Robbing the State blind can only lead to the State hiring prying eyes.

There’s an island just to the south of Corfu called Zakynthos, and it is home to nearly 600 visually challenged Greeks.

A story of survival against the odds? Actually, more a case of the survival of ckeeky sods. All of them are sighted enough to be taxi drivers, shopkeepers and restaurant owners, farmers, hunters – and regular players of backgammon in the island’s cafes and bars. But all of them have been living for years on a blindness allowance to which none of them were entitled.

Sadly, they weren’t very far-sighted. When a new Mayor replaced the former crooked one, he saw the names of those registered ‘blind’ and realised he knew most of them….but had never noticed their sight problems – on account of them not having any.

So he’s turned them in – for which he got pelted with eggs and yoghurt in the traditional Greek manner. (Amazingly – considering their disability – very few taxpayers missed).

Hat-tip to the sharp eyes of Nick Squires at the Sunday Telegraph for spotting this one.

 This is, of course, merely an honest Mayor doing his job. But when too many people rob the State, official snooping takes off. Jamaica now has a cheat line, and over the last year it has grabbed $176m back from those evading tax. They operate in varying sectors, including manufacturing, wholesale, retail, security as well as legal and medical services. That doesn’t leave many areas of life where they don’t cheat.
In East Germany – where Angela Merkel flourished in a manner she now prefers to deny  – they had denouncement lines for everything…with the result that grudges were simply fed by a State that wanted to know about everybody and anything. Once a culture heads south and cheats prosper, it’s an open door for the taxman and – in Britain since Jacqui Smith’s time – GCHQ to start watching, listening and monitoring 24/7.
I was given sight of some Troika ‘helpful tips’ offered to the Athens Government about collecting tax last month. Oddly enough, quite a few of them involved surveillance technology…with recommendations about German and US companies who would be only too happy to supply them with said snooping equipment. Imagine that.
The response of governments to feral teenage burglars and pissheads is not to tackle the parenting, educational and social reasons for this, but to stick cameras everywhere. It’s the same with tax evasion, benefit crime, white collar fraud and banking scams: what we get is an army of regulators and snoopers, as opposed to a recognition that the culture sucks. Once the police give up the fight (which here in the UK they did some ten years ago) then the circle of excuses is complete: “Well,” say the Theresa Mays, “We have to give GCHQ all this power and money because all these Underclass, unemployed and Islamist folks don’t know how to behave. Nothing to do with anything we did, goodness me no”.
It’s a great scam, and it will never end until more people like David Davis try to say ‘no’. But we too must shoulder the blame: if you think it’s clever to cheat the State, the State will simply get more clever still, employing more and more unproductive civil servants. Misbehaviour costs us all a fortune, and gives the control freaks a gold-plated excuse to spy on all of us.
As for tax specifically, a I’ve posted endlessly (to the derision of most readers) the only answer is to stop directly taxing incomes in any shape or form. Overnight, the vast majority of people would have the ability to cheat removed by default. But the short-term, easy answer is to start making Britain’s larger corporations pay their fair share.

59 thoughts on “Robbing the State blind can only lead to the State hiring prying eyes.

  1. By all means…stop taxing incomes …
    but at the same time slash the cost of handouts and unproductive staff thereby reducing all government by 75%.
    Game on…?
    I don’t think so.

  2. We must be protected from ourselves… the government knows best what to do with our money. The reason the original American constitution forbade personal income tax and only allowed corporate tax to exist was because those forefathers had seen the way that European companies could end up ruling governments, monarchy’s, and countries. The only thing that guaranteed America was different from the old country was that the burden of society could be squarely placed on the corporations and their owners who directly gained the most and allow the lower classes to be free from taxation to amass savings and promote investment (true capitalism ensures that the lowest levels of an economy make enough to pay back into the economy and have enogh to promote growth… to have capiatlism everyone from the bottom up must have capital… not this trickle down BS that the rich have espoused). Yes… people on Zakynthos cheated a system that never intended to enforce the rules it made… and encouraged the process by trading votes for benefits and took money from corporations and high wage earners to pay for it. If you lived on an island with no infrastructure, business, industry, or even enough food production to be self sufficient and were given an iron clad opportunity to take from the governement what it stole from you daily? Its obviously wrong and at it’s basest is cheating but you have to understand that the cheating did not start with Zakynthos… but in Athens. Ultimately it doesn’t matter… with all the cheating, corruption, and bribery in the EU and the world anyone that DOESN’T take every “creative” tax break, government program, or advantage in this world they can is a fool, cheating or not. Life is not fair, why play by the rules of religion based morality when priest are too busy dipping their candlesticks into the altar boys to really care what anyone does anyway… it’s vast hypocrisy to shame another’s game, or jealousy. I don’t fault anyone from playing by the rules of real life instead of philosophy.

