HERAFrom UK unemployment stats to the Greek goddess Hera: what’s the link?

Here are three verifiable and widely accepted sets of UK employment stats, from which the part vs full-time overview has been extracted:
From the end of fiscal 2012 to the end of fiscal 2013, UK job vacancies rose by 8%, but part-time vacancies rose by 18%.

In the period 2008-14, a miniscule 2.25% of all UK jobs created were full time – that’s 1 in 40.

From New Labour’s accession in 1997 until near the end of the Cameron coalition, those people working a full week of 45 hours fell from  26% to 19%. Comparatively speaking, that represents over a quarter fewer full-time jobs in just 17 years.

There are no political points being scored here, because this is no longer a political issue. I would say that any politician who denies these realities is a liar, but the point is socio-economic: the neoliberal emphasis on shareholder returns first and foremost ensures that costs will be cut, jobs moved offshore to lower-cost labour regions, and automation employed to eradicate labour costs completely over time.

These factors seen together point conclusively at one indisputable (in truth, obvious) fact: until Britain moves away from its adherence to the financial neoliberal form of globalist capitalism, the number of people in full-time, contractual, adequately rewarded employment will continue to decline as a percentage of the workforce in total.
If one accepts this – as most sane citizens accept that the planet is a sphere and has just the one moon – then the preferred economic system of the Western half of that planet (also being adopted to a frightening degree by emergent nations in the other parts of it) is doomed to failure. The reason is just as obvious as the economic modus operandum of neoliberal economics: shareholder returns and consequently infinite stock market share price ascent need persistent repurchase cycles fuelled by unaffordable personal credit in order to be maintained.

The biggest problem on the planet already is unaffordable debt at the commercial, sovereign and consumer levels. And as long as real disposable consumer income is shrinking, growth through either replacement or novelty cannot mathematically be delivered: it is quite simply impossible.

The system has only survived this long via using Zirp + QE to provide cheap money – that banks can make a margin upon, and multinationals can push to the bottom line. Suffering as they are from declining export sales (as incomes shrink) Western sovereigns have done two things: first, borrow excessively from their own citizens, Asian tigers and even their own government institutions; and second in the more recent term, cut the costs of defence and welfare provision for their citizens.

The other remaining options open to the Western elites are higher taxes (which only reduce consumption ability further) and theft of fiat currency using the laughable concept of ‘bail ins’. Variously across the developed world, both these routes are clearly on the table….with all the legislation required to steal and tax ready and waiting to be used. At the end of that process, we are again however left asking, “So who does the consuming vital for neoliberal economics to function?”

The socio-cultural ramifications of these inevitabilities do not bear thinking about: a foul combination of self-obsessed media programming, hitech gadgets and workless lives has already destroyed most of the community mutuality of the West… and multinational retail giants like Walmart and Tesco have accelerated the process. Add a workless life to those elements, and crime, clinical depression, drug usage, and yes even welfare costs must rise: for there is no difference at all between two million unemployed getting £25 a week, and four million unemployed getting £12.50 a week.
The Camerlot ploy in the UK is to shift unemployed people into poorly paid part-time jobs, but this too is a dead-end policy: as long as automation remains dynamic, free EU labour movement endemic, and the goal of Friedmanist growth, a bust at some point is inevitable: the goals and the realities are antithetical. As I’ve written before:

The aims of neoliberal economics require low wages at work at the same time as having high wages to consume

It’s a nonsense – an inescapable illogic. So why do I say this is not a political issue?

Well, in the government elites of the US, UK and EU, there is no challenge being overtly made against this form of capitalism: both representatives and functionaries in all those territories long ago decided to take the money from corporate rather than citizen sources. The history of Western Party donation shows very clearly how disenchantment with petty politics led to starvation of Party organisations in the 1966-96 period.

So our use of this crazy, dysfunctional system is not a political issue in the West: with the exception of some ClubMed countries who’ve been on the receiving end of its savagery in recent years, there is a consensus ie, there is no alternative.

Only Greece thus far has an elite giving the opposing view; Spain is perhaps on the verge of that…and look what a hammering they’re getting from the gargoyles.
In the UK, only the Greens oppose globalist neoliberalism…but they can hardly be called part of the elite. All the rest – Labour, Conservatives, Liberal Democrats and UKip – may talk a good game here and there with distractive pc laws, but their leaderships accept the system without question: not to do so, they feel, would render them unelectable.

