ANALYSIS: Why the persecution of Christians is a key 21st century issue.

A Nigerian newspaper on Tuesday published a warning from Boko Haram, the Islamist movement styled on the Taliban, that Christians “had three days to get out of northern Nigeria”. Since the expiry of that ultimatum, attacks in towns in four states in northeastern Nigeria have left at least 44 people dead and hundreds of Christians are fleeing to the south, according to residents and a Red Cross official.

This is merely the latest in a series of atrocities committed by Nigerian Islamists – including a Church massacre on Christmas Day that killed over a hundred. But it is in fact only the high-profile stuff like this (as you’d expect) that tends to get into the MSM. Do a bit of digging around, and you will soon discover why the Harman/Dromey to Guardian axis of Correctness fights rather shy of the issue.

Rebutting a charge of anti-Islamist racism last Thursday, I pointed out that religious violence by radical Islam outweighs that committed by all other religious sects put together – unless of course you include Islamic sects like Sunnis and Shi-ites busy killing each other. But the obverse of this coin is that, as still by far the largest religion in the world, Christians are the most common victims.

Let me make it clear at the outset that I am an agnostic rejecting all organised religions that include a Deity. This has seemed to me for decades to be the only sensible position. But others have different views, and they’re entitled to them – even Mitt Romney. The problem starts when peace-loving religionists need to show and protect their cojones by killing those who disagree – or even, in the case of Christians, simply get in the way.

A comprehensive Pew Forum study reporting in September last year found that Christians are persecuted in 131 countries containing 70% of the world’s population. As there are only around 200 recognised countries on the planet, the Christian religion is easily the most persecuted – and the biggest persecutor is Islam, followed by Communism.

A staggering 200 million Christians live in communities where they are persecuted. Many of the sovereign States committing atrocities against this huge number are ostensible allies of the West such as Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Pakistan, Oman, Egypt, and Kuwait.  Saudi Arabia is a tightly controlled state that in many respects cooperates closely with the United States, but lest you don’t realise this, it is a joint government of the royal House of Saud with the leadership of the extremist Wahhabi Islamist sect. While the Saudi government is a functioning ally of the West, its media reserve the right to both condemn sectional Islamic violence by enemies of the Wahhabi, and incite violence against both Christians and Jews. Palestine’s Hamas has long been associated with the sort of crude anti-Christian bigotry that would make Ulster Protestants of the 1960s look like paragons of ecumenical virtue.

Christianity itself has not, of course, been behind the door when it comes to the persecution of competitors during its 1500+ years of being the established religion across the world. From the mediaeval crusades to centuries of chucking Jews down Russian wells, they too have not so much turned the other cheek as burned the other heathens. But that was then and this is now: in 1380, there was no insane political correctness sector. Today there is, and it – aka the Establishment – chooses to apply the blind eye rather than the other cheek.

David Cameron makes great play of his ‘Christian values’, but the general position of the British Establishment (and the Foreign Office) in the Middle East is to be pro-Arab and anti-Israel. Cameron himself has found a new best friend in Turkey’s Recep Erdogan, a rapidly de-closeting Islamist. The British media almost without exception hailed ‘The Arab Spring’ in an outburst of naivety that had to be read to be believed, but the net effect from Morocco to Libya via Egypt has been to put Islamists in a controlling position in government.

Only yesterday, the American Center for Law & Justice noted that, since the revolution against Mubarak, ‘Egyptian authorities continue to crack down on Christians, tightening the noose round the country’s pro-democracy civil society’ and pointed out the awareness among Coptic Christians there (11% of the population) of how things have deteriorated since the Islamic Brotherhood took a dominant political role. Former Islamic and now bestselling campaigner for women’s rights Ayaan Hirsi Ali wrote just this morning that, ‘From one end of the Muslim world to the other, Christians are being murdered for their faith’.

It’s time we stopped the casual usage of this idiotic description ‘Islamaphobia’ – another use of the ‘p’ suffix enabling liberals to frame all critics of Islam as suffering from some form of mental illness. The only mental illness here is a rigid inability to see the appalling track-record of misogyny, violence, persecution and intolerance that the fundamentalist version of this religion has. A phobia is an irrational fear of something: to fear the march of fascist, expansionist Islam is a sure sign of sanity.

I recognise perfectly well that the usual avalanche of bile, threat and insult will now descend upon The Slog, but this time it would be nice if they debunked the facts set out above rather than trotting out the standard ya-boo “you lot are just as bad” playground stuff. I’m sure in many ways we are: but I’d love to have explained for me why the behaviour of radical Islam is not something we should fear.

Those resorting to the liberal ‘ist’ mode of rejection are entitled to their views: I think they are Useful Idiots being used by the Islamism already rife in Britain, in precisely the same way the KGB used those idiots in favour of unilateral disarmament from 1960-90. But they’re entitled to their opinion. All I can say to all of you is I am neither racist nor religionist. I just think you are mistaking those who warn of an obvious danger with agents of hate desperate to whip up feelings against UK minorities. Of course the latter exist, and at some point over the weekend I shall be lobbing the same dynamite of bollocks deconstruction in their direction. Farbeit from me to show bias.


