is at the end of the thread rather than being under the relevant comment.)

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  37. PaulC
    I was thinking along those lines earlier today. There appear to be far too many conspracy theories proving to have more than a modicum of truth to be simply ‘theories’. I’ve always thought that the last thing the Yanks wanted was for Europe and Russia (as natural geographical neighbours) to cosy up to each other. Could the mess we’re in now be a cunning strategy for Washington to remain dominant top-dog?

    So: Get our useless European leaders to ostracise Russia, by imposing sanctions which only hurt Europe and not the U.S.A. Having opened Pandora’s Box in the Middle East, open a second chaotic situation in the heart of Europe i.e. Ukraine.

    What better to get an exodus of refugees (with whom I greatly sympathise) flooding (broke) Europe, and thereby keep the whole European continent in check and under Washington’s dominance.

    Just a thought…or am I being unnecessarily cynical?

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  38. 100% correct! But ‘Our Dave’ is now wanting to ‘fix’ Syria via the air-strike route once again. What could possibly go wrong?

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  39. IP
    Sadly, I don’t think it’s down to simply ‘utter stupidity’. Cameron, as do most of our great European leaders do – obey Washington’s commands.

    EU-fundamentalist agenda = Israeli-fundamentalist agenda perhaps?

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  40. I want to apologise for not rating stories on a regular basis. I consider this one of the 5 star sites in the world and it is why I come here. I have no higher rating.

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  41. That’s happened to me a few times (though not always) – I suspect it’s some improvement in the blogsite software.

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  42. @ Oldnis
    Nice to read a sturdy comment from someone with real experience, not just a big mouth government jobsworth.
    I get a lot of stick from the ghost which I can ignore because he obviously hasn’t any real life experience of anything.
    Whatever anyone may say, this is a very deadly serious situation building up, brought on by leaders with no vision or understanding of their rabid textbook indoctrination, and it will end in tears for sure.

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  43. Unfortunately John, you’ve fallen foul of the left liberal religion.

    I wonder how long it will be before the Germans give all the non-Syrian ‘refugees’ papers and the right to travel wherever they like in the EU?

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  44. @HR
    As so many have endlessly pointed out, since Islam is not a race but a political ideology, it’s incorrect to accuse critics of racism. I’m just waiting for some brave lawyer to justify this in court some day. On the other hand, to have a phobia about Islam is certainly justifiable given the atrocities perpetrated in its name, not just today but throughout history.

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  45. Off topic but worthy of note. Camoron has now joined the big boys, Obongo and Hollande, in getting his own ‘kill list’. Just think how these slime balls will sit around the table in shirt sleeves with their security vassals deciding who to bump off today and joking about it at the same time. ‘There’s one for Oldham and now for Birmingham. Better get High Wycombe next’. At the same time preaching, we don’t do torture and don’t believe in the death sentence. Makes you want to vomit all over their Saville Row suits.

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  46. Since he is against ISIS and against Bashar and our NATO allies are bombing the Kurds (whom we provided with machine guns), ‘Our Dave’ could have a problem finding anyone in Syria to ally us with.

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  47. @phantom
    You accused Oldnis earlier of being “a bloody idiot” and this is far from the first time you’ve insulted others you disagree with. Given JW’s rules, you ought to be banned but I guess you have an exemption. However, to address your comment, it seems perfectly reasonable to be “frightened of them multiplying” with all the repercussions that entails, since that’s exactly the declared “mindset” of Islam. Read up on warnings by Gaddhafi and Boumedienne for confirmation about the conquest of the West via the wombs of Islamic peoples.

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  48. @OAH
    Couldn’t agree more – (with the vomit-inducing bit). The ‘rule of law’ is just an obsolete inconvenience to these psychopaths. I suppose it was inevitable that the modus operandi of organised crime would eventually be publicly embraced by the most efficient organised criminals of all.