Many in the Labour Party would dispute this among their membership, but I cannot see how they rationalise that: the Party is rock solid behind the EU, despite it being the worst free-speech bully on Earth. Labour too wants to build millions more houses, but says nothing about community failure in the Midlands and North, or how we can cut the trade deficit by being more self-sufficient. The Party’s senior figures talk about immigration as if it was to be welcomed on a multicultural basis: what is the matter with these people – do they have no mathematical, spatial or economic perspective at all?

Over the last ten days or so, I have been posting regularly about the cultural, the financial, the economic, the social, the civic and the Constitutional aspects of Britain’s blindness to its problems. Before and during the recent election fiasco, I tried to stress the essential need to cooperate against conservatism as expressed by Camerlot policy scams. But that time has passed.

The game has moved on to the survival of our citizen rights, and the protection of those infrastructures and communities that belong to us – not to fat bureacrats, political lounge lizards and rapacious Bourse-obsessed, tax-evading multinationals. We need a powerful but apolitical movement now to assert the Sovereignty of the People; and the first step, I would suggest, is to focus on getting a grown-up electoral system devoid of monied  influence…. a system, dare I say it, that would bring the desperate and the disillusioned back to the polling booth.
Hera was the Greek Goddess of love, marriage, respect for women and community


  1. you are so right to say there is no political solution to the death spiral of global capitalism. it is a grand ponzi scheme doomed to collapse. at the moment we have life and this system is sucking it All out of us. the only option we have is to repudiate all debt. total repudiation of even the idea of debt. its anti life and if we continue it will end most life on the planet. debt itself is the poison we cannot live with. it is the eventual cause of nuclear war… dump debt anyway anyhow and never borrow again..


  2. Unfortunately the disappearance of permanent employment is a trend that won’t be stopped. Politics and economics has little to do with it. Automation and robots will take over more and more of the tasks that currently occupy humans. Even cheap third world labour is being replaced by robots.

    Optimists claim that new jobs will be created. But this is the first time that intellectually capable machines have been created. New jobs will mean new robots being created for them. The world will have to face the problem of what to do with all the unemployed. We can’t all be artists, poets, musicians, hairdressers, etc. (Jobs that we think robots won’t be able to do).

    A Basic Income for everyone and lots of entertainment seems appropriate. Wars also are possible, but robots will even be better at that than humans.

    This is a time of change sweeping across the world.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. political lounge lizards and rapacious Bourse-obsessed, tax-evading multinationals.
    I can’t think of a better expression.


  4. Spot on BillK. When the L.A.W.S. are fully functional so the armies will be fully redundant, and the navy and the air forces. People are just not going to be needed, well, not the masses, robots will do everything for those that can afford them, the rest? extinction, or a living foraging in the forests or where ever they can scape together enough food and water to feed themselves.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. I’m with BillK on this one – the Luddites had it right and if only we’d listened to them….

    Automation/technology is seen as “cheap” (for shareholders or whatever) because many of the costs are ignored or externalised. Examples:
    The cost of unemployment as machines replace humans.
    The cost of pollution.
    The ever-increasing cost of ever-scarcer resources.
    The cost of the debt needed to finance new technology.

    The biggest problem facing the world today isn’t debt – it is that humans are hitting numerous Limits to Growth and in the process destroying the ecosystems and atmosphere that we all rely on to survive.


  6. +1 for a basic income.
    See what will happen to the transport industry once driver less cars and lorries become the norm.


  7. the reason we need continual growth and need to destroy our environment is so that we can continue to service debt. just stop servicing debt and we do not need continual growth….

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Desmond, BillK and various others say that there is no other way, that we are stuck with the current system until it crashes and burns. They may well be right, but there is another way which was set out by E.F. Schumacher in his 1973 book “Small Is Beautiful: a study of economics as if people mattered.”

    I think it should be required reading in schools and for all politicians and economists.


  9. Nice twist Rowan…never miss an opportunity to add a little green spice poison to the mix. FYI price of oil has tanked, price of coal…tanked, price of gas ….tanked. Reserves….up. and the planet has never been greener. Also,planetary temperature plateau for 18 years and 9 months and the Greenland ice sheet is growing.