188 thoughts on “ANALYSIS: Why the persecution of Christians is a key 21st century issue.

  1. JW

    I live in a country that tolerates Muslims to the degree that they are allowed to build their own Mosques – and that in relatively prominent places too. There is one being built in Utrecht and it stands by the side of a main road leading into the city. This graciousness on the part of the Dutch, this openness, is not reflected in many countries where Muslims have charge of the state.

    I am a Christian, however I believe that people should be allowed to believe what they choose as long as it is well thought through. I also believe that it is right to change one’s mind once in a while. Many of you will have seen my change of mind regarding Frau Merkel – though it was not prompted by one or two notable Sloggers trashing my ideas, it came as the result of reasoned argument from another direction.

    I say this in the context of your piece for a Muslim does not have the right to change their mind, not at least where their faith is concerned. Once you are in, that is it. To me this speaks of an element of fear that inhabits the entire setup. Fear is a dangerous emotion in the hands of those who do not know how to deal with it – the sorry saga of the eurozone is one where fears dominate every action from Merkel downwards.

    A real and thoroughly felt belief is one that says “I fear not” and leaves everyone else to work out why. It is not scared that one’s beliefs can be eroded because someone else who professes another faith lives next door.


  2. I am english christian and I reallise and accept that some awful things have been done in the name of christianity by some who claim to be christian, the bible says “by their fruit (life) shall ye know them”. I also agree that christians are not the best advert for faith. Yes, I stand behind the athiest who said no prayers in council chambers too BUT if we claim to be a christian country we should not give aid money to countries where christians are persecuted.


  3. the American centre for law and justice is an evangelical group founded by pat Robertson, with a messianic jew as its chief council. Not exactly an unbiased source to be referring to.


  4. I too come from John’s agnostic point of view and cannot for the life of me understand how atheists do not get the basic point: It’s God or Caesar.

    You’re not magically going to solve the world’s problems by getting rid of God.

    We’ve seen Godless societies. Look at the history of China.

    In fact much of the enterprise recently in China is to do with the growth of Protesantism in that country, something that would not have been possible earlier in its history.

    Some of the attacks on John in the last week have been ferocious, unpleasant and unmerited.

    I am not going to talk about things we must not, for now, talk about.

    But I can talk in general terms about a series of cases involving Muslim rape gangs, because there are many such now in prison.

    The cry goes up: “You wouldn’t be interested if they weren’t Muslim.”

    This is not true. Discussing the Catholic Church’s recent history is interesting to many. And they are allowed to talk and write about it. This is true to the extent that every other stand-up comedian I see these days has a joke about it. Yet I’ve never heard one make a joke about a Muslim rape gang.

    The history of Islam, I am afraid, does make what these men do culturally significant.

    Do not take it from me. Take it from a Muslim apostate (to all the illiterate Guardian readers, that’s an ex-Muslim). Islam, as this writer explains, has a cultural history of using sexual terror to subjugate non-Muslims.

    The residue of that cultural outlook – of using sexual terror – is in play in all those cases where Muslim rape gangs have been convicted: It’s what gives rise to their depraved arrogance.

    And look at how society submits (the word Islam means submission).

    The victims of rape are cowed. The law enforcement agencies are terrified of prosecuting them and do so only when matters have gone grotesquely out of hand. Cultural commentators, be they newspaper columnists or allegedly ’fearless’ comedians are terrified of talking about what they do.

    The Islamic aspect to this co-ordinated and systematic abuse is not something to be ignored. Quite the opposite.


  5. Almost without exception, religions are totalitarian in nature and are therefore the enemy of freedom, individual thinking and prosperity. Islam is almost certainly the worst example of this nonsense a this time but others have had their day. Although many people choose to differentiate between religious totalitarianism and political totalitarianism, they are essentially two sides of the same coin because religious totalitarians apply the same top-down autocracy to politics, economics and societies when they gain power… force, and death is dealt out to anybody who dares to challenge it.


  6. In a city outside Paris called Trappes,there is a high population of muslims. The fathers, uncles, sons & brothers put pressure on their females to wear the veil/headscarf. All women/girls who do not do this are verbally abused & in some cases physically attacked by the men/youths who hang around these huge blocks of flats, intimidating everyone. The women have formed an association to resist this, & they made a TV programme about it. I have heard nothing more, but I don’t suppose for one moment it has stopped.
    I wonder how long it will be before this will be happening in Tower Hamlets?
    I have heard that people(black & white) are having a hard time of it in Bury Park, Luton, as certain muslims there want them to get out, in order to make it a completely muslim area. Our purblind politicians are playing a very dangerous game by appeasing these extremists.

    I have heard that elderly people, both black & white, are being intimidated by having rubbish dumped in their front gardens, bricks thrown through their windows & verbal abuse when they dare to venture out in Bury Park, Luton.



