From the archives:The head of the Remaindeer herd was a coward in 2012, and he’s a coward now.

camswim

That sinking feeling

Reasons for Brexit now stand at 192

Me22616The Remain ‘pitch’ has just four rationales: we’re safer in, we’ll be all alone outside, we can reform it from within, and Cameron has effected a reform package to recommend to the British People. These represent disinformation, scaremongering, nonsense and a lie respectively. Since 2012, The Slog’s dedicated page on reasons to leave the EU has built up 192 solid, grounded reasons based on fiscal, libertarian, democratic, economic and geopolitical observations. The piece below is from January 2012. It’s familiarity should act as a sobering reminder that the case to stay in the EU is still, five years on, based on flimsy negativity.


 

Britain and EU opt-outs: let’s face it, our Prime Minister is a coward.

David Cameron looks more like a hologram with every day

In yesterday’s Times was yet another of those special pleas made on behalf of the UK by David Cameron – we’ve had the Financial Transaction Tax opt-out rationale, now for the Human Rights opt-out argument. Next stop, the Fiscal Union drama.

Now like Cameron, I think the FTT is a daft idea, the CoHR is a lunatic asylum of pc, and Fiscal Union is never going to work…if indeed Merkel makes it even that far. But instead of constantly wanting to opt out of the stuff that goes with being in the EU, why don’t we just get out?

This is becoming a hoary old issue, but I do think it’s time it was put in this way: David Cameron constantly needs to opt out of EU hubris because he lacks the balls to get out of the Union. I can tell him from personal experience, the markets at the moment – on both sides of the Pond – may say nice things to market researchers, but the good ones don’t give the eurozone a hope in Hell of surviving. So that’s one reason not to be in: they clearly don’t know what they’re doing, and pretty soon they won’t have a currency zone in anything like its current form.

Democracy has all but disappeared across the Channel: Four people – Merkel, Draghi, Schauble and Sarkozy – are calling the shots, and that’ll soon be down to three…perhaps even two. So there’s another reason to leave. The age demographics of Europe (and its pension liabilities) make it the worst trading bloc for generating consumption. Here’s a fourth reason: we don’t want their currency and they don’t want ours – and being half in half out is the worst of all worlds. Fifth: the rich thrifty north will never fit with the manana spendthrift south. Six: it cost £118bn a year to remain a member. Seven: We just paid out £37bn in the last eighteen months solving other people’s economic problems. Eight: we have a trade-gap of £58bn with the EU. Nine: don’t hold your breath expecting any help from this shower when brown things hit the fan here later this year. Number Ten, the Brussels bureaucracy is full of corrupt, self-serving nonentities. Like I say, there are always ten reasons.

The EU always was and always will be a Franco-German club wherein the French ignore any rules they don’t like. The debt crisis the EU faces now is a direct result of that mentality. The fact that we weren’t allowed in before 1970 also supports the view: only the decline of Gaullisme gave us an entry ticket…and only then because they saw les Mugs Rosbifs coming.

To say our future is ‘inextricably linked to that of Europe’ is an argument without foundation in the geographic, demographic and economic senses of the word. We are chucking good money after bad here: how can anyone in their right mind argue that a trading bloc the failure of which has frozen our economy solid for the last three months is where our future lies?

The Prime Minister and his colleagues in Camerlot are not real europhiles: they’re agoraphobes. The only thing we have to fear in leaving the European Union is fear itself. This is the problem we face as a nation. Our leadership Establishment consists largely of cowards who talk a good game about ‘British greatness’, but don’t actually believe a word of it.

The Compleat 192 getout factors

52 thoughts on “From the archives:The head of the Remaindeer herd was a coward in 2012, and he’s a coward now.

  1. Defeatist arguments. We are a great country and we should be aiming to spread our greatness to the rest of the EU, not making enemies of our friends across the Channel and disparaging their nations, as the Leave side has been doing throughout the campaign.
    And if you’re going to rerun articles, Mr Ward, let’s also have the ones you wrote mocking Farage and UKIP before the last election, as well as all the ones lampooning Murdoch and the Barclay Brothers, who you now quite happily count as political bedfellows.