  3. @ John , this kind of excuses and sophist theories brought us where we are .First were few and few watching but didn’t bother , then few more , then you were a fool not to and then as in Heminway’s famous words ” “How did you go bankrupt?”
    Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”

  4. ..why play by the rules of religion….candlestick dipping…

    Hereby illustrates in technicolour the need for the original intention of the scriptures to save the hedonistic devils from the coming conflageration …

  5. I have said for the past 20 years at least, put Road Tax on fuel, no evasion and people pay according to use. But, of course it’s not road tax now is it? It’s Vehicle Excise Duty, perhaps that why the roads are almost unusable in places…..

  6. I don’t think any government would ever agree to abolish income taxes and transfer the burden onto spending, because it would then not have minimum guaranteed tax revenues and would be at the mercy of consumers who might go on strike and starve them of money to flush down the lavatory. Some transfers would be sensible and cost effective, like transferring VED onto fuel prices and one wonders why this has never been done as it would also capture additional tax from foreign vehicles being used in the UK. Perhaps Labour would shout and scream about it as their luvvies would then be obliged to actually pay according to usage. Imagine that. Such tax systems are anathema to socialists.

    On welfare…when you have a system that is all-embracing and complicated, it’s inevitable that abuse will arise, sometimes intentional, other times not. But that has never bothered Labour (the prime advocates of the Welfare State) so long as their luvvies’ votes are being bought. Labour could simplify the Welfare system enormously by replacing many of the 20-30 page forms with one simple question: “Do You Vote Labour. YES/NO”. But that would be too obvious…

  7. Even if it is VED you only need it for use on the road
    I’d go further and put a third party insurance on fuel as well and before the usual cries of unfair let me expand a little

    # with the advent of young female drivers insurance going up due to equality then it won’t be long before years of driving experience won’t be allowed due to the young drivers not be able to achieve this due to their age
    # In most cases if you are not on the road using a vehicle then you can not really be an insurance risk, so the more fuel you use the greater your insurance risk to not only your self but to all other road users and of needing to make an insurance claim due to the actions or inattention od AN Other
    # Not being able to avoid paying would make the whole present penalty process simpler and loss costly as to most extent it wouldn’t be needed. It would also make the process of involvement with DfT, DVLA, Insurance companies most redundant so save admin cost

  8. I read recently that Greek farmers are the EUs most prolific agricultural claimants so much so that they are awash with cash. The vehicle of choice in these comunities is the Porsch Cayenne and according to Porsche there is one small town in west mainland Greece where more Cayennes are purchased per capita than London and New York put together!!

  9. I agree stop income tax for employees, being saying that for years. Make the government earn their money from VAT then people can decide where they will pay tax. Luxury goods VAT would definitely need to go up. Benefits should be restricted and capped – how can someone on benefits be getting the equivalent to £50K – £100K and no tax. A lot of them couldn’t even get a job for £25K the majority pulling the big money are even not available for work as they cannot speak the language.

    Corporation tax should stay and large corporations like Vodafone should be made to pay their tax, how can a Labour Government have signed off a company not paying tax on Billions of pounds. Cannot place my hands on the cut out from the newspaper advising that the Indian Government was going after Vodafone and their tax bill was going to retrospective – nice one, but it should have been our purse that money was put into. Maybe Cameron could do a bit of good and go after them – what Brown did has to be illegal. Those bastards in the tax office make people bankrupt and lose their homes for a few thousand pounds.

  10. I don’t think any govt is to bothered by granny wage earners dodging their tax liability – it’s the fat cats they want and that should be easy to check out – just follow the money .If you live in an up market postcode, have a house worth more that £1m, ~5 cars in the driveway blah blah, – it won’t take you an hour to draw up new guidelines for HMRC to follow .To include car owners where the new value of the car is >£25K or whatever .People with money spend it and love creature comforts – you got’em .