  7. Thank you for standing up for Christians. We are indeed persecuted – and to see more look at It is so tragic that people in this country – many of the ‘educated’, are happy to endorse this persecution. Usually when you challenge them they have never even read a Gospel – just ‘stuff’ in the press.


  8. Homo sapiens believes it is consists of highly rational beings, even to its choice of name, however, we may, as a species, be able to learn, see and understand complexity in reality and abstract, etc. but that does not make us rational, and we are plainly not as the ubiquity of religious belief demonstrates as they are all fundamentally based on blind, i.e. the irrational, faith that a God took a person or persons on one side and explained everything to them.

    Religion always was and still is a political tool for mass manipulation, sometimes in support of a particular religion or sect, sometimes against. It is a very dangerous particularly dishonest tool that is likely to turn around and chop your head off, but it also very, very powerful. For stable, educated and affluent societies it is seen as being too dangerous to use so it is largely neutered, not expurgated as you never know when a particularly potent weapon might be needed, and when used circumspectly in moderation can prove very useful.

    For unstable, ill-educated, highly stressed and/or poor or impoverished societies it is a weapon of choice, either by the State, its opponents or often both because it has so many potential uses; as a diversion for the State’s own failings passing the blame on to others, 1930s Germany for example, to attack other power groups, to confiscate desirable assets from groups of a largely different religious or non-religious belief, to foster a feeling of oppression or danger among supporters, to call supporters to their ‘duty’ to name but a few.


  9. JW

    So you have identified ‘a problem’, but as I am aka ‘a pinched goblin’ I have not noticed you offering any solutions.

    I am sure prospective ‘Radical Realists’ would naturally expect you to elucidate your solution.

    So are going to tell us the cure?

    For my two pennies the only way forward is to assist in the long process of the improved education of everybody with special emphasis on respect to everyone, but I fear that you might dismiss this as too Guardian (although I can not believe you dismiss their work on Hackgate, so even they can not be all bad.

    PS was Tom Cobbleigh Arab/Muslim as well?


  10. … in 1380, there was no insane political correctness sector. Today there is, and …

    And, it cannot be said often enough; the jackasses at the BB Bloody C, the Socialist Governments, the Feminazi’s and the EU are all to blame for this political correctness, straightjacket they have so self-righteously fitted us up with.

    Religion, imv, has always been made into a tool for manipulating the masses by the self-promoted people at the top of the pyramid.


  11. @BT

    the words you use show your attitude to the world that surrounds you.

    Why is it that in this modern world of ours, a religion needs to be organized? – and then think: where is the justification for all this organization in the Gospels (in the instance of Chrisitanity in any case)?

    There is none.

    The things you complain of – at least in the respect of Christianity – are man-made and not God made. Man has wanted the security of someone knowing more than he did, and that was pretty well the case until the last couple of centuries. There are still those who prefer that a priest gives them the sacraments because they have not the time or energy or will to study these things for themselves.


  12. Just a Housewife

    Religion has been made into a tool of manipulation, just like politics and many other things in European society. That to me does not mean that religion – or at least my own Christianity – should be abused in this way. What is needed however, is people who will stand up and take it back: not by fighting the powers but by making them irrelevant. Make your religion your own, and nobody can take it from you.

    That can be said for political beliefs too.


  13. @Gemz:
    the words you use show your attitude to the world that surrounds you.

    I have no idea what you meant by this comment.

    The things you complain of – at least in the respect of Christianity

    Actually Gemz I didn’t complain about Christianity except by collective reference. And with good reason for the very reasons John W cites in his original piece (The Crusades etc).

    I have no problem whatsoever wth anybody having a religious belief system or any other belief system. I take exception to anybody who tries to ram their beliefs and compliance down my throat at the end of a gun. But that is what most religions have done or do. Islam is by far the worst at this time in the history of mankind. Hence I see most religions as totalitarian because that’s what they are.


  14. “Altergoman”
    “For my two pennies the only way forward is to assist in the long process of the improved education of everybody with special emphasis on respect to everyone, but I fear that you might dismiss this as too Guardian (although I can not believe you dismiss their work on Hackgate, so even they can not be all bad.”

    Do you not realise that Muslims dont care who you are or what you think, no amount of education or respect is gonna change their point of view. You and I are Kuffars to them Infidels who do not deserve to live, its just that I as a christian stand in front of you to be either be re-educated to their beliefs or killed. THEY DONT DO LIVING TOGETHER IN PEACE


  15. I’ve always been of the view that if we eliminated all religion we’d then spend all of our time arguing over whose science was the most accurate.

    Religion is a proxy for dealing with peoples fear of death. It becomes easy to manipulate for political elites once that fact is taken into account.

    Islam is one of the worst culprits for this buy again it seems to me that of it wasnt Islam it would be some other means to manipulate a willing population. As John often says, “it’s te species stupid”

    The only deity i have time for is Steve Redgrave, and the difference between him and Jesus/Mohammed etc… well he’s not imaginary for a start!