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  2. The Gravy Train in full swing…

    Remember Baroness Warsi who said she was switching from Leave to remain because she didn’t like the leave campaign? We all asked ourselves why would someone so suddenly change their feelings and beliefs on EU membership just because of the way a campaign was being fought.

    Well guess who Kinnock wants as an EU Commissioner?

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  3. 10 reasons JW, but 1 one that is equally important for both sides.

    If the undemocratic EZ wants half a chance at surviving it has to be all in or all out no elites in the middle playing both sides.

    That means no BOE and no pound and once in no matter how bad it gets you cannot leave and frankly the EU declining overall as it is now it is going to get far, far worse. Once upon a time it was 30% of world trade Cameron for all time. All the /sarc comments can’t be bothered with but a word of warnign for elites you better be prepping for a fight because

    “their defender was democracy and they decided they did not need those services anymore so no more preeching democracy for tomorrow it leaves these shores”.

    Pray it does not get worse, but I think it will and a first though BREMAIN Turkeys voting for an EU XMAS that will one day come.

    Glad I will never have grandchildren like Cameron because you will have to defend them I just daily grow older and realise it has been a con job but feel in the end every single one of the UK population will get its come uppence with interest and no, no sympathy for either side.

    First step has to be to get the UK economy in the EZ, ignore its debt etc., the size of the EZ needs to expand to backstop £55 trillion in deutschebank derivatives.

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  4. Tom : “We are a great country and we should be aiming to spread our greatness to the rest of the EU, …..”

    If after 45 or so years, Britain “should (still) be aiming to spread that greatness”, just how long before there will be any achievement in that respect, in your opinion ?

    Liked by 3 people

  5. We can be friends with Russia if we leave. A better argument would be to shut down NATO and kick America out of Europe. The Ukraine situation might end up like Korea and go on for years.

    Liked by 6 people

  6. @TOM

    Again more bile and junk, not worth the time of day TBH but it does allow be to crystal clarify the only reason to vote tomorrow may many more read it and decide.

    Their has only ever been one reason to BREXIT all other issues are not relevant because one issue allows you to moderate all the rest but without it you cannot moderate any.

    DEMOCRACY

    So you as BREMAIN agree with a non democratic appointed EU commission? Wow … gobsmacked … you just sold out all those who have ever died to achieve and defend your right to even present your unintelligent argument through two world wars, through everything. The stability the EU lacks now is this lack of democracy, the inability to listen to an ever growing number of people right across the EU and growing. The UK may be where it is now, but other populations are feeling the same but not yet figured out that without a democracy you can’t contribute. Only enslaved to BUILD THE FANTASTIC EU EMPIRE to a grand design of others without your input it can never yours.

    Now go demand democracy of Merkel, not for the UK but for the rest of europe please so we can build a better future.
    Tip here … don’t ask Junkers he twittered the response you would get if he would even talk to peoplec of out serf level.

    You will be given the response ——>>>> DENIED maybe even _ _ _ _ OFF.

    If you get democracy I will immediately flip to BREMAIN but you will never get it to the point and Junkers clarified it yesterday, Prime Ministers need to stop listening to the complaints of their people … that is to ignore democracy when 51% suffer they should be able to stop the suffering no?

    You are a joke really, the BREMAIN referendum is relying on this democractic choice yet you want people to sign up to something where this kind of thing doesn’t happen how dumb is that?

    Liked by 3 people

  7. Tom

    Purely out of interest, do you use shoelaces or velcro? I only ask because your attempts to tie things up in knots are really very feeble indeed.

    Liked by 4 people

  8. Leave is screwed though it pains me to say it. Judging by the ” bennie boiler” applause for Remain in last night s Wembley debate the majority wish to remain snugly cocooned in the subservient status quo . Not for them the rigours of uncharted waters. Leave has itself to blame . Too many chiefs with too many egos consumed by internecine squabbling in the name if personal ambition.