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  49. @DE Without wishing to name drop, I had a lot of fun at school with John ‘Woody’ Mellor as Joe was known back in those distant days….and being also of a rebellious nature, I shared many a long Saturday morning detention in his fine company !!

    …Somewhere I have the B & W negs of us singing on stage together in the School Play …..maybe there are not so many of us Sloggers who have sung on stage with Joe Strummer !! :)

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  50. Not so long ago, 2010 in fact, “Chancellor Angela Merkel declared the death of multiculturalism in Germany, saying that it had “failed utterly” , in what has been interpreted as a startling shift from her previous views. The German leader said it had been an illusion to think that Germans and foreign workers could “live happily side by side”.

    “We kidded ourselves for a while that they wouldn’t stay, but that’s not the reality,” she said at a conference of the youth wing of her Christian Democratic Union party at the weekend,. “Germany should … get tougher on those who refuse to integrate before opening itself up to further immigration.”
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-germany-multiculturalism-failures

    Something made her change her mind …………again.

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  51. The UK will accept up to 20,000 refugees David Cameron has told MPs.

    The Prime Minister’constituency in Oxfordshire has not housed a single asylum seeker since 2008.
    George Osborne’s constituency of Tatton, in Cheshire, is home to just one refugee whilst Windsor and Maidenhead, represented by Home Secretary Theresa May, houses a mere four.

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  52. Hats off to you.
    The Clash don’t get anywhere near the credit due them for the kind of music they were making back then.
    That video would probably be banned as being anti-Semitic if it came out now.

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  53. And Cameron lying his little head off once again.
    Parliament voted against air strikes but, we thought we would ignore that and bomb them anyway.
    I think, FFS, how much longer are people going to put up with this? And then, I know the answer…

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  54. I don’t know if it has ever occurred to Cameron and his cabinet cronies, but ISIS may quite easily be sending ‘refugees’ (i.e. their soldiers) to the UK, to form a sleeper cell, and then initiate terrorist attacks within the United Kingdom. How are the immigration authorities going to be able to weed them out ? He is naive and stupid. Britain will sink under the weight of all of them. Maybe he wants the DSS and NHS to collapse under the pressure, so he can privatise them both ? I’m glad I’m out of there.

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  55. If you open your doors they will come. Would’nt you?

    If the European economic pie is NOT increasing and this seems to be the case then each person’s wealth will be slowly stripped away with the added burden.

    This along with the cultural differences will only mean that as JW says Merkel is creating big problems 10 or 20 years down the line for the Germans. Historically the German people have demonstrated to outsiders that they are not easily conquered.

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  56. First class article JW full of statements of fact rather than racist comments, [as no doubt will be alleged] but naturally the PC brigade will judge any opinion or sensible viewpoint as being racist. It’s quite wearisome.

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  57. Canexpat/ kfc

    Yes, but if they hadn’t started it someone else surely would have? Whether or not the people who did this imagine that state assassination can in any way serve our best interests, and leaving aside all moral considerations, they are surely certifiable lunatics. I am utterly speechless and feel casually and cynically betrayed. Surely, we deserve better than these suited jackals.

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  58. Alexei Calling people cowards because they have not picked up weapons & fought for their neighbourhoods,when he has no evidence of what these people have actually lived through ,knowing full well that they aren’t in a position to offer their side of the story is Cowardly & from someone who served 7yrs in the army & therefore witnessed the Falklands those cowards for not taking up arms,The Balkans well anyone serving there knows that the refugees were far from cowards for walking away. Am afraid Alexei i don’t like people who take one idea often there own & implant it into a situation as the true mindset of all peoples let alone just a few,i notice you don’t pick up on Him calling them cowards,keep backing cheap shots who never expected someone to call them out,i will always defend 1 those misrepresented 2 those that can not defend themselves 3 those that want to but their mindset into others without reply
    I hope you don’t feel abused because it’s not my intention but don’t give it out to those unable to defend themselves & not expect it back

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  59. Even if they can guarantee to weed out any Jihaids (they can’t) there will also be a lot of angry young men who are sore about the Western complicity in smashing up their country in order to get one over on Bashar al Assad.
    Just as in Iraq, whilst Saddam was no nice guy, you won’t find many Iraqis who are glad that the Us came to ‘liberate’ them.
    Either way it’s going to be bad news in the long run, on top of the fact that we cannot employ or house our indigent population – there will be a second backlash once the humanitarian frenzy dies away.