  16. JW. As a Bible believing Christian I much appreciated your mature and perceptive comment. I think Christians everywhere agree with your heading that this is the “Key 21st century issue. But of course it is not new. and every generation of Christians have experienced such persecution. The concentration on Christians is understandable as, despite the aberration of the Crusades and other “Christian” examples of violence, Moslems and secular authorities know well that Christians do not retaliate.
    Linked to this is the now open moves towards a totalitarian reign in no less a place than the USA where Obama is, step by step, undermining and seeking to destroy the Constitution, and specifically the 1st Amendment.
    “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ”
    As Mark Steyn points out re the USA it is the growing Statism which is menacing their freedom of religion and liberties:
    “The bigger the State – the smaller everything else” – as we know already in Europe and the UK under the “soft” totalitarianism of the EU.

    For another perceptive comment see Bill Muehlenberg’s comment today on just how dangerous Obama is to the USA.
    Thanks again John for drawing this to the attetion of your bloggers.


  17. “Do you not realise that Muslims dont care who you are or what you think, no amount of education or respect is gonna change their point of view. You and I are Kuffars to them Infidels who do not deserve to live, its just that I as a christian stand in front of you to be either be re-educated to their beliefs or killed. THEY DONT DO LIVING TOGETHER IN PEACE”

    Absolutely spot on.


  18. John, it’s good of you to point out the persecution of Christians by Muslems. The MSM avoids the subject for reasons that I can only guess at. I have given up trying to be a Christian in any way other than to admit that my morals are influenced by Christianity, but not exclusively so. I don’t believe in an immortal soul, but I do believe in a soul that dies when the body dies.

    I researched and studied Islam a year or so ago. I even read most of the Quran. I concluded that there is no shame in the label “Islamophobe.” For a non-Muslem to fear Islam is to have a sense of self-preservation. Last week a court in Canada convicted an Afgan man, his wife, and his son of drowning their two teenage daughters and their cousin for becoming influenced by Canada’s western lifestyle. I didn’t get all the details such as whether or not the girls had boyfriends. Whatever they were doing it did not accord with the parents’ Islamic ideology. It dishonored them. Hence, the family performed an “honor killing.” They were sentenced to life imprisonment. Of course, the defendants are appealing; so who knows what the final sentence will be. The point I am trying to make here is simple: Islamophobia is a healthy attitude for non-Muslims and non-conforming Muslims to have.


  19. @JAH;
    “Religion, imv, has always been made into a tool for manipulating the masses by the self-promoted people at the top of the pyramid.”
    This is my view too.


  20. “Religion, imv, has always been made into a tool for manipulating the masses by the self-promoted people at the top of the pyramid.” [thanks to JAH]
    It’s like a Ponzi scheme but this one is known as “Popeski” scheme.
    It enriches them.


  21. Bollocks. The Christians who survived and thrived under Islamic law under the Ottoman Empire in places like (modern) Iraq and Syria are now being persecuted and displaced because of NATO aggression. Shame on you for your islamophobia. But we know where this comes from. Shalom.


  22. I am a Christian but I don’t go to church any more, the problem being that the last church I went to was being run by someone who was a Jesuit, and the church was supposed to be Protestant. I wrote to the Archbishop of Canterbury and also to the Bishop of my parish asking why a Jesuit was running a Protestant church but had no reply.

    This might seem a very trivial thing to people who are not of the Christian faith, but to me it is a question of authority, as Jesuits submit to the Vatican, the Pope, wheras Protestants submit to God, not a go between for God. Catholics pray to Mary, mother of God, but Protestants pray directly to Jesus, as it says we can in the Bible.

    What worries me is the deciet of the thing. If I wanted to be a member of the Catholic church I would find a Catholic church, but going to a Protestant church and accidentally finding out it was being run by a Catholic is not very good.


  23. @BT
    You mentioned coins:
    If you take a look at any UK coin you will see the inscription FD or FID DEF. Fidei Defensor or Defender of the Faith -and the UK state religion is Christianity.
    Since dropped by many commonwealth countries, but retained by Canada, which has no state religion, but took it to mean Defender of Faith in general.
    It seems that HM is neglecting her duties.


  24. Having seen the Monty Python film “The Life of Brian” I find it completely impossible to take Christianity seriously any more. The film quite succinctly summed up the whole ridiculous charade.


  25. Dear god the day of religious moronity has begun. To state that Islam is the biggest danger and acknowledge Christianity’s dubious past as just “in the past” is to side step the real issue and to embrace the divisive dogma engrained in these foolish books and their mentally retarded followers/believers. Any assault on religion should be head on and all inclusive

    Christianity currently enjoys its status as a moderate Lovey dovey religion because it has been beaten into retreat by a secular society armed with science as opposed to the bronze age bull shit spouted by priests and imams. This has come at an enormous price for those tortured and killed by Christian fruit cakes but it was arguably worthwhile because we are not ruled by them. Take your eye off the ball (or spend it on Islam) too long and these christian fruit cakes will be burning maiming killing child raping before u can say can say mother Theresa

    Whilst religion and it’s obsession with brainwashing children into religious morons is tolerated, the violence it facilitates will flourish. And all you lovey dovey types are just enablers of these vile abusive (irony not wasted) ideologies. Mother Theresa’s influence that “birth control is murder” in poor uneducated countries, thus subjecting untold misery and diseaese is probably enough said


  26. @ Alex purser
    Even sadder, more moronic and much more worrying. These modern-day witch-burning lunatics have apparently taken over the USA presidential candidates.


