I must confess to having felt a sense of hopelessness on seeing this from two entirely well-meaning people on Twitter today:


Just to deconstruct this brick by brick,

  1. Show me one sign that the ‘package’ brought back from bristling Brussels-am-Berlin by Dave ‘Oily’ Camshaft showed an iota of willingness on the part of the EU to reform
  2. I don’t know of a single citizen with the Vote in this referendum who is “sniping from the outside” at the EU, given every one of them is in the EU. That’s the problem
  3. Can a reasoned critique of the vicious, mad and utterly unsuccessful ClubMed austerity campaign (with overt carpet-bagging by corrupt MEPs in Greece) really be called “sniping”?
  4. Does the EU track-record of response to democratic objections suggest a mildly confused but  fair organisation, or a ruthlessly fascist élite devoted to ignoring anything its citizens say?
  5. How can the Left vote to remain in a SuperState openly admitting that the signing of the TTIP global trade agreement with the US will involve no consultation whatsoever with MEPs or Member-State governments?

I’ve asked the same sort of questions of the Waspi leadership regarding its equally bizarre belief that the Dark Knights of Camerlot will be persuaded to cave in on pension justice as a result of politeness and choral anthems.

I’m at a loss here. Help, somebody. Anybody.


  1. JW, you have precisely defined the root of the problem. The mindless parroting of brain dead clichés by well meaning people who do not want to rock the boat.


  2. You’ve pretty well nailed it there, JW – except you know no help is coming, except perhaps unwittingly from the leader of the world’s Greatest Democracy.

    Hope springs eternal.


  3. Hi John, I’m with you on this, we’ve just got back from a week in the UK.
    Every conversation I had there followed the same line, all slag off the EU, moan, moan, moan, but, the vote well that’s different.
    I think they are all institutionalised slaves, leave the door open and they won’t go out.
    I give up.
    For me, they deserve whatever they get, spineless apologists, bulldog spirit, don’t make me laugh.
    As long as they can go to the shops and watch the crappy telly they are OK. Bread and circuses, always works.
    Thank goodness we left all those years ago.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. Probably referring to things like the Diem campaign for democratisation set up by Varoufakis rather than any CameroonCapers … well meaning but a dead duck if you’ve read Owen Jones’ The Establishment


  5. Jeremy Corbyn made his first pro EU speech today at Senate House. This was the Ministry of Truth featured in George Orwell’s “Nineteen Eighty-Four’. The place responsible for lies and propaganda and the deletion of inconvenient documents.
    Until recently, Mr Corbyn’s website carried an article in which he wrote that the EU was “directly responsible” for “the gross abuse of human rights and theft of natural resources”. The article has since vanished.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. KFC1404 that’s a little ungracious we really are talking about a vote which is the nearest we’ll have to voting for jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire!for many this is all they see! there is as much chance that on leaving the EU we end up with total anarchy and in a worse position,as in John outcome in which we have total anarchy and a good outcome!
    obviously some will play on that fear! and some will under estimate that fear,for me change will happen quicker outside of Europe but am not going to say it will be for the better!or worse! just i believe the time for change is more important, than no change at all! but stupid doesn’t come into it!

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Wait a moment…

    couldn’t (4) be better written as…

    Does the British track-record of response to democratic objections suggest a mildly confused but fair organisation, or a ruthlessly fascist élite devoted to ignoring anything its citizens say?”

    or (5)?

    How can the Left willingly remain sane in a Nation State openly admitting that the signing of the TTIP global trade agreement with the US will involve no consultation whatsoever with MPs?

    Britain is – and always was – the test-bed/Guinea-Pig for the corporatization of Europe. Your lack of democracy, the power of the corporations and banks in Britain is what the rest of Europe will look like in fifteen years time, given the America’s wishes.

    Just remember who funded Hitler. The US and German corporations… not exactly the perfumed waft of democracy from either of those parties, is there?