  10. The Present: The coming conflict with Russia & China, or is it all charades? The coming world financial & societal crash.
    The ongoing debilitation/depopulation tactics of geoengineering/Chemtrails, vaccines, processed food additives etc.
    The US EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) has caused more deaths than Hitler, by ‘banning’ DDT, through malaria.


  11. The future: http://www.wakeup-world.com/2014/08/05/agenda-21-the-plan-for-a-global-fascist-dictatorship/

    Fun & Games for the 1%s. Dire austerity for the plebs: The Hunger games is where they’re herding us.

    From what I’m reading lately, transhumanism is an endgame, & judging by the number of adverts I’m seeing featuring nubile young females looking part human, part machine, who knows?

    Look out for the pdf explaining Agenda 21 in the above article. From the good people at ukcolumn.org it names the UK politicians on board with this diabolic plot.

    John Doran.


  12. As for driver less cars/lorries ,always a mystery to me why mass transport was abandoned by the railways many moons ago, I suppose it caused a lot more economic activity re employment/vehicle sales/fuel/taxes ect. Good piece John..


  13. One thing I reserve the greatest contempt for is Luddite Malthusian Chicken Little The Sky’s Falling We’re All Doomed bedwetters. These people would still be squatting in tree branches eating bananas.


  14. King of Malthusians, though Malthus was falsified hundreds of years ago, is Paul Ehrlich, who co-authored a 1978 book with John Holdren, Obarmy’s “science czar”.
    It’s the pure Nazi Eugenicist/ genocide schmear: to avoid famines huge depopulations would be necessary; forced sterilisations; forced abortions sterilisers in food & water, you get the picture.

    The famines never happened. A hero named Norman Borlaug rolled up his sleeves, engineered a fast growing cereal, & saved a billion lives: http://www.agbioworld.org/biotech-info/topics/borlaug/special.html

    What the control freak coward bed-wetting murderers forget to factor in is human industry & ingenuity.

    The Limits to Growth was another bed-wetter tome, written by the Meadows couple, featuring dire predictions long out of date,
    & based on the same computer generated crap models upon which IPCC global warming/climate change faux science is based.

    John Doran.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Santa needs new data….
    A) Right through the 80s and 90s world oil prices averaged around $20 per barrel. We are nowhere near that price. High cost of energy is one reason why world finance is creaking – we just didn’t plan for oil, gas and coal to cost what they currently do.
    B) Reserves mean nothing if the finance isn’t there to produce them. Available reserves now are some of the hardest, most costly, to produce – all the easy-to-get-to stuff is gone. If the financing isn’t available, all those reserves get demoted to resources. Energy availability is all about the production RATE, not about how much we pretend is out there.
    C) Global temperatures have not plateaued – 2015 is still the hottest year YTD ever recorded – go see Tamino over at OpenMind for good statistical discussions – also, the standard Denier temperature chart that gets trotted out to “prove” this point actually has a HIGHER average temperature for the period shown than do properly shown temperature charts (i.e. with ALL the available data included to calculate the trend). Cherry-picking your start point is not good science. See here for more.
    D) The most important measure is ice VOLUME. If the ice is melting off the land and onto the sea, the sea ice AREA will increase, naturally. You are presenting a Straw Man argument. The VOLUME loss in Greenland and Antarctica is increasing year on year.

    You say I lie – I say you present standard Denier rhetoric that has been debunked over and over and over again. If your arguments are not based on facts, you are actually presenting Propaganda.


  16. JD – there is a wide range of options between “sitting in tree branches eating bananas” and “destroying jobs in the name of progress and technology for the benefit of the select few”.
    Perhaps you would prefer NOT to be warned of potential impending problems? Perhaps you think we should ALL bury our heads in the sand, saying “it’s not our problem, nothing to do with me”? Perhaps you think disaster SHOULD strike before any preparatory action should be taken?
    Rather than have a sensible discussion about whether the benefits of technology outweigh the (currently ignored) social costs, though, you would prefer to share your “contempt”. Nice.


  17. Malthus was not “falsified” – he discovered that at the then-current rates of population growth compared to the then-current agricultural production growth there would be a problem in the future. Do you think he should have kept that to himself? Not said anything, so no-one would be prepared, would look at what could be done? Could it be that Norman Borlaug worked so hard BECAUSE of Malthus???