  27. John, thankyou for drawing attention to this issue – it is something which is very rarely discussed outside of christian activist circles. The only way one can usually become aware of it is by reading christian publications, or blogs like this.

    My uncle was forcibly expelled from Nigeria during the Biafran wars in Nigeria (and he is not Christian or Muslim), so this is also an issue that affects those who are simply “not Muslilm”.

    As others (especially Bankrupt Taxpayer) have pointed out, organised religion is generally totalitarian – at the expense of tolerance, freedom of thought and action, and education. Islam fits this description, although as with Christianity, there are so many social activists and champions of freedom within those communities that the overall issue becomes quite complex.

    What I would like to comment on would be the historical context as it relates to today. In general, almost all countries that count majority islamic populations have been invaded and made client states of what we call “the West”.

    Today “the West” is made up of one majority Christian superpower (the USA) and various majority atheist countries (the EU, UK, Australia, Canada, etc.). However, even in the majority atheist countries, they are historically Christian, and all of their systems of power (governments, laws and corporations) are founded on, or from, Christian systems of organisation (that is, hierarchical, entrenched power, supreme rulers/prime ministers with councils of bishops/parliaments, and an insatiable desire to convert/invade other non-believers).

    This is not an attack against Christians, or in support of Muslims, but merely to draw out the ideas that:
    1. Organised religion, monarchies and authoritarian governments all share very similar structures in the way they concentrate power in the hands of a very few, and suppress freedom of the individual.

    2. That even though we call it “the West” today, it could just as easily be called “the remnants of organised christianity hidden in plain sight”.

    3. That the West’s continuing and well-documented support of oppressive Islamic regimes, theft of resources, and mass murder of civilian Muslim populations is seen as a Christian occupation by those populations (if for no other reason than rulers like GW Bush use Christian and God rhetoric to support their moral decision to murder and steal).

    Permit me an analogy, which may result in a lot of negative comments, but makes the point I think:

    Some feminists still say “There is a patriarchy, and women are still fighting for their rights to be heard and to be free…”

    On the surface, feminists have nothing to worry about – they have freedom to vote, to work, to have welfare – to be anything they want – there are even anti-discrimination laws which guarantee this.

    However, realism dictates a closer look:
    -when gold is mined, it is mined by a man, with machinery owned by a man, for a company owned by a man, with a board of directors of (probably all) men.
    -when the gold is sold, it is bought by men, shipped by men on ships owned by men, to a country like the USA…run by a man.
    -when the Federal Reserve chairman (a man) gets the gold into the Fed, he can, with his Federal Reserve Board of men and Hank Paulson, decide to print billions more than the gold is worth and give it to his friends Goldman Sachs, JP Morg and co….who are all companies run by men.

    So in a “post-feminist” age, a tiny group of men in the Fed and their banker cronies can transfer wealth from millions of people to themselves, without a single woman in the loop.

    So even though the feminist is wrong to say that nothing has changed, she is right to say that the systems of power and authority that are embedded in our culture are still controlled by men (a patriarchy), even though most men would consider themselves on an equal footing with women.

    These remnants of power are just what we face in a “post-christian” age right now. Most of the christians are gone, turned into atheists, but the structures and habits of power remain, and surely the west acts now, just like it did in the 12th century (with a few more fancy words and marketing today).

    So my argument is that it is the system, not the person (Muslim, Christian, Atheist or otherwise). For a long time now, the argument of any ruler has been to make an enemy and that we the christians/democrats/muslims/economists must go and take their land because they are inferior. All power makes the same argument, only the label changes.

    So I am not Muslim or Christian, but I live in a christian country, and how am I contributing to this problem?

    When two authoritarian states attack each other, they strengthen the positions of radicals within each respective country. So you get more wars from “security fears” on one side, and a radicalisation of religion and violence on the other (fear of the “Great Satan”).

    By continuing to attack majority Islamic countries, the west is fuelling and driving Christian persecution, as well as islamic fundamentalism, terrorism, and the restriction of freedoms in those countries. This deliberately gives the western powers a “strategy of tension” at home where they do the same thing to us (restricting freedoms, etc.).

    Islamic persecution of Christians is a problem, but the west is making it into a bigger problem so that it can better subdue it’s own domestic populations with more authority and austerity. The west, with it’s new economic religion, needs an enemy, just like Islamic states do. This alone shows how we, the people, have not got rid of the same monsters who led us into the crusades on both sides.

    That is our mission…to remove them. Then the reconciliation can begin properly….


