The Off-Topic grievance

I’ve yet to meet a blogger who likes Trolls, but for sheer ill-mannered bonkers obsession, there is nothing to beat the Off-Topic Charlie.

This bloke (and yes, it usually is a bloke) doesn’t bounce in and say “I know this is off-topic but”, he just starts to transmit. Like those sad folks you see wandering around having a conversation with imaginary friends, the ‘contributor’ launches into his chosen insanity secure in the conviction that we’ve all been dying for him to arrive.

Among Andrew Gilligan’s night-owls this morning is a classic example. Gilligong’s piece (five days old now) is about the Olympics opening ceremony. This comment went up a little while back:

‘The fact is Britain — or more correctly the British Mandate–didn’t establish the state of Israel. The Israeli Jewish extremist organisation Irgun did by tearing up all agreements and invaded Plaestinian Territories and establishing the borders– including invaded territories — almost overnight before any UN agreements came into force. After the death of many British soldiers at the hands of Irgun , and the bombing of the King David hotel by Irgun , killing many more British soldiers the British were only too glad to scrap the Mandare and leave Israel.. The UN,  an organisation set up and funded by USA,  sheepishly recognised the State of Israel ignoring their own agreement for a two state solution.’

Now as it happens, after a little propagandectomy, a lot of this is pretty accurate. But it’s the spittle that gives it away: all the Jewish fascist Zionist faction kill many soldiers tear up agreements style of those who regard their informally arranged teeth as nothing more than an obstacle in the way of The Point.

These people do indeed often have a point. But put them into a round-table studio discussion, and they will shout, interrupt, deny anyone else’s reality, and continue to extrapolate from The Point that their enemies need to be wiped out.You see, their point is always a grievance.

From 1911, and the first recorded instance of a rant, right through to his screaming fit at the Generals who told him he’d lost the war the night before he shot himself, Adolf Hitler charmed some Useful Idiots into believing that he was harmless, and called anyone else who argued with him “a shithead” – it was in fact his favourite word.

From the moment he first saw him at a podium on Pathe newsreels, it was obvious to my Dad that Hitler was utterly mad. He looked mad, he foamed, he said mad things, and he walked as if he was mad. So the chances were, Dad decided, he was mad. The following week – having read Mein Kampf – he volunteered for the RAF.

The My Dads of this world still exist, and there are far more of them under 30 than the media would have you believe. But there are nowhere near enough of them…just as there weren’t last time. Hitler II is so obviously a truck hurtling down the road towards us, it often stuns me to hear people describe the fear of Hitler II as “parallel poppycock” and so forth.

H2 won’t wear jackboots and a uniform, may not be a bloke, could be an Arab, a Brazilian, a New Yorker, or an Indian, probably isn’t a politician, and almost certainly won’t be a right-wing Nazi. But H2 will do exactly what Adolf did, and cost even more in death and destruction to remove…if surveillance technology hasn’t rendered that impossible by then.

Econo-fiscal collapse will give H2 the O of publicity. There will be a kernel of truth in the rant. But the resultant H20 is bound to be a Tsunami of hatred. Because H2’s point will be a grievance.

It could still be the Jews. Or Muslims, bankers, globalists, men, foreigners, the security services…the list of people behaving badly is a long one. Hence the grievance. Nice middle class people will say H2 has A Point. But utimately, H2 will just be the wrong nutter at the wrong time.

Now, isn’t that a nice cheery start to a Friday?

46 thoughts on “The Off-Topic grievance

  1. Agreed, far far too few My Dads, but it was ever thus. Us poor imperfect homo sapiens are by nature Chamberlains, we are mostly kind at heart; we therefore find it nigh on impossible to recognise the evil doers already in our midst. We collectively tolerate and even welcome a totally unelected executive in Italy, naively failing to remember Benito. We fear the banker or Mullah, perhaps rightly, but foolishly ignore the sad truth that technocratic governance is but an obfuscation, My Dad would have called it by its true name, dictatorship. May he rest in peace.