    Liked by 3 people

  8. JW re Hepworth s last point . I think she means sniping from the outside AFTER we ve left — though why we would bother as we would no longer be members beats me.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. The Left blames all the ills of the world on the nation state, i.e. nationalism. Therefore the left has always supported the NWO made-in-USA project of the EU, in which ancient countries are reduced to administrated “regions”…not even USA style states with state rights. SYRIZA is so besotted with this vision that it preferred to sacrifice Greeks to slavery than give up The Dream.

    This is the nice way of putting it.

    Liked by 2 people

  10. ‘I’m at a loss here. help, somebody.’FWIW, in the south east, at least , Vote Leave appears very well organised in every significant town. Will Straw’s BSE disease is nowhere. If there was a Richter scale for ‘enthusiasm’ about the respective causes, which is what controls turnout, Craig Oliver would be telling CMD, ‘Houston, we have a problem’.


  11. If the twerp elites are unable to close down Libya and any other leaky pipes by june 23 – there will be an unexpected and large vote leave result in the referendum.


  12. Unexpected, and large because Italy, Greece , Hungary and Macedonia will all be leaving as well.


  13. I have complete faith that there are enough sensible people going to get off their a*ses and vote Leave.

    Here’s another reason-
    I haven’t seen a MacIntosh Red apple in years. They came from Canada as far as I recall, and I suspect thegood ole European Union said we couldn’t have ’em any more. Vote Brexit and get back Canadian flour and Mac Reds.


  14. @Tiptoeing on eggshells: I can’t imagine the UK getting away with leaving, let alone ayone else. There is no exit mechanism, never was, because they don’t intend to let anyone leave.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. As some of the more seasoned Sloggers will know, I am privileged to be able to visit many “Household Waste Recycling Centres” (council tips to thee and me) during my peregrinations about the SW of England. Some of you may remember the chap who emptied a bin of broken glass in the Garden Waste bin because “it’s me greenhouse”; some may also remember the young lassie who struggled with a double mattress and slung it, with a triumphant screech, on to a pile of grass clippings. When asked by the site operative why she had put it there, replied, “’cause it’s green, OBVISSLY” while pointing to the sign which said, “Green Waste”. What – I can hear you chorusing – has this to do with Yurp? Well these people and many others like them will be casting their vote on 23rd June. To say that I am not filled with joyful anticipation of an overwhelming plebiscite wherein the EU is told to go and interfere with itself would be to slightly understate matters.

    Liked by 3 people

  16. A grubby, tin-pot dictator like our Dave is already flouting the referendum rules, subverting democracy. What makes anyone think that van loads of votes will not go missing and fire alarms won’t burst into song during the count? Dave is a well seasoned snake who will stop at nothing.

    Liked by 2 people

  17. It’s the fear factor, leaving the familiar for the unknown, wanting to belong to the Big Boy’s Club. Most Brits lost their bottle when they sold their souls for security and comfort years ago. They simply don’t understand that rights and freedom are fragile things that have to be continuously fought for, or lost, and cannot safely be left in the hands of their duplicitous leaders.

    The most “reasonable” (i.e. not rabid) main radio news channel here across the pond (NPR, National Public Radio) has just aired a debate on its main political programme on Brexit and unsurprisingly, 3 out of its 4 “experts” were pro-EU. At least the one anti-EU spokesman for the Bruges Group, Robert Oulds was very informed, articulate and passionate and I daresay made a few Americans think twice about what is involved.


  18. No one believes they will be Greeced until it happens. But how do you talk to someone that saw it happen to a member of the club and belive it won’t happen to them as a member of the same club. Conflict of interest perhaps?
    The Goldman Sachs crime family that runs the EU and has provided Euro Counties with most of their non elected leaders (and catastrophies) has the most MONEY to lose in Brexit. So they are against it. Tells you everything you need to know.


  19. Same old argument from stupid people … voting yes without reform is the same as saying WE ARE HAPPY AS IT IS AND DON’T NEED NO REFORM. People are so stupid … speechless really, those so called intellectual people who are “dumb as a box of rocks”.

    Where is the laid out plan for reform then? Where please point me so I can go an view it because so far their is never any intention of reform. Reform alright, Dave is just not saying which way, more of the rubbish and less of the restoration of self determination “ain’t that right Dave”. So he is promising reforms alright … just not what you think.