    It will be 55-45 in Remain s favour. Unless you ve already postal voted ignore the poll booth tomorrow. Your vote will make no difference.

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  9. @Tom

    “Defeatist arguments. We are a great country and we should be aiming to spread our greatness to the rest of the EU, not making enemies of our friends across the Channel and disparaging their nations, as the Leave side has been doing throughout the campaign.”

    Perhaps our ‘greatness’ has more to do with the progressive ceding of power by our elites over the centuries due to the constant pressure of revolt from below and the recognition by those in charge that small concessions towards some semblance of ‘democracy is preferable to bloody revolution. The prospect of swinging from a lamppost seems to concentrate elite minds wonderfully. Yes, our present elites have undermined most of the gains achieved in the last couple of centuries concept through their control of mass media and Bernaysian brainwashing, but the prospect of reform remains if the UK remains a sovereign nation. Sorry to repeat the same metaphor, (or is it simile?), but to change the path of a hijacked UK trawler is much more achievable than to change the course of the banker controlled supertanker the EU has become.

    Liked by 4 people

  10. @ Tom .. disparaging which nations ? the EC is not the countries themselves and that is the crux of the problem . It is undemocratic , incompetent , unaudited . YES UN-AUDITED , and people moan about Deutsche Bank . Being anti -EU is not the same thing as being anti-European , far from it .

    Liked by 2 people

  11. “Of course we are not satisfied with the European Community as it stands today. I do not know anyone in the Community who believes that it has reached its final form, or indeed its perfect form. The whole nature of the Community is that it should constantly change and develop according to the changing needs of its peoples. It is not a Community of the Governments for the bureaucrats – it is the Community of the peoples and for the peoples of Europe.” (Ted Heath Prime Minister 1973)

    Interesting references to bureaucrats …. and it being of and for the peoples of Europe!

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  12. @ Balanchine
    They’re two different people. One lived in Leeds with his wife Doreen (nee Barrow) and the other still lives in Birstall with his wife Doreen (nee Bailey). Birstall is a small town and lots of people know him there.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. angelteuton

    Nice try but you’ll have to put that cigar in the fridge; even the BBC recognises that the volume of support at the Great Debate was noticeably louder for Leave – having watched a bit of it, I can confirm that.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. @ Mark Deacon 8:41 am, exactly right democracy, all else flows from that, all problems are solved via that, all traitors are exposed by that.
    And hows about a referendum on capital punishment. No prizes for nominating T. Blier.

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  15. The loudness of the clapping is easily manipulated by soundmen who record the programmes, this issue has already been highlighted by a retired soundman, and he felt this was the case, so do not believe everything you see and hear unless you are actually in the audience and can witness this for yourself, they will stop at nothing to make you feel it is a lost cause.

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  16. I think we can safely assume there will be no Brexit, even if it was 51% for leave, it would be deemed to close and ignored, it would have to be at least 60%+ for there to be any consideration to leave and I’m not convinced even then we would get to leave, concesssions would be made, it would have to be discussed they could drag it out decades and then they could have another referendum because things have now changed and people should be able to re-think their previous decision. And that’s not taking into consideration fraud.
    So, what’s next for the UK?
    No more B o E.
    Lose £
    Hit the iceberg and sink?

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  17. There will be tactical voting on Thursday. The SNP might have noticed Ruth Davidson’s performance, and vote Leave to give CMD a problem. What remains of the Labour vote in the North of England may also follow suit, in part. The 4 million UKIP voters at the last election are going to vote. The core non London Tory voter is , for the most part, sick and tired of the utter failures of the 2 PPE Tory posh boys, who are no more competent than their Labour predecessors. I have it, on good authority, that the sole Libdem voter in the UK, a Mr. Farron, is also going to vote, tactically, in a vain attempt to revive Mr. Ashdown, on his next appearance in front of Andrew Neil.

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  18. Tom, they are our friends and will remain so, even if we leave.