  2. It’s often said that for evil to exist all it takes is for good men to do nothing. But good men do nothing for two reasons. Firstly they cannot imagine or cannot confront the depth of evil (cf the Relief of Auschwitz). Secondly all of us have a dark side. In normal people that animal needs occasional feeding with a few scraps of anger, but a psychopath has allowed the animal to take over.
    We could write essays on how charismatic that animal seems to other, weaker souls.
    Anyway, good people out there, please just be living examples of what it means to do the right thing. Listen to “Hero” by David Crosby for inspiration.


  3. Max

    It’s often said that for evil to exist all it takes is for good men to do nothing. Firstly they cannot imagine or cannot confront the depth of evil (cf the Relief of Auschwitz). Secondly all of us have a dark side. In normal people that animal needs occasional feeding with a few scraps of anger, but a psychopath has allowed the animal to take over.

    A very interesting comment. I think you will have met a little of my darker side ( – but I would like to comment further on this by saying that your dark side need not be dark at all. Understanding its possibilities and how it might be used in a positive manner can unveil some of your richest talents!

    There is a third reason for allowing evil – some people think it is funny. My Troll seems to think it is funny after all.


  4. I also fear the end game of all the happy excess of the last 30 years will result in what you are alluding to. It seems unfortunately the way of the human species (which in my view is comprised of a fairly consistent distribution of the My Dads at one end and the H2 at the other). But I am hoping as Mark Twain said “History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”


  5. Seen through Anglo-American eyes, ever since 1945 Hitlers have come and gone with monotonous regularity. Mossadegh was a Hitler, Nasser was a Hitler (emphatically so to Eden, who became obsessed with him) General Grivas was a Hitler, Mao was (and in some quarters is still thought to be) a Hitler, Ho Chih Minh was a Hitler, Ayatollah Khomenei was a Hitler, Gaddafi was a Hitler when we didn’t need his oil, and of course more recently Saddam Hussein, Sheikh Omar, and Osama Bin Laden have been Hitlers. Far too many Hitlers, in fact, and most of them nowhere near Hitlerian enough for the comparison to hold water, which prompts the thought that the real one may have been sui generis after all.


  6. I’m sure, John, that when the time comes we (they actually, I,m a bit old for that carry on) will arise when called. I just hope hope we have a Churchill in place to do the calling. We haven’t at present.


  7. As you observe, there seems to be an ongoing need for a ‘bogey-man’ de nos jours, simple to validate the Anglo-American states’ needs to news-manage their populations and plunder their treasuries for weapons cash. Without a bogey-man, how do you justify the massive spending on never-used toys ?


  8. If I may add something to this debate about “new Hitlers” – the first thing to mention is that nobody will realize that he is a Hitler until he has gone. Save a rare few, that is. He won’t be an Obama or a bin Laden, to my mind they are both puppets of a sort. Hitler was no puppet!

    Interesting that you bring up the situation of people disagreeing with Hitler – whereupon he got into a rage. Stalin in such situations was, I believe, sullen and withdrawn; he struck later and with less compunction.

    The point I want to make here is that all these people (as listed by Houndstooth above) thought that they were correct in what they did. They had made their decisions on the basis of their thinking and what could be wrong with that? The problem is that events usually take a hand in this, like the Ukrainian famines mentioned by Ioannis yesterday. For all his faults, Stalin did believe that his moves would be for the best for everybody – well, reading history carefully will give you the answer to that.

    The more important point is that these people (leaders) were so convinced of their own correctness that they forgot that events could tell them otherwise. Shouting “Scheisskopf” at your underlings loudly enough simply will not do: you must not only listen to them and what they have to say, but to events too. The problem there is that events on a national scale can unfold with tedious slowness. That is where the real skill of the leader’s listening must be directed. It is no easy task, for the evidence at that stage is lacking.


  9. The Occupy movement seemed to start off sponteniously, and I know some of the victims of secret court abuse were attracted to it, myself included, but it’s one thing to be a victim of institutional abuse and simply want to be allowed access to the justice system and quite another thing to have an agenda to smash up the whole system and get revenge. I’m personally not interested in revenge, all I want is to be able to live in peace and not be persecuted, but the justice system doesn’t work at the moment as there is too much corruption in high places, and there definatly should not be any secret courts at all, not ever, for any reason in a modern democratic country. “Hitlers” rise to power because people see them as Messiahs, I saw that happening in the Obama propaganda before he got elected, they even had children in one school pretty much setting him up as some sort of Christ figure, it’s not good to do that to anyone, no matter how benign they seem. The problem is, if corruption is rife everything falls to bits, and people do start looking for messiahs and thats how countries end up with a psychopath at the helm.