  11. Enoch Powell once said, “When the government cheats the people, then the people cheat each other”. How right he was.
    A fish rots from the head down, governments do the same. While people keep electing these scoundrels, hoping to get a different result, nothing will ever change.

  12. One point that Gerald Celente makes is that the new fascist laws and executuve orders being passed in the US are because the elites already know that the paper money (fiat) system is collapsing, and they want the powers in place when it finally comes crashing down to keep themselves in power deal with the riots and civil unrest that will certainly follow. The same thing is going on in the UK (see Blair’s Civil Contingency Act) and across the EU.

  13. Putting road tax onto fuel price in the UK was an old Liberal party idea (pre Lib Dem). People seemed to think it fair, but it never got taken up. I can imagine the insurance lobbyists coming up with a shedload of reasons why it wouldn’t work to include insurance in the price per litre – it would kill the insurance sector, millions would lose jobs, sky would fall in, etc.

  14. Agreed… I don’t say I approve or excuse I simply say that in a crooked world it is the honest that are at a disadvantage and I refuse to judge someone desperate enough to fake blindness for a couple of hundred Eros a month when there are such bigger thieves and cheats out there for me to save my vitriol. No corruption is good but the corruption of those specifically entrusted with the public’s welfare, whose responsibility it literally is to be honest and fair, the ones expected to set the example for the rest, that have the most, that steal the most, share the least, punish the poor and then demonize them for not being more successful at being corrupt… that’s who I will judge, I will save my righteous indignation for the biggest offenders FIRST and then once the Papandreous, Karamanlis, etc. of this world have been held accountable, then I will worry about some island Vlaho. The crime of pretending to be blind is nothing compared to the crimes of our “leaders” breaking all of Greek society’s back to pay for their greed, and to save a corrupt, blood soaked system of finances and government… gimme a break, if we aren’t going to prosecute the politicians that caused this mess, why should we go after anyone. Don’t let them confuse you… first they try to get us to blame Germany, now they want us to blame pensioners, and disabled people (real or not) … why can’t people see these tricks for what they are… distractions while they rig the election.

  15. Everyone takes the bait and demonizes the poorest, most desperate people, while every government in the world gives all the major corporations in their countries all kinds of fraudulent benefits and social welfare… loop holes for taxes, loans that will never be paid back, access to natural resources that should be used for the public… it’s hilarious how people return to dog eat dog tactics only when the dog is smaller than them.

    Publicized debt, privatized profit… while people attack each other.

  16. you could reduce the oportunity for people to cheat……..theres no cheating of PAYE because its deducted at source. self employed / sole traders should just have to pay a fixed fee same for all…… on fuel / alcohol / tobacco etc simple enough…….the whole tax regime needs to be simplified…..nobody fully understands it….even the accountants…….In an ideal world by all means have a voluntary tax code……but sorry to have to say it, those days in UK are long gone

  17. John i believe that the crooks in Athens should be hung but the ” blind ” in Zakynthos that turned a blind eye to the crooks in Athens because they were receiving “a couple of hundred euros” don’t look good either .I personally don’t believe that they were desperate people , don’t describe Zakynthos as “an island with no infrastructure, business, industry, or even enough food production to be self sufficient ” because is sooo far from the truth .We put up with corrupt politicians because crumbs fell off their tables and we felt happy taking them .Denying responsibility and only blaming others strips us from all power to change and will be a shame if we don’t . Our country is practically destroyed and we have to understand few things out of this ” story ” , like with all stories .For some stories is easy . The moral of ‘The Three Bears,’ for instance, is “Never break into someone else’s house.’ The moral of ‘Snow White’ is ‘Never eat apples.’ The moral of the “greek bankruptcy ” is that “the original American constitution forbade personal income tax and only allowed corporate tax to exist and we didn’t follow that” .NO i am sorry is NOT.

  18. Zakynthos, like most of Greece outside of Athens would not exist without the “crumbs” from the plates of the corrupt. Athens has run things this way for a long time to keep control. I remember before Kerkyra joined Greece we had our own, efficient power plant, our own university, our own infrastructure and one of the first things the Greek federal government did was close the power plant… so much for self sufficiency, eh? If crumbs is all you’ve got… you WILL take them. What I meant about no infrastructure or industry still stands… power supply and public service, even on big islands are only in the last 10 years becoming even remotely acceptable… and as far as industry or a financial infrastructure… forget it, that is why becoming a civil servant became such a popular job option… it was secure in the idea that the government could not fire you for voting the wrong way, and there is no other industry here anyway… so Athens holds all the cards, why should they not also be responsible?