    The Limits to Growth study has been updated twice now, and the original predictions made back in the 1970s are tracking pretty well. The model used for Limits to Growth and the models used in climate science modelling are not the same; you show your ignorance when you make stupid statements like that. Go look up the World3 model, then compare it to any of the numerous climate models out there – you might actually learn something.
    A report on the 40-year update to LtG can be found here – others are available if you actually bother to put in the time for a quick Google search…

    Global warming is NOT based purely on computer models. Computer models didn’t even exist when the basic mechanism (that CO2 traps IR radiation) was first proposed over 150 years ago. Global warming is based on well-understood physics combined with millions of observations plus experimental data.
    The IPCC does not actually do any science of its own – it is an international body set up to produce regular summaries of the current findings in climate and earth sciences. You really have absorbed the standard Denier rhetorical points without doing any of your own research, haven’t you!!!

    Is there any more dis-information and propaganda you want to clutter JW’s comments thread with???


  18. My draft got crashed ……..
    … can’t write the same thing twice, but-

    We had all the parts for 3D printing 35 years ago; the CNC control, the nozzles, the plastics. We were short of one thing -money.
    Heavy taxation, incompetent banking sector, stopped all innovation in this country -and still does.
    Government, City, Banking, none of them have the foggiest notion how to evaluate R+D and new technology. Most companies don’t either -run by accountants.
    Until we change our entire philosophy about investment and growth, we will continue to shrivel and fade in the UK. There is absolutely no sign of this government or the City of London changing tack.

    I was in a southern european manufacturing facility today -major exporter to UK.
    I reckon they (their banks and taxers) had funded that factory to the tune of €250k per employee in recent year, in plant, equipment, facilities. With advanced equipment, each employee was probably generating that amount of revenue every 18 months it looked like to me.

    I know of not a single UK company in that field who can compete with them. I know of 500 UK companies who could out-do them within 5 years given the right support. I know that every single one of these companies if they went to the banks to borrow £2.5 million, £5 million, whatever, would be told they could have the money (with repayment on demand) only if they put up double that in security.

    UK engineers and designers could get us out of this mess. They have no shortage of product ideas that could wipe up all our unemployed (need to sort out the education system at the same time unfortunately). The bankers, lawyers & politicians will not get us out of this mess, they have pigmy imaginations, gigantic vanities, and NO courage.
    (why do you think they all want to stay in Europe, expect for someone else to take the blame and hopefully the responsibility. Fat chance)

    When the foreign money stops pouring into London for a safe haven, UK grinds to a halt.
    The sooner the UK press starts holding our leadership to account, the better.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. The solution to CO2 is to create something to eat it.
    Nature has produced a number of elegant solutions over the life of the planet to deal with excess CO2 (or excess any gas).
    One is called the tree.
    Plant some.


  20. I agree with much of what you say about the present situation but I can’t see any solution. Western countries have been living beyond their share of the earth’s resources for many centuries, and the rest of the world has now caught on and is catching up.
    Short of great advances in technology to create synthetic raw materials or a global disaster that kills two-thirds of the population, we are doomed to declining living standards. And whether it is our government fiddling the unemployment statistics or the Greek government pretending their country can go on as before spending other people’s money, nothing will change that.
    What’s happening as that we are levelling down while the developing world is levelling up – hence the way so many businesses (including the one I work for) now advertise apprentices at low pay and casual staff where, just a decade ago there were proper full-time jobs with pensions. Hence the worsening fortunes of the generations.
    The question is : When will the reality hit most people?

    Liked by 1 person

  21. The real problem is that we do not own our own property, just serfs on someone else land paying for the privilege with debt for just being here! Stolen land and stolen lives, when the proles wake up to this, if they ever do, it could turn nasty! Heres hoping.

    Liked by 1 person

  22. It’s actually rather cheap to consume most consumer products. What isn’t cheap is anything the state has interfered in with tax & regulation. Rent, Booze, Fuel, Income, Council… etc etc.

    I’m glad less people work 45hrs a week. Who wants to fecking spend 45 hours a week working!?

    A 3-d printer printed a 3-d printer last month. There are less jobs, there are going to be even less jobs in the future. Thus in the meantime we share out the work available, and hopefully get rid of the twats who spend their lives pissing our money up the wall on arms, bribes, ‘Aid’, crony hand-offs, diversity co-ordinators and the rest of the garbage.