  10. I have worked with, (and helped look after), individuals who are so utterly convinced their thinking is correct that if they actually had attained positions of power…… well, very scary prospect indeed! It is, in my view, much more luck than good management that we have not had many, many more nutcases wreaking havoc on this little blue planet.


  11. David

    Exactly the point I was trying to make – and warn against. However, there are individuals who have such intellectual power but also a small amount of humility. It doesn’t take much, a little is enough to show anyone bright enough to see the errors they make are in fact the errors in their thinking.

    Your experience is of people whose capacity is only to “think inside the box”. It is very convincing and also circular (as is all logic). It proves itself, and cannot be disproved using the assumptions held by that person. Anything else is an attack, for this state of mind is also defensive, as is logic – it requires “proof” after all. It cannot be independent, for proof denies that possibility.


  12. There are no such things as Palestinians. There are only Arabs. Palestinians are an Anglo-French invention as are Syrians, Lebanese & Jordanians. The Arabs that call themselves “Palestinian” do so because it suggests that they couldn’t possibly find a new homeland in the rest of the made-up Arab territories. This ensures they remain an Israeli problem rather than an Arab problem.


  13. All those other H2 wannabees have been in cultures/countries that are not natively embedded with Western Culture.

    Germany in the 1920s and 30s was a proper Western Culture and the conditions were ripe for H to grab hold of a significant and dangerous minorities attention to rise to power.

    I think John (at least I am) is concerned that the conditions for this to happen in the west are going to be the ripest they have been since the 1920s. Think of America, currently 15%-20% U6 unemployed out of a workforce of around 160 million with no obvious hope. That is 20-30 million disaffected people not counting the other 10-20 million people attached to them (only 10% of the population but it only takes a small motivated minority). These numbers will only grow as the obvious conclusion of the unwinding of Credit Bubble one (2007-2009), and its echo building by Bernank and the ECB (2009-2012) unwinds (2013+). The right (or wrong) conditions could certainly cause serious problems if a charismaticpotential H2 leader even with bad logic somehow motivates even a small minority of this demographic.


  14. Well, the Nazis were not right-wing. Absolutely not. I know you think otherwise, but that’s due to your standard establishment education which ignores that almost all totalitarianism regimes sit on the Far Left.

    That said, I have been saying for ~15 years that fascism is on the rise. Your essay could easily have been snitched from my comments over the past 15 years, although I’m sure it isn’t. I could see it then and it’s now happening. As I said 15 years ago, the new fascists won’t be wearing military fatigues and goosestepping etc…they’ll be wearing Armani suits and hanging out at the best restaurants…

    Others have mentioned his name above. Blair is the man who wants to become the new fascist leader of Europe. And let’s be clear, Blair is and always has been a socialist: once a socialist, always a socialist. But like so many socialists when they make money they become champagne socialists.


  15. It wouldn’t surprise me.
    I do know that when he was in power a lady from a local church excitedly told me ‘they’ (not sure if she meant the local church or the whole denomination) had written to him to say they thought God had appointed him to save the world…..or something like that. Sigh!


  16. I totally agree.
    A family friend, a German who fought in WW2, told us in the early 1980s that the world was ripe for H2. He could see the similarities in the way things were going. I wish I’d taken more notice.
    It seems to start with people throwing away their sense of right and wrong.


  17. Plausible that a new maniac rides in from the west, but he will have to photogenic, and fool the mass media. He would have to come from the financial and legal mafia, and none of them are pretty.
    I can’t see it happening for 50 years, we are all way too tolerant of the status quo, and won’t notice the gradual destruction of little people by big business.
    The problem I have, is that modern western culture was built entirely on debt. If you look at the young workers in any city, they have highly paid jobs in the service industries or large corporations, have three or four holidays a year, a sporty little car, go out 4 nights a week. They expect that lifestyle to continue, and only pray they don’t get kids.
    Compare them against the average across the world. Most people are grateful to get a square meal, and it isn’t because they aren’t working their sandals off.
    The standard of living across Europe and USA has to probably be halved over the next generation, because it is unsustainable and we don’t deserve our cushy lifestyle. But who looks forward to that outcome.
    Corruption of the banks and government is the biggest issue, but not very far behind it. is our own personal greed.
    In one sense, the actions of the 1% understandable because they see the trouble coming down the road, and they are only trying to ‘protect themselves’.
    On the other hand, we let them get so powerful and greedy. And didn’t object when they sold all our assets, ideas and companies abroad.