    It is your type that disparages our once great nation and people and are the direct cause of the decline.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Checking into NSA-friendly Faecebook a shocking number of old schoolmates don’t understand it and want “Remain” that is scary.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. It is interesting to watch the manipulation going on around us to convince the wavering voter that “Remain” has it in the bag. I note an article on Zerohedge and a television interview I watched on Bloomberg this morning. Both relate to the odds being made by betting shops. These indicate a 76% chance of “Remain” winning, whereas the polls reflect a closely run race. As the bookie speaking on Bloomberg stated, ” The odds reflect the weight of money being bet rather than the number of bets being made”.
    Indeed as the Zerohedge analysis shows, if you look at the number of wages being made, the 62% of bets being made are for exit.
    So a smaller number of larger bets are being made for “Remain” changing the odds and the headlines to “Remain” in front.
    Cui bono? Well, within finance and game theory more weight is now being given to public betting odds as a reliable predictor. Knowing this, unscrupulous persons could:
    1) Place some large bets to convince market participants to buy assets as the odds of exit recede thereby allowing them to place shorts at more attractive levels,
    2) Place some large bets to demoralise the “Exit” camp.
    My gut feeling is that it is an attempt to goose markets higher so as to allow better levels to short. Time will tell.

    Liked by 4 people

  21. Guy is a PR man for the Brussels project, he is a Prime Minister in name only. A little birdy told me that thanks to the Lisbon treaty, Britain will be obligated to join the Eurozone with all the trimmings by 2025. If this is the cas and I’m yet to verify it with my own eyes, then why hasnt Brexit made a point of this in the face of Remain lies?

    Liked by 1 person

  22. I think your number one reason is the most likely, for far from being demoralized, the poor odds would make most brexit people more determined to vote come hell or high water. I was working out the odds as % earlier on and they didn’t make sense compared to the polls so abandoned it as a pointer.

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  23. A quick note from an American lurker…..

    I can’t imagine anyone wanting to remain, and am hoping all the undecideds are struck by lightening tonight and vote for leave tomorrow. Best of luck to all of you, because you all deserve better than the fleecing you’re getting from Brussels.

    Liked by 3 people

  24. fernleygirl

    Your wish of a lightening strike seems quite prescient. Apparently a day of thunder, lightening and torrential rainstorms are forecast, particuarly for the London area.

    God’s wrath upon the heathens. Hopefully.

    Liked by 1 person

  25. “Democracy in Britain down to the weather” “Election REDO due to rain” “Brexit vote wins the day” “Parliament in extended session” “Democratic result of election ignored” “Cameron says; ‘We told you not to vote yes” “millions of new votes for stay counted, changing outcome” “ID cards required for all services” “Register with EW genetics department to determine where you will live” “We’re coming for your blood”
    Some of these might not be in tomorrow’s news, depending on the news you review and their opinion on the news.
    Anyone else recall when journalism rejected any story that had subjective opinion?

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  26. @To the ghost

    The same to you and in the end this was (hope not) what democracy was supposed to be about.

    @ Wulfric

    The BREXIT has focussed on seemingly the only issue “immigration” and not around anything else. News up now is that talks are to be held with the Kurd killers (Turkey) within days of the referendum but Cameron will not answer questions on this subject. The EU seemingly has no rules on what constitutes good or bad although it does know what not democratic and corrupt means seeing as they hit them every time.

    Good luck all,

    If BREXIT it will be tough but we will have self governance and a little democracy left to use.

    If BREMAIN I know many mean well or are afraid so can’t hate you for that.

    For those who don’t vote … cowards the worst of all worlds just because you couldn’t be bothered.

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  27. As a Hungarian, I have no business interfering with the decisions of the UK electorate, but this is a historical moment for all of us.

    Self determination is a human right, a national right. Do not let this be taken away from you. The EU is likely to fall into agony if the UK leaves, but still, Brexit would not only stand up for the honor and rights of the UK and her citizens, it would also give the EU a window of opportunity to reform itself. If it fails to do so, it will disintegrate all the sooner.

    Do not miss the historical opportunity. Please.