  23. There is an excellent essay penned by Bertrand Russell in the 1930’s; “In Praise of Idleness”. Plenty of copies on the interweb.

    And also a very good interview with Yuval Noah Harari; Death is Optional. Touches on automation and the issues of a redundant global population.


    Liked by 1 person

  24. The problem with part-time work, is much of it is subsidised through Gordon Brown’s absurd tax credits scheme. When Brown started this, half the women in our company immediately went part time, because after the top-up they got the same wage as before.

    So the question is – is the government saving any money, by getting people off unemployment benefit, but giving them tax credit top-ups instead.?


  25. goal! would it also consume the hot air coming out of that rowan creature. ps if you argue with me i will declare you to be a denier.


  26. tom just look at the you tube videos of what modern cnc machine tools are capable of. its astonishing, and cheap. price per hour is laughable. cheap stuff is not just a product of cheap labour, with the right kit you can make stuff fast and cheap, problem is the buyer knows it, written on a hp chromebook £200? see? atb cc


  27. i have always loved history despite the effects of the dead stuff I was force fed at school. I used to think that people were different in the past, due to the fact that most of history appeared be built out of a collection of stories & people who would feel at home in ‘ Game of Thrones ‘. I suppose this view came about because I was born in a time of plenty & in terms of the West – a relatively stable time in terms of war, revolution, plague etc. For a long time I even believed that those who sat at the high table had our best interests at heart.

    I was thinking that the period since WW2 was the norm & that we in the West had got it sussed. Now I realise this was BS & in fact the equivalents of the Feudal barons who had more than enough labour for their needs & cared very little if hundreds starved for lack of work, are the actual norm. Reading Brain Manning’s book on the ‘ English revolution ‘ AKA the civil war brought it home to me, due to the fact that the people involved were facing very similar problems as we are today – although they were at the start of capitalism & we seem to be approaching the end of at least our present version of it. The social make-up is also very similar in terms of the percentage of radicals, the more conservative ‘ Middle sort of people ‘ & the mass of the labouring poor, topped by the usual bunch of rentiers.

    The lot of the common man was earlier only improved by the bubonic plague in the 13th century & since then it has been all about the balance of the supply & demand for labour – as at the end of the day, we are all it seems commodities, whose value is increasingly collapsing. The same Lords are still out there & i think as before, they care little about our welfare & Neoliberalism is a fancy name for looting, made worse due to the need to make up for their losses at the table. It’s getting ever harder for them to extract rent from us & I imagine that we are becoming a liability in our expectations of some say in governance, a safety net consisting of healthcare, pensions etc – ‘ Useless feeders as Kissinger said, who now even object to being used as cannon fodder/

    I think I have woken up over the last few years, but can’t help wishing that like most people, I was still dreaming.


  28. I see Captain has reverted to insults – usually a good sign that someone is losing an argument, knows it, but doesn’t like it.

    Yes, plant trees.
    Even better, don’t destroy the forests in the first place.


  29. Thanks Gospel.
    I must admit to some occasional heavy editing of my comments before posting – I’ve nearly been banned a couple of times for letting my frustration out too sarcastically. Dunno if they get threatened with the same ban due to all the name-calling and insults they indulge in (I’m guessing not though).


  30. I’m on here, Rowan, warning of Agenda 21, the Globalist backed plan for global depopulation & a Fascist World Govt., which is being progressed via the hijacked environmentalist movement, & its corrupted & false “science”. There, summed up in one sentence. Your attempts to mis-characterise me, & put words in my mouth are, frankly, pathetic.
    Perhaps you ought to try talking sense?


  31. Malthus hypothesised that, because food production was increasing in a linear trend, while population was increasing at an exponential trend, that huge famines would result, & that therefore huge population culls would be necessary. It didn’t happen. He didn’t factor in the improvements in farm technology etc. He didn’t factor in human industry & ingenuity, as I believe I’ve mentioned before. His theory has been falsified. You,sir, or madam, are an obtuse dolt.