  28. I am a Leeds United supporter. By this I mean I look out for their scores each week, hope they do well, and a few times have actually been to a live match to watch them play. The reason I am a Leeds supporter is because as a young child you had to pick a team, and Leeds (under Revie) were doing well at the time. And of course you NEVER switch your football team!

    My reason for saying this is because for millions it is identical to their Christianity. Those with football season tickets would laugh at me being a Leeds “supporter”. And those of us with a vibrant Christian faith would consider those who are nominally Christian to not actually be Christians… for the word means a follower of Christ, which entails a daily “taking up one’s cross” and seeking for the life of Christ to change you from the inside out.

    For a couple of years I have appreciated “The Slog” and John’s insight into so much of what is happening. Jesus was actually similar in His time, exposing and standing up to the hypocrisy of the day. Please keep at it John!


  29. …..Or possibly Jesus was a derranged fantasist rambling on about being the son of god, forgiving people for vile things they’ve done to other people (?!) and being the subject of loads of made up stories about resurrections and miracles. Perhaps John has all this to look forward to?


  30. And the Baath party in Iraq and Syria have nothing to do with this then !
    Fool ! Once Syria is ‘free’ you will see what happens to the small number of Chritians there – just the same as the Small number of Iraqi christians ! (After the NATO withdrawal)

    Islamic ‘sects’ hate each other but agree that they hate other and ‘no’ religions more !

    The difference between christianity and other religions is that we had ‘the enlightenment’ ! Before this time Christianity certainly had its barbarisms – but since – I think that there have been none/few commited in its name ! (Maybe excepting the Balkan conflict – but the details of this are obscurred by the PC ‘correct victim’ diatribe and was not a ‘Christian’ war.)


  31. What an abusive and inflammatory post. Modern Christianity has a very positive influence on society, in that it provides many with a moral code of conduct to live by. If we had more Christians in modern Britain, there would be a lot less thuggery and theft. Christianity also gives people something to believe in that is greater than/above themselves. The alternative is a society dominated by a “me me me” culture; rampant materialism; and a cult of the self that leaves people ill-prepared to deal with the rough and tumble of life, as a lack of perspective renders every minor personal setback an unmitigated disaster – in other words, the UK today.


  32. As a non religious poster I can see from your posting that you have absolutely no knowledge of christianity or its teachings, let alone Islam !

    Whats wrong ? Afraid you are wrong ?

    You can tell you are in a bad way when the ‘oh so knowledgeable’ Erica gives you her support :)


  33. Altergoman

    Have you heard of Mehdi Hassan? He’s editor of the New Statesman, and a darling of the Left. He also thinks you are an “animal”. Watch the YouTube recordings of Mehdi, linked from below.

    By the way, Mehdi often writes for CiF in the Guardian. If you link to those videos, your posting rights to CiF are removed for good. Despite CiF parading CP Scott’s dictum that “Facts are sacred”, when they involve Muslims, they must not be aired in public. Frankly,. if you do not think Islam is a threat to Western Civilisation, you are an idiot. Indeed, one of John’s “useful” idiots.;wap2


  34. Thank you, John, for this most important post. I have said before, unless the west wakes up, and pretty soon, we can kiss goodbye to scientific progress, any form of ‘fun’ see Khomeini’s ‘there is no fun in Islam’, also his advocacy of ‘thighing’; a rapid return to the Dark Ages awaits us. I could carry on ad nauseum. I am no racist – merely a realist. And yes, I am female and I am in great fear for the future of my sex. Just one point, John, there really is no such thing as a moderate muslim – only Islam – check out ‘taqyyia’. The question remains, however, what can we do?


  35. Historical evidence is moving towards the idea that Jesus existed.

    Suppose, just suppose that he was Crucified and was only in a coma when taken down and buried after all – the Bible does not say he was given a full medical examination does it ? Overnight he came around ! That people at the time thought he was back from the dead has no bearing – in those times it was true ! Thus to condemn the stories in the bible as made up is ridiculous if it was what they percieved to be the case and they wrote them down – or passed them on.

    Many old testament ‘stories’ are being seen as having happened as well. That those relaying them saw it as an act of god (which is what they understood) does not make the stories untrue.

    All in all I am getting more and more convinced – by your desperate (and unthinking hatred of Christianity) that you really are just afraid that you are wrong :)


  36. It’s not just happening in the UK, either. From a truly enlightening article called “Eurabian Nights” by Srdja Trifkovic:

    “Thomas Anderberg, head of statistics for the Malmö police, reported a doubling of “rapes by ambush” in 2004. Almost all of the increase is attributable to Muslim men raping Swedish women.

    “…. Next door in Norway and Denmark, two thirds of all men arrested for rape are “of non-western ethnic origin”—the preferred euphemism for Middle Eastern and North African Muslims—although they account for under five percent of their residents. The number of rapes in Oslo in the summer of 2006 was twice that of the previous summer. All “gang rapes” in Denmark in 2004 were committed by immigrants and “refugees.”


  37. “Take your eye off the ball (or spend it on Islam) too long and these christian fruit cakes will be burning maiming killing child raping before u can say can say mother Theresa”

    Were you abused by a Catholic priest when you were younger or something?