    Furthermore, as Paul Craig Roberts says in http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/06/22/brexit-what-is-it-about-paul-craig-roberts/ :

    “Wall Street understands that the defeat of Brexit means a shortened lifespan for London as a financial center, as it is impossible to be a financial center unless a country has its own currency and central bank. As it is impossible for the UK to be a member of the EU and not operate under the European Central Bank, once the Brexit referendum is defeated, the process of gradually forcing the UK into the euro will begin.

    The other powerful interest is the interest of Washington to prevent one country’s exit from
    leading to the exit of other countries. As CIA documents found in the US National Archives make clear, the EU was a CIA initiative, the purpose of which is to make it easy for Washington to exercise political control over Europe. It is much easier for Washington to control the EU than 28 separate countries. Moreover, if the EU unravels, so likely would NATO, which is the necessary cover for Washington’s aggression.”

    Please!

    Liked by 2 people

  28. Thanks for the link KFC.
    I apologise for taking up a lot of Slog Space but I think at least part of Craig Roberts blog is worth repeating here:

    “Opposition to Brexit is based on two powerful interests of Washington.

    One is the interests of the New York banks and Wall Street to eliminate the UK as a financial center competitor. This blatant fact has escaped the notice of the City and the Bank of England.

    The British have forgotten that they only have one foot in the EU, because the UK was permitted to keep its own currency. The UK does not use the euro and, thus, retains the power to finance the British government. Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, France, Germany, etc., do not have this capability. They are dependent on private banks for financing.

    In order to trick the UK into joining the EU, the British were given special privileges. However, these privileges cannot last forever. The EU process is one of political integration. As I reported years ago, Jean-Claude Trichet, at that time the president of the European Central Bank, said that to complete the political integration of Europe, the fiscal policies of member states would be centralized. It is impossible to centralize fiscal policies if the UK is an independent financial center with its own central bank and currency.

    Wall Street understands that the defeat of Brexit means a shortened lifespan for London as a financial center, as it is impossible to be a financial center unless a country has its own currency and central bank. As it is impossible for the UK to be a member of the EU and not operate under the European Central Bank, once the Brexit referendum is defeated, the process of gradually forcing the UK into the euro will begin.

    The other powerful interest is the interest of Washington to prevent one country’s exit from
    leading to the exit of other countries. As CIA documents found in the US National Archives make clear, the EU was a CIA initiative, the purpose of which is to make it easy for Washington to exercise political control over Europe. It is much easier for Washington to control the EU than 28 separate countries. Moreover, if the EU unravels, so likely would NATO, which is the necessary cover for Washington’s aggression.

    The EU serves Washington and the One Percent. It serves no one else. The EU is a murderer of sovereignty and peoples. The intent is for the British, French, Germans, Italians, Greeks, Spanish, and all the rest to disappear as peoples. Brexit is the last chance to defeat this hidden agenda, and apparently the British will vote tomorrow without having a clue as to what is at stake and what the vote is about.”

    Liked by 4 people

  29. someone on face book asked what happens to the votes of those registered to vote but don’t turn up. I assume nothing but they suggested otherwise.

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  30. just to put the icing on the cake today we see tax dodging short arsed irish twat BONIO telling us to remain???? yesterday david beckham, how do you spell eu david?(hat tip zerohedge). day before geldof, i rest my case. thank christ after today no more multi millionaire luvvies giving us the benefit of their vast intellect/insight. good luck to all of us and may we be an inspiration to our friends in france, netherlands, spain et all. atb cc

    Liked by 3 people

  31. @ Peter 5:53 pm, An air exclusion zone now ? Never mind by R Day + 1 the Princes will be redundant.

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  32. Tom
    This really is an illogical and inaccurate thread.
    The EU is not remotely interested in our viewpoint and never was. There isn’t a shred of evidence (least of all from Cameron’s risible pre-referendum attempts) that the EU wants reform.
    I do not and never have liked Farage or UKip, and you are quite wrong to suggest I ‘happily’ count Murdoch or the Barclays as bedfellows, political or otherwise….any more than you like Mandelson, Hunt, Osborne or Harman.
    You seem to have but one argument: “Look at the people on your side”. It’s not a wise one to adopt given your fellow-travellers.
    As for defeatist…hah. Oh dear.