  19. I remember reading many years ago about moving ‘road tax’ to the price of the tyres. This is similar to the fuel arguement. The further you drive, the more you pay. It was also argued that it would encourage careful driving.
    In oder to get people to buy new tyres when needed (in addition to MOT), tyre manufacturers would introduce a red or yellow layer of rubber at a certain depth. It was kicked into the ‘long grass’ but it sounded a fair idea.

  20. I agree with you.
    The tenor of this thread seems to have gone towards the “tax the rich i.e. not me” type of argument. This is precisely the trap which our rulers want us to fall into. It divides the people and allows “the state” (not the same thing at all) to control us.
    My view is that tax is, quite simply, an evil-it takes away from the individual what is rightfully his own and gives it to others. We all recognise that although an evil, it is a necessary evil because, properly used, it helps those among us who need help. We therefore generally pay our tax.
    However, when the product of the tax is to benefit those we generally consider should not be helped ( and here the culprits are the financial institutions-at present) we object to paying. I therefore have no animus against those who avoid tax. Contrary to the idiot Osborne view, tax avoidance is not immoral-it is the greater morality to look after yourself and your family.
    Once the state equates avoidance of its rules with immorality, we are halfway to a fascist state-obey the law, no matter how wrong it is. We all know where that one led before. That is not a route we should go down, even though we have droves of “officials” and “authorities” only too willing to “make us” do so. Bad laws quite simply should not be obeyed.

  21. The Greek political elites, Merky, Sarko and Barroso should be hauled around the Athenian soup kitchens with TV news cameras ON, so the electorates can see first hand what the European Union has ‘achieved’.

  22. “The island of the blind “, it must have been one that Odysseus missed.

    Their might be less self justification to cheat if those who are supposed to set an example did so & cleaned up their own backyards first, instead of just pontificating from a great hypocritical height. People then might actually believe that we are really ” All in this together”, instead of every man for himself & big dog eat little dog.

  23. VED isn’t the reason for the jobs at Swansea – most VED is now collected electronically. The DVLA jobs for otherwise unemployable Welsh people are about maintaining ownership records, which would still be needed if VED was abolished or collected some other way.

    They could also use the very same DVLA system to maintain ownership records of mandatory micro-chipped dogs, thus solving two problems with one IT system, and employing a few more lovely Welshfolk – but that’s too simple and obvious for them !

  24. @Mudplugger: “…thus solving two problems with one IT system”

    That would indeed be progress. At the moment govt generally prefers to have two IT systems which don’t even solve one problem!

  25. Dear John (always wanted to write a Dear John letter!)

    Discovered you a few months back. Love your stuff. Your sparkling wit and repartee. I’m 64. Born in Mombasa, lived in Canada for 30 yrs. Wales for the last 17. Sex, drugs(soft) & rock n’ roll, always been top of my agenda…until I started slowing down! Boo hoo. You know plenty about politics and the corrupt way we have been enslaved. Did you know the Galactic Federation, Beings who have evolved on a far higher spritual level than us, currently have massed fleets in our skies above? FIRST CONTACT. Denied by the MSM because that is controlled by the Illuminati, whom they are currently dismantling, right to the evil core. They are actually here to assist Gaia (Mother Earth) with her Ascenion at the end of the year. Dec 21, 2012. This cannot be achieved, without first removing the Dark Ones. And this they are Divinely bound to do. Yes, God, Whom I did not belive in, untill about 4 months ago, when I learnt about the GF, Ashtar Command, Pleidian Council, and many more. There are countless websites. Those three Federations are but three. the2012scenario; ascensionearth2012; acquariouschannellings; treeofthegoldenlight are more. I now believe in God. And I now know we have been saved from the Iluminati. I think you should know, being someone who truly cares. All is not lost, There is hope for ALL. The MSM always removes my comments whenever I mention FIRST CONTACT. I know you won’t. God bless you. Spread the wondrous news. I hope you don’t mind if I use your comment section to do likewise. Thank you so much. Chris

  26. Well, Chris, I am all in favour of removing ‘the Dark ones’ and I too believe in God. I believe that God is in control, and will not be mocked. So there is hope for us all.
    As to the rest of what you say, it all seems a bit far-fetched.