  18. Domestic Extremist – he has form. Look at the draconian laws he introduced – curtailing freedom of speech, so called ‘hate speech’; systematic, deliberate importation of a foreign, hostile culture intent on imposing it’s way of life on the indigenous population – the first time in these islands’ history that they were not allowed to defend themselves from this invasion; control over the MSM including the BBC with their relentless Marxist propaganda; dumbing down of education including systematic selection of historical events designed to denigrate and maniplate British history …..etc., etc. ad nauseam……..not forgetting his ambition to be president of the EU or as he probably would have it, Eurabia.


  19. BT – spot on and your example of people believing that the Nazis were right-wing is an example of the relentless, successful brainwashing by the Left as I mentioned in my post to Domestic Extremist. The Left conveniently forget that the greatest genocides of the 20th century were inspired by their ideology.


  20. Jim Kunstler has also been waving a red flag on the other side of the pond over this same sorry likelihood for quite some time. He calls them “corn-pone Nazis” & “corn-pone Hitler”. I think it is already a fait accompli, as the whole social structure is already in place that would be the “nutrient culture” for a 21st century version of der Fuehrer to manifest him/herself. That a specific individual crackpot identifiable with the idea of the supreme leader has yet to unmistakably appear on the stage is almost immaterial. As everybody has been pointing out, we’ve no lack of candidates. We already have the Fascism, and this time the crypto-Nazis have digital fiber-optic technology, etc. I see no cause for optimism.


  21. @LudwigVonMises:
    Add into that mix the growing disillusion with corrupted democracy in the West and its central role in bringing the world economy to its knees…


  22. @Shazza: Yep, I’ve read both your posts and I totally agree with you. Too many people don’t realise how the Left has quietly taken over our system of government, MSM and educational establishment and is now spewing its propaganda. The future is bleak.


  23. BT

    I am not saying that is what I believe: it is what Stalin believed.

    He believed that there would be a “little collateral damage” (shall we call it?). Indeed there were die-hard first-order communists who were in the camps, having been purged. They still believed that the “mistake” was all part of how the system would eventually sort itself out.

    My point was not that it happened, but that people believed that the bits that were going wrong was only a detail.

    As ever, it is a matter of where you begin to make your assumptions. The fundamental problem with socialism or Stalinism has nothing to do with economics. It has to do with emotion: making people work better is not done through economic theory but through an understanding of what really moves them.

    PS I have read Solzhenitsyn and know the details of the purges. His vox-pop histories of the camps are a compelling read.


  24. @Gemma: Oh …I didn’t think for one moment that you believed it all. Sorry if that’s the impression you got :-)

    What you describe is actually exactly what I alluded to on the Slog a few days ago…viz that socialist despots always believe that their ideology is right (and anybody who challenges it is disposed of) and its imposition on the population must take highest priority over mere collateral damage. The ideology is the greater cause. In almost every case: massive human slaughter, economic destruction and resultant poverty. Whether we talk about Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Castro, Saddam and all the rest of them, the story is always the same. Today, we see similar things going on in places like Iran, M/E and Zimbabwe where the state ideology of the despotic rulers is imposed against any amount of human suffering.
    Common features of these despots is a deep hatred of fellow citizens and society, a concealed hatred of themselves and a desire to create a utopian paradise and start again. And of course they’re all psychopaths.


  25. Doesn’t this narrative rather depend on acceptance of the view that there was this Hitler-nutter that we had to go to war with to stop, when we could have just ignored him and let him wear himself out fighting the Soviet Union?