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  33. Tomorrow I will be voting to leave the EU.
    Much as I want us to leave I sense deep down that the vote will go to remain.
    Hopefully the vote will be fair and if it is then I will be okay with that.
    The most important thing in my opinion is that after so many broken promises that we, the people of the UK, have been finally given the opportunity to decide if our future lies within the EU or outside it.

    May the best side win.

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  34. Be alert for Voting Fraud tomorrow everyone!

    I say this because a few elections back I turned up to vote at 9.30pm, gave my name and address as per the course and my name was already crossed through as having already voted.

    I made a fuss but was told it was an “administrative error” but I also noticed that according to their list > 80% of my neighbours had also already voted. When I asked my neighbours whose names were crossed through if they had voted, four of them said they hadn’t and that they never vote. Nothing I could say would convince them to complain, but if they didn’t vote under their names, who did?

    Who stole my vote? Because let’s face it, someone turns up, gives their name and address, the person behind the desk picks up a ruler and scores through the name. Not much scope there for “administrative error”. I also asked why if Britain votes under Secret Ballot why they record your ballot paper serial number against your name as they issue it and was told it was for “audit purposes”, I made them copy the serial number already recorded against my name and wrote to my Returning Officer who said that as they believed it was an administrative error, cancelling it would only deny another elector their democratic choice.

    Be on the lookout for “administrative errors” tomorrow folks because if there are five “administrative errors” in every street in Britain and they all “err” the same way, it wouldn’t be too hard to steal an election..

    *** the people behind the desks in polling stations are Temps. Who’s to say they aren’t also political activists on a mission?

    Liked by 1 person

  35. What a supreme irony it is that tomorrow a large proportion of the UK population will be exercising their democratic right with the specific intention of weakening it; one can only hope that their number is insufficient.

    Liked by 1 person

  36. @Hiero

    It is certainly distressing that my U.K. friends are almost uniformly (and apparently unthinkingly) pro-Remain. They consider me to be a loony conspiracy theorist who is unhinged from reality while they unquestioningly swallow the lies of the Guardian, Independent and BBC. I often wish I had chosen a different colour pill as conversations, (but perhaps not walking :), would be so much easier, As it is, I spend considerable time biting my tongue for fear of alienating those I care about. I am hoping that I am correct that Brexit is the right choice for their children’s future and that enough of the U.K. public has awoken to the bankster/Neocon agenda for the E.U. to put a spanner in the works. As a lifelong pessimist I still retain some hope that the result is Brexit and that the PTB are exposed for the venal chancers they are.

    Liked by 1 person

  37. Straight from the horse’s mouth. Major blow for Cameron as EU boss tells PM: “There’ll be NO MORE REFORM IF YOU REMAIN”. (Not my words, those of Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the European Commission). Last chance people; if you don’t get out now, you’ll be literally ruled by corrupt, un-elected bureaucrats, that you can’t get rid of, forever ! When there are no available procedures in place to remove people in positions of power, it is inevitable that tyranny and group dictatorship will be the result. It will probably adversely affect me, financially, but I don’t care. UK…you need to get out while you still can. Vote BREXIT !

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  38. Well Good Luck Britain. Take the Red Pill and swallow hard.

    I want what most of us on here want but think it will be remain.

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  39. If I had my way, every person who votes “Stay” today would be given (or, perhaps, forced to buy) one of those plastic steering wheels issued to fretful youngsters faced with a long car journey. If we vote to leave it would be a constant reminder of just how much say they would have had over the EU’s direction had their appalling short-sightedness won the day; and if they win, they would be forced to wear it all day anyway because I’m a spiteful old b*gger :-)

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  40. Mark Deacon
    Surely its not cowardly but just as democratic to decide that you don’t know which way to vote and show maturity in not voting,as it is to be ignorant and vote anyway to be seen to be doing your duty!particularly since many see it has jumping from the frying pan into the fire!
    They know which ever way it goes they will focus on making the best of it,just like those on the losing side should!

    Like

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