    Out of all of this when will people ever wake up to the fact the elite / political class lie to get what they want and make promises they have no intention of ever keeping. Get it written down so we can charge them later, but no the elite political classes words are so honest and true … bullshit! Go ask big YES MAN Dave Cameron for a written list of the reforms that if not duly fulfilled we get to apply penalties to Brussels like they would do to us. The paper is blank … or did the pen run out as it always does, the point is neither there is nothing on it.

    Not going to happen … so you sign up, walk down the path, I would wave you goodbye if I could be left behind, but not going to be allowed is it? So forced to take all the torment my population signed me into for the rest of my life … well that’s kind of you I do hope to repay the favour some day and the torment I would enact will be magnitudes greater.

    As an example on how to do it … good faith now, just ordered some stuff from China, no not expected to cough up the full amount yet but a token amount paid, more a show of intent and what do we have from the EU? Nothing … for the fnal time there is no intent of reform their never was, hence you have none of this intentional behaviour.

    Throw the dog a bone it will wag its tail, no bone not wagging the tail then because to many timea the dog wagged the tail and got nothing.


  20. Because the alternative is worse – a country that would turn in on itself and be hostage to a poisonous clique that don’t want to cooperate with any nation but merely want to dominate and ruin. You can see that in the constant trouble-making and stirring from the Leave campaign – I wouldn’t want them running the country, that’s for sure.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. Sorry if slightly on a tangent. I asked the following question to my social media friends earlier and have not yet received any reasonable answer, I hope some of you avid sloggers may enlighten me?
    “Can anybody explain how the EU vote will work? What happens if the vote is Leave? I find little information about how this would actually work..
    What happens if the vote is Stay?
    Just asking…”

    Is the decision made and is this just a charade?


  22. I read Count Lambsdorff ,EU Vice President is saying Dave’s special status deal that he cleverly negotiated isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.


  23. My quandary still remains that of “who do I really want to be ruled by, since sovereignty no longer exists in a ‘global’ world?”

    I can stay with Europe and get pushed into wage slavery by all the ex-Goldman Sachs technocrats who now rule most European countries right now, or I can vote leave and end up in exactly the same neoliberal capitalist mess by letting Goldman Sachs rule us directly through the ‘special (financial) relationship’. Either way I am damned.

    Goldman Sachs have most to lose by our leaving Europe and that is why Commerbund and Frogsporn are merely following orders from their proxies the City and that is the way the media lobbying will continue to play it.
    The fear campaign strategy certainly worked here on the poor misguided Scots who were too ‘afeart’ and feckless to take the plunge. I am afraid the same will apply with the English.

    If it is ‘leave’, I shall probably emigrate to Spain anyway as my granddaughter will become an Eu ‘alien’ and get kicked out along with all the other ‘foreign interlopers’ (she is only 1/4 British so no longer British, having been born in Spain to a UK mother who too happened to be born in Spain and thereby only 1/2 British – but still just enough Brtitish- , being the daughter of a Spanish mother, despite her being already a UK citizen through marriage to me 40 years ago. Funny how xenophobic the Brits are about their culture and origins re. ‘continental types’ and how the rules of ‘nationality’ quickly change with the lunge to the right.

    If ‘John’ finds it rational and reasonable to live in France, then I’m sure I can do so in Spain.
    Time to let the Brits sink or swim by themselves, methinks … they are too far from the shores of mutuality to survive either way.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. If brains were gunpowder, there are thousands of idiots who wouldn’t have enough to blow their hats off. I blame Jeremy Kyle and Hello magazine.


  25. @WMBM

    It works like this: if the vote is Leave, all hell will break loose and things may improve at some point; if the vote is Stay, all hell will break loose and things can only get worse. Any public discussion of the logistical consequences of either scenario is unlikely to be forthcoming from government, who can only publicly proceed along their chosen path, no matter what Sir Humphrey is contemplating in the Strategic Planning Dept, which is now of course contracted out to G4S. If it’s a charade, it had better be a good one, and they’re very expensive, otherwise the price could be astronomical.