    Obviously, there is a good chance that without the British empire and the USA against him he might have beaten the Soviets, but even if that were the case, the Soviet Union was a big place – too big for an army drawn from the German population to hold down.

    We could have saved ourselves a lot of lives, not to mention an Empire.

    Perhaps the problem isn’t Hitler version 2, but the people who want us to fear Hitler version 2. Hmmnn?


  26. BT

    Let us clear something up, shall we?

    viz that socialist despots always believe that their ideology is right (and anybody who challenges it is disposed of) and its imposition on the population must take highest priority over mere collateral damage.

    This is not about “Socialists” this is about intellectuals. They have their cliques and societies, and sometimes governments. Anybody who does not agree with them gets the cold shoulder (or worse if they have the opportunity – and the meanness of course).

    Just try it in any bar – try arguing with someone whose ideas are fixed. All their arguments will be based in one direction, and if you listen carefully, you can work out what their basic premise is. I am sure you have experienced it. That goes for any intellectual – that is to say, someone whose ability to think is securely inside the box.


  27. @Gemma: Nope, I was referring to socialists not intellectuals. The despots I mentioned earlier were all varieties of socialists, not intellectuals. In fact, Mao hunted down intellectuals and had them slaughtered because he saw them as a danger to his evil regime.
    Granted nowadays that a few socialists are also pseudo-intellectuals, but most are locked into their ideology and won’t easily shift. It is precisely this type of socialist that we have running the Civil Service which fools a lot of people into thinking they must be Tories because they are well educated and guzzle champers. But they usually aren’t.
    The people you refer to in a bar are riff-raff blue collar whacknuts. If their ideas and opinions are as fixed as you describe, chances are they are also socialists. There’s a lot of them about.


  28. @BT and @Gemma

    Interesting convo. Only to add that regardless of their political persuasion (though sometimes because of it) intellectuals (intelligentsia) are usually the first to be rounded up, at best interrogated and threatened or tortured; at worst sent to concentration camps or gulags and the like. Free-thinking (or the suspicion of it) and the risk of dissidence must be suppressed at all cost.

    As I know well from my father’s experience in WW2.


  29. @ftw “I cant see it happening for 50 years”

    I pray you are correct. But it doesn’t take long to mobilise a population when they suddenly find themselves with little hope, with much they held dear lost or threatened and their whole way of life disintegrating; and when someone- that ‘H2’- points out that it’s all the fault of x, y or z scapegoat.


  30. Sir,

    As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am new to the ‘Compost Business’.
    If you or any of your readers have a subject under discussion – I come along quietly and tip my 5 tonne trailer of ordures over it for your sensory pleasure and intense interest.
    Fortunately there is no charge for my services as all expenses are met by the EEC social funding mechanism whose grants cover this activity and also publishing fictitious and second rate troll imaginations to the internet
    note: We do not accept any criticisms whatsoever concerning the bad odours of all of our products.


  31. Alf

    Free-thinking (or the suspicion of it) and the risk of dissidence must be suppressed at all cost.

    This is the result of intellectual (inside the box thinking). You can only cope with so many thoughts – and anything else is a danger. Since it is “wrong” (= not your way of thinking) it cannot be right and therefore can be rightfully disposed of. As long as you are heartless enough of course. If you have no recourse to that, they set Trolls on you, or blackball you in some other way.


    You are still thinking inside your box. Please read my observations with more diligence. You might learn something about how humans think, and how they limit themselves.


  32. @Don’t

    you can’t expect a Troll that is locked in a cage somewhere in northern Delaware to be up to date on countries it has never heard of.


  33. @Gemma: That’s a good cop out response ;-) This has nothing to do with intellectualism as you keep saying.
    The despots I previously listed were socialists, not intellectuals (in fact many of them hated intellectuals and hunted them down). They had an agenda to impose their particular model of society and economy onto the populations of their countries with complete disregard for the peoples’ wishes. You may argue why they did it, but not that it happened. The many millions who were slaughtered by them were seen as collateral damage because their psychopathic aims were far more important (to them). Trying to understand the mind of a psychopath is not easy. It’s enough to recognise the traits…


  34. John,

    Given what has happened to the WW2 victor countries since 1945, I don’t believe there will be many “My Dad”s volunteering to take on Hitler 2.


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