  32. Rowan, this one I actually bust out laughing at: one graphic, with a timeline & a few squiggly lines = totally meaningless.
    A graph needs both axes calibrated to have any meaning.
    No comparison of texts or graphs, then & now, nada, nowt, zero, zilch. = baseless claims.
    Recently you derided some graphs I referenced from: http://www.stevengoddard.wordpress.com saying one had an axis calibrated in centimeters while the other was in millimeters. Tony Heller, a man with two degrees knocks out graphs for fun, while you, Rowan, knock out nonsense. You surpass yourself in idiocy.


  33. JD – they said that climate science Deniers were also likely to show conspiracy theorising tendencies – never thought I’d see it so clearly stated in black and white!
    You are actually on here spouting propaganda and lies about climate science, as you would know if you’d bothered to follow any of the numerous links I’ve posted here over the past few months.
    Yet again, rather than directly answering any of the questions I pose, you avoid the subject.


  34. Please answer how Malthus could account for events that hadn’t happened when he made his predictions.
    If the Green Revolution hadn’t happened, Malthus would have been right. We are now facing the exact same situation that Malthus warned about all those years ago; in need of a second (larger) Green revolution.
    Your position seems to be “it’s OK to ignore any problems because someone in the future will invent a solution so we don’t need to worry about it – so stop bothering me with all these petty problems because ingenuity will conquer all.”

    There is no y-axis on the LtG update chart because each line shows different things – they have merely been scaled to fit onto the same graph. The important take-away point is that the predictions (dotted lines) are fairly closely matched by the updated data (solid lines). Therefore falsifying your claim that the original study has been proven to be incorrect.

    If you know so much about graphs, why didn’t you spot Goddard’s howler before you claimed it as “proof” that I was lying to you?


  35. Steve Goddard aka Tony Heller, from Wikipedia

    “Steven Goddard (pseudonym for Tony Heller) is a global warming skeptic who runs the blog “Real Science.” Goddard originally blogged only using a pseudonym, but revealed his real identity in a June 27, 2014 blog post.[1] He has a BS in geology from Arizona State University and a Master’s degree in electrical engineering from Rice University. He gave a presentation, “The Emperor’s New Climate”, at the 9th annual International Conference on Climate Change by The Heartland Institute in 2014.[2]”

    “Goddard first became well known when he wrote an article in The Register asserting that the National Snow and Ice Data Center’s (NSIDC) graph of Arctic sea ice was flawed.[3] Ten days later, however, Goddard acknowledged that the data on which the graph was based was accurate.”

    “In June 2014, Goddard attracted considerable media attention for his claims that NASA had manipulated temperature data to make it appear that 1998 was the hottest year in United States history…… The claim was dismissed by Politifact.com, which rated it as “pants on fire”—its lowest possible rating. Politifact contacted Berkeley Earth scientist Zeke Hausfather, who told them that the problem with Goddard’s analysis was that it ignored the changes the network of U.S. weather stations had undergone over the last eighty years.[10] Goddard’s claims were also criticized by fellow climate skeptic Anthony Watts, who argued that his assertions of data fabrication were “wrong”, and criticized him for using absolute temperatures rather than anomalies in his analysis……Noted global warming skeptic Judith Curry characterized Goddard’s analysis of NASA’s data as “bogus.”

    “Goddard claims that the very high surface temperatures on Venus are largely attributable to its “extremely high atmospheric pressure” and that the composition of the Venusian atmosphere, which is 96% carbon dioxide, has little influence over surface temperatures on the planet. Though he does not cite him specifically, Goddard’s claim echoes the ideas outlined in a 2003 paper authored by Hans Jelbring, which also posits that surface temperatures on a planet are directly influenced by the size of the mass of the atmosphere. Such theories are in opposition to well-established and accepted planetary science theories that surface temperatures on celestial bodies with atmospheres is largely a function of the rate at which incoming light radiation is received by a celestial body and the rate at which infrared emissions from the planet’s body are blocked by greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.”

    Essentially, Goddard/Heller is a science Denier. Worse – his fellow Deniers think he’s an idiot and have publically stated so. If that man is your sole source of climate science, no wonder you are so clueless.


  36. FCT thanks for a lovely comment.

    When the foreign money stops pouring into London for a safe haven, UK grinds to a halt.

    You’re forgetting who owns London. The cash ain’t goin’ nowhere.


  37. rowan call that an insult? my you do lead a sheltered life dont you.read this carefully. when you refer to people that disagree with you as `deniers` you are being insulting.you are being intolerant and rude.think about that.


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