    In for a penny, in for a s-quid?


    She’s always acting up, that one.

    Liked by 2 people

  26. One problem is that self identified people of the left don’t know what the left is. Which is understandable because there is no left anymore. The old left-right political continuum is outdated, defunct. The entire culture of let’s call it the West including the political culture is now neoliberal, wherein the ‘market’ is God.

    In this specific case, as if the market of ideas will reform the EU. Winged pigs still could not fly.

    Now you may refuse to bow down to the new God but you will not convince others to stop their worship.


  27. The situation Greece was / is in can only happen to countries in the eurozone. It couldn’t happen in the UK as long as we have our own currency. It’s as simple as that


  28. Probably 75% of our mongrel population do not have the werewith all upstairs to vote for anything. Watch REMAIN win the day. We are so asia and africa gened up and we just want MORE!!
    I’m now thinking forget my precious inherited good judgement and FIGHT FOR MY COUNTRY. Forget that now.
    Let the house, go sunshine native, shouting I’m British, OVER HERE NOW, so BRING IT ON YOU CONTINENTAL TWERPS AND GIVE ME MY RIGHTS NOW!!

    Liked by 1 person

  29. In Tinsel Town, everything players say is said FOR someone to achieve some purpose. It should never be interpreted literally, as no player in Tinsel Town is authentic other than in their rampant pursuit of fame, wealth and, if they are a male heterosexual, bimbos.

    I’ve struggled to understand how politics, either in the UK or in Brussels, is any different.

    Would someone enlighten me please?!


  30. Well for those of you who thought the Americans would keep out of it – oh, are there any of you at all??

    No! The President himself is going to intervene in the referendum. It’s a little like the “slip” the Queen made just before the Scottish referendum that tipped it back… the powers know how sheep vote, and why. In Africa, the tribesmen vote as their chief tells them; why should the British be any different??



  31. Tom,
    the alternative is far better. Once we are out we can then deal with the thieves and crooks that we currently have running the show in the UK. An out vote is the first step in taking back control of our country,
    You can see from the lies, scare stories and propaganda put out by the stay campaign that things will remain exactly the same. These vested interests are only concerned about their loss of privilege.
    To stay in is to ask for more of the same by the EU and our own elected filth.

    Liked by 2 people

  32. The outcome of this referendum has already been decided. All we get between now and the vote day is all just theatricals to appease the masses. Present company excepted of course. They did not build this thing after wars and decades just to give you and me a piece of paper that could begin to reverse their marxist project, and the total subjugation of all by banking and corporate interests!

    Liked by 2 people

  33. I will be 54 yrs of age come this Monday and I have know learnt that most people either in authority or any position of power are
    “INEPT” you only have to spend a short while ready the news or even just going about your day to day life to realise that this is the case. We have NO more grown ups in charge just a bunch of gobby and thick halfwits who put themselves forward for election, (because lets face it , they are unemployable) and that we call a democracy. Never mind Liz is 90 next week. Dear God or Nothing is this it? Beam me up Scottie, Please.


  34. @WMBM
    1)If we vote leave, the EU Oligarchs will be here in force the following day to a deal on our terms. This is because the EU would fail on a number of fronts without us. On trade: They couldn’t possibly do without our ongoing annual Trade Deficit of c£100 billion, on top of losing our net anual contrbution of c£8.5 billion.

    2)If we vote stay, we will have given the signal for ‘deeper-in’ to begin, deeper-in will include adopting the Euro and being its saviour.


  35. Mike i agree we will be offered better terms! and Bojo Gove etc will then feel they have a mandate to hold another referendum and take credit for this success! i can only think that the referendum was brought forward to establish a Bojo govern before the next election using new policy,to win the next election,to only revert to type once the deed is done! it will be up to the public to keep demanding a NO! means No! attitude to i get even more concessions ii to actually leave it! but all this will be very disruptive!



    More worried about those that can’t see their own psychopathy.

    To paraphrase & ruin a good quote:- “In a world of the psychotic the most psychopathic are nearly invisible”.


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