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  60. JW I don’t care anymore. There are too many predators called human beings on the planet and the Central Bankers once they adopted Keynes woud mean YOY migrant increases, refugee or economic migrant it is the same, THEIR ECONOMIC MODEL.

    Anything less is a contraction and why Cameron is a lying son of a bitch and we are already at 300K per year you watch 5 years in it will be 500K. That figure is chosen because the Labour lot escalated the inflationary rate way to fast 10 year, 7 year soon to be 5 yer. Why I think Cameron and his children need hanging because unless you meet force with force you lose!!!! The increasing rate is 1 thing, basically we are not paying down the deficit fast enough and TBH we can’t we are too far gone.

    That’s why stagnation occurs if we even remain with the same level of immgration at 200K, oops now 300K a year, not enough.

    I have no future in this world and got to admit dealing with neocons is pissing me off, be you Vodahone or somebody else you are parasites and the USA neocons like McDoanlds are even worse.. In my mind only one thing remains now … death anything else in my mind is a failure.

    Carney, Osborne, Bojo all know this and their only way to deal with it is through a totalitarian state, but even there system cannot deal with the cancer it only attempts to cut off bits before it spreads. ‘If the whole system is cancerous chopping bits off is a waste of time better to party with the little time you have left.

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  61. I also met him once, briefly, when touring with Ian Dury & The Blockheads as back-line roadie and driver for the support band (Basement 5) in 1979. He stopped by to see Richard Nother/Dudanski, ex 101ers etc. I just wikied him and found this:

    (Rock The Casbah)
    The song was chosen by Armed Forces Radio to be the first song broadcast on the service covering the area during Operation Desert Storm. In one of the campfire scenes late in the 2007 documentary Joe Strummer: The Future Is Unwritten, a Granada friend states that Strummer wept when he heard that the phrase “Rock the Casbah” was written on an American bomb that was to be detonated on Iraq during the 1991 Gulf War.[11]

    Following the terrorist attacks on 11 September 2001, the song was placed on the list of post-9/11 inappropriate titles distributed by Clear Channel.[12] In 2006, the conservative National Review released their list of the top 50 “Conservative Rock Songs”, with “Rock the Casbah” at No. 20, noting the Clear Channel list as well as frequent requests to the British Forces Broadcasting Service during the Iraq War.[13] Cultural reviewer and political analyst Charlie Pierce commented that “the notion of the Clash as spokesfolk for adventurism in the Middle East might have been enough to bring Joe Strummer back from the dead.”[14]

    Sadly missed.

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  62. @ phantom
    NO, if they are genuine refugees, they should not even be entering Britain from Calais, as you must be well aware by now according to EU rules (which neither the EU for France have upheld for YEARS). Since they are already in a safe place, safe from whichever area they have fled, they have no grounds for insisting on getting into Britain but it’s blatantly obvious why they keep on trying.

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  63. they are a disparate lot anyway so where will you house them. They won’t integrate with each other let alone the rest of the population. First it’ll be turf wars,then in 10-15 years civil war. Utter folly

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  64. Agree 100% with all three of you (and OAH above). A dangerous line has been crossed by U.K. Govt., and as OAH implies, how long before droning ‘terrorists’ and ‘NVE’s) begins within U.K.?

    I read that North Dakota has passed legislation allowing ‘non-lethal’ drones for local police forces: “…House Bill 1328 explicitly forbids lethal weapons aboard police drones, but allows stun guns, beanbag rounds, tear gas, and other “less-than-lethal” weapons to be fitted onto unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs)…”.

    Coming to a place near you soon I’ll wager…

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