  27. I read the message daily. Far too estoric, and spiritual, for someone like us to write. Just read what they have to say, and I promise, you will belive every word. And if you knew me, you would be astounded that I believe every word. Honest to God!

  28. And here is the unequivocal proof that we have made FIRST CONTACT. The MSM always…always…removes my comments whenever I mention it! If It were BS, and I were a loony…well.

  29. ” (Amazingly – considering their disability – very few taxpayers missed).”
    That is just too funny.

  30. I believe the statement pointed out that the small agricultural town of Larissa was a global hotspot for Porsche Cayenne sales, with a large proportion of the Greek total figure going to these farming communities.
    The numbers of Cayennes supplied to these very hard-up farmers stood out as unique, espesially as very few of them earned enough to pay tax.
    Obviously Porsche will play this down – just in case Mr Tata takes interest.
    This supports JWs drift!!

  31. So the Illuminati are *out* and the Galactic Federation are *in*.

    Should I buy or sell gold?

  32. If you remove income tax, capital gains tax, inheritance tax totally and stamp duty at the level it is (as this leads to immoral governments pushing fake policy to inflate property prices and transactions to fill their coffers) and move to a system of:

    1. Paying for the administration directly for registers i.e. the things that are needed to run the country, databases of vehicles and operators, property, owners and occupiers, citizens and residents etc. on a basis of registration, changes / updates and annual charges proving maintenance and insurance.

    2. Each individual paying a proper national insurance policy that covers them for medical inc. dental, income protection (unemployment, sickness, accident, critical and terminal illness) and family protection ( life). Companies should not pay anything towards it.

    3. Pay per use transport including moving motorways to toll system, all other roads funded from a reduced road levy.

    4. All utilities and municipal services on a usage basis including refuse collection and street lighting, cleaning and maintance — these should not be collected by an inefficient local authority but by cooperative that is responsible for actually providing the service.

    5. VAT — which needs to be ratified, Customs & Excise Duties should cover the cost of running a greatly reduced civil service and administration of parliament, police, accident & emergency, criminal justice, judiciary, security, intelligence and defence.

    6. A corporate income tax NOT profit tax which should cover education and infrastructure investment.

    The government however should not be responsible to provide the services only policy e.g. NHS a National Insurance pays for this at point of use, the premium an individual pays is based on their health and level of service they want beyond the basic, but the government should not be one to provide the facilities.

    By having all income in individual silos the system becomes more transparent, cost of running government is visible to all, any surpluses will have to be declared and followed by price reductions for the services in the following year.

    One final thing is remove political parties from house of commons, have local representatives as MPs who do as constituency require on each policy, have their salaries and office costs and expenses paid for locally. No need for elections, they can be sacked and replaced at any time. The cabinet office which in effect is a management team is the only thing we elect this should be no more than 20 individuals who are held to account by our representatives in the house of commons. House of lords should be representatives of the crown no point in us worrying about who they are only the crown NOT government can appoint them stops corruption of government

    As JW says remove the restrictive rules and nobody will break the law. Keep it simple and accountable.

  33. Additionally if we reduce number of MPs Portcullis House can act as MPs offices and bedsits / hotel (bed and breakfast) therefore no MP can claim accommodation expenses for visiting the house. Like everybody else their salary covers their home costs etc. they can have an annual standard class rail ticket, fixed constituency office budgets set by constituency and evening meal allowance of £15.00 when they are in the house again paid or by their constituency of which their attendance is on an auditable register. All they are to do is vote as directed to look after the interests of their community.

  34. Nick, you raise an oft-argued point.

    Imagine if it came to pass. Over time, a much better calibre of candidates would win elections and begin to populate government; to the point where we may even look up to them (rather than them just looking down on us).

    Would you be quite so ‘strict’ about their remuneration then?

    I’m not picking on your post, it’s just that you raised an issue I can’t even resolve for myself. Interested to read what Sloggers think…


  35. Firstly I have split the executive from MPs. It is up to each constituency what they are prepared to pay their MP, however I do feel hidden costs such as expenses need to be controlled. They are doing a job, not a jolly. With regard to house of lords that is for the crown to decide their terms of payment. The crown should receive a budget to run itself, including the members of the lords.