  38. Curious – but not surprising, I suppose – the number of comments here claiming that religion in general ( and Christianity in particular) is a deluded fantasy or a cynical plot against the masses.
    True or not, it doesn’t really address the point of the blog – Moslems are persecuting Christians and this largely goes unreported or unremarked here in the Progressive, multi-culti west.
    And it’s already starting to happen here in Britain.


  39. Morningstar,

    “Historical evidence is moving towards the idea that Jesus existed.” This is an evidence-based site (supposedly). Link please?


  40. ADB the thuggery and theft you describe has been rampant throughout christianity – unsuprisingly when children are indoctrinated en mass with strange jesus god jibberish and abdicate their morality to a “higher power” they become perfect fodder for organised violence – USA today is probably a great example but we can focus on rag heads if you prefer?

    there are clearly many reasons for the state of the UK but i would suggest looking at where the rich are taking their money rather than invoking the freaky powers of the holy ghost!

    as for the rough and tumble of daily life i would suggest you grow up, deal with it while you can because when you are rotting in a hole the show is definately over


  41. Hiya Gemz,

    Indeed, this mosque building thing a matter that is urgently in need of a review. On the one side, when the things are built the Moosels do their damnest to avoid paying the bills (a high-profile case in Cologne at the moment). On the other, in Mooslem lands either there is a total ban on building churches (extreme case – Saudi Arabia) or the existing ones, and their congregations, are being systematically destroyed, as JW has brought to our attention.

    Personally, I’d shut every last one of them down. Then, to make a fresh start, I would have a word in the shell-like of the bossman in Mecca to the effect that, for every church that is allowed to carry on its business in a Mooslum land, you Moosels can have one in Europe. If a church in a Mooslem land is subjected to, let us say “sanctions”, then a mosque in Europe will also be subjected to “sanctions”.

    After all, shouldn’t ‘tolerance’ be a two-way street?

    Meanwhile, has this one cropped up on your radar – it is on your patch.

    “Councillor in Groningen intends to wear burqas

    The Dutch Green-Left councilor Karin Dekker (photo) has called for a protest against the ban on the burqa. She urges all women who want to participate in this to acquire a burka and, should the law be passed, to wear them. Dekker hopes that as many people as possible will follow her call. On Friday the Dutch cabinet decided to place a ban on face-coverring clothing (PI reported). This will includes not just burqas, but also full-face helmets and Bivak caps.”

    ‘twould actually be a pity if she hid herself in one of those tents – she’s actually quite good looking. Of the 104 comments, I vote this one as the best:

    “I can already see all the ladies in the Amsterdam red light district sitting in the windows wearing a burqa. At last we will be called upon to use our imaginations.”


  42. Morning Star – can i ask what pertinant teachings i am missing from these moronic books? How many fantasists must i indulge?

    Definately not afraid im wrong – kind of embaressed to have to indulge that with a response but it is oronic religious day so i guess its inevitable!.. i will leave poor Erica to you and the jeebers crew for correction if its all the same!


  43. As a recovering Catholic, I would just like to say Amen to that ;)

    To JW’s conviction that the British establishment is a seething bed of arabists: perhaps, but as ever the picture is more complex; those doing most of the string-pulling seem to be very much pro-Israeli – witness the destabilisation of the remaining independent, non-client states in the middle east and the ongoing series of “revolutions”, helped along nicely (or do I mean wholly created?) by our own spooks and special forces.

    We in the west created radical Islam as the force it is today, from installing the House of Saud and their fundie cronies and paying them oil billions, through funding and training the mujihadeen in Afghanistan onwards.

    So I think we’re back to the question JW posited a couple of days ago: namely, why do those in power do what they do, when it would appear on the face of it to work against our own interests time and time again? Perhaps their interests are not yours?


  44. Morningstar – Historical evidence is moving towards the idea that Jesus existed.

    Flavius Josephus, the Jewish Historian, who lived at the time of Jesus says in his Works, Book XVIII Chap. III:
    “Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,- a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ;” etc etc.


  45. @Erika
    February 11, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    Try discovery channel, history channel, Nat geo etc etc.
    They have produced many good documentaries on the subject between them. I’m sure there are good links to be found if you are really interested, But all good research requires a little effort. Wheat and chaff needs the business doing when you Google however :)


  46. We are slowly being destroyed from within.
    As an Iman recently said, “Remember, we are amongst you”
    The Baroness Uddin should have not got off so lightly, why, her “faith” perhaps?
    Establishment is again asleep at the wheel.
    And for some unknown reason terrified of rocking the boat. Fools.


  47. Christians do not “abdicate” their morality to a higher power, they draw their morality from it. Maybe if the “rich” in the UK had followed afdvice such as “Thou shalt not steal” or “Thous shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house”, maybe you wouldn’t be blaming them for the UK’s ills. As for “growing up and dealing with it”, I’m agnostic actually, and your posts suggest you need to do a bit of growing up yourself.