    The executive / cabinet office whom I do not think need to be MPs should be renumerated accordingly. For their London accommodation however most will have a state house / accommodation with the post and perhaps they all should. Salaries should be in line with executive pay, they are there to run the country.

    But in answer to your question, yes I would be strict on pay. We want a cabinet office of non career politicos. The salary they get from this job should not be the driver. Maybe then we might get some calibre and stature, people who actually want to make a difference, who have already achieved in other environments and whose skills the job of running a country require.

  36. ‘Parliamentary reform’
    Unfortunately for any system to work, you need a de-politicised civil service, servants of the nation. Call-me-Tone made sure we aren’t going to see that for a generation.
    I agree, ban the parties * all candidates have to stand as independents, and as honestly local to their consituencies. And increase the constituencies in size til they can support maybe 4 elected members, elected on a rolling annual basis (ie no general election, just a constantly evolving parliament representative of the mood of the nation). PM purely a chairman, elected by MPs on a straight vote, secretaries of state and house committees the same way. If you can get a civil service motivated to enable whatever they are instructed to do, maybe that will work. 50-50 chance maybe.
    Don’t reform House of Lords any more just now. If you make it an elected chamber, they will demand some power and de-stabilise all decison-making.
    Alternatively lets have a dictatorship, we might get lucky and have a benign and competent one.

  37. “Some transfers would be sensible and cost effective, like transferring VED onto fuel prices and one wonders why this has never been done as it would also capture additional tax from foreign vehicles being used in the UK”
    According to my brother who has been an HGV driver for more than 30 years, the majority of foreign trucks do not buy fuel in the UK. They have large capacity tanks which are filled on the Continent at a much lower price than the UK. I live in France and can buy diesel in my local supermarket for €1.40 per litre. At a conservative F/X rate of 1.1€ to £1 that is less than £1.30 per litre!

    An alternative taxation system would be to require all vehicles to pay a Motorway tax (Austria and Switzerland already do this). UK taxed vehicles would be be deemed to have paid automatically as part of their VED. All visitors to the UK would be required to buy on either before UK entry or at the port of entry. This seems to work very efficiently in the above two countries even with their numerous border crossings. With the limited number of entry points into the UK it should be simple to administer and enforce.

  38. If you have stock, SELL. Better a year early than a day late. I invested in SLV, hold-in-the-hand, rare banknotes and stamps. Though I don’t think we’ll be needing them at the end of this year! Read what Steve Beckow posted today, founder of the2012scenario, about the upcoming financial situation. And before you do, you might want to call your broker and shout SELL!

  39. @David Simons:
    I agree with you that foreign HGVs fill up before arriving, but there are still a lot of private foreign cars here at any moment.
    On the motorway tax for foreign HGVs. That might be a problem if the foreign HGV driver claims upon arrival that he’s not going to use our motorways! At the same time, setting up motorway tolls only for foreign HGVs would not be cost effective methinks.

  40. @Kfc. The government’s argument against pay-as-you-go tax of any kind has always been that tax revenue necomes unpredictable, so they can’t budget. That doesn’t really hold water becuase with VAT and income tax, the government takes a slice off the top with every transaction – and that’s not predictable.

  41. @BT

    My suggestion covered a Motorway tax only. If a foreign HGV does not use a motorway, then it does not need the the “permit”. It is pretty difficult for an HGV to go anywhere far in the UK without using a Motorway! The driver does not have to declare anything on entry. It is only on entry to a Motorway that the checking would take place. The technology to check the windscreen for a sticker and the processing behind it are existing technologies and can be bought in. The same principle can also be applied to private cars. My comments about HGVs particularly concern two issues. We can obviate the “Foreign Vehicles” test by redesigning the Road Tax licence to include the permit. The Austrians use some form of scannable identification (Hologram?) on their Vignette.

    1. Their fuel tank range obviates the need for most of them to fill up in the UK. This is much less likely with a car.
    2. Fully loaded HGV vehicles cause far more wear and tear than cars.

    However I fear that like many of the more innovative ideas expressed here and elsewhere TPTB will alwas prefer the soft option of taxing the soft targets.

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