  48. It will go unreported until the Progressives/Socialists, get off their idealogical posts and start facing up to the reality of truth.



    Of course they don’t. It is explicitly forbidden in the Koran. For Mooslums, the Koran contains the complete operating instructions for everyday living – and these instructions are to be observed to the letter!

    When are our do-gooders finally gonna acknowledge this simple fact? After all, if just that is used as a baseline, and all of our political actions and policies are based upon it, the number of problems we are having with this ideologies will surely be reduced – eventually!


  50. Morningstar you seem to have missed your calling – like the moronic priest insisting my protests to the contrary were in fact appreciation of “gods work” as i gulped down his ejaculate. Maybe your “reasoning” will be more effecytive on younger minds?

    but back to jesus, if people said it was true and wrote it down then who am i to argue… after all ive never seen or heard a single account of deranged fantasists in the middle east… can we do UFOs next or shall we do fairys and goblins? (incidentally im quite scared trhat they may not be real also!)


  51. morningstar/wifey
    and then alexanderus persurus did say that may men would come with tales of moronic fantasy from the desert, and blood would be spilt and robed men would mollest young boys and then be reerected to once more shower us with the love of our lord jesus

    its all true i wrote it down! = morons and fantasists!

    to take on the unpleasentness of faith based moronity from a position which in any way indulges faith is….. you guessed it, moronic!


  52. yes but i prefer to think of it as receiving the love of our lord jesus Jon… i think ive been one of the ones that got away lighter from these freaky god cult nut jobs


  53. Well I am a Traditional Roman Catholic, and believe 100% what the only divinely instituted Church teaches. More people, mainly Christians, were killed by Soviet and Chinese atheistic regimes in the 20th century than all the previous centuries. The Catholic Church is in a terrible crisis, like she has never been before, but Christ said that he would be with her till the end of time. We are living through what is biblical prophecy, and foretold by the saints, which will get worse, as Christianity, and the Roman Catholic Church in particular, is persecuted. We know this, as Christ told us it would happen. Christ gave us his first pope, Peter, on which he built his Church. Protestantism is heresy, pure and simple. That is not to say that the Church has been a paragon of virtue – at times far from it – after all St. Peter, one of our greatest saints denied Christ three times and was rebuked by Jesus to “get behind me Satan”. Yet, the Holy Roman Catholic Church was built on this imperfect edifice, and it will remain the only means to gain salvation. End of.

    You can cite any number of atrocities of the church, both now and in the past, but it doesn’t remove the fact that Christ created the Church through whom the eternal truths of the Christian faith were revealed and will remain. St. Thomas More died defending his Church even having lived through the debauchery of the Borgia popes. You can call me a crank, an idiot, a Christian fundamentalist and poor scorn on me – you won’t be the first, nor the last – I just call myself a Roman Catholic, happy to be in the company of More, Bishop Fisher, and the 40 English saints who had the cajones to stand firm against the English Pol Pot and die for their faith.

    The Church has always had her enemies, the Jews, the Moslems and militant atheism. Europe came close to being overrun in the 16th century and at the Battle of Lepanto she drove back the Turkish hordes. We are on the cusp of another terrible war, this is also in Catholic prophecy. As I believe in the existence of heaven and hell where one will end up for an eternity, then I know where I wish to be: with St Thomas More, Becket, Margaret Clitheroe and other English saints in heaven.


  54. ADD point taken with the growing up thing
    Christians as with all subscribers to deistic moronity do abdicate their morality though im afraid… it is not possible to draw morality from a god that doesnt exist so one is therefore handing their moral compass to the freaky guys that wander round deserts claiming that god talks to them and their subsequent subscribers…. not people you should feel comfortable leaving your kids with i would guess

    im looking forward to the day the rich of our country go near any of the ten commandments – on the bright side i imagine they may feel quite comfortable with moses self rightous killing sprees!


  55. Exactly what Our Lady recommended when she gave us the Holy Rosary. Catholic Christendom used it to repel the vastly superior Muslim forces at the Battle of Lepanto, and some of us still pray it daily.


  56. Not only was the swipe at Ulster Protestants unnecessary, it also seems to overlook the fact that Ulster Protestants ARE Christians;


  57. yes Erika stick to accounts that can be corroborated by credible witnesses and only indulge “phenomina” that can be reproduced in laboratory conditions…. good luck with google!


  58. blah blah blah..where exactly do you place the catholic church on the scale of 1 to stalin? surely your divine movement can aspire to greater things? how useful that your moronic books prophesise a great war though – perfect to take kids minds off the daily helping of the priests holy water i guess…

    this is an evidence based site – please provide some basis for your heaven/hell gibberish


  59. @JW,
    As a mostly passive but avid reader of your blog I find that my views are usually better and more quickly represented by other posters than I could manage myself.
    As a long term resident of Greece I have been inspired by the interest sloggers have shown in the goings on here but am frustrated by the negative stereotypes that sometimes creep into the comments. In a nutshell I believe that there is clear evidence of bad behaviour to be found in ruling classes everywhere and the Greeks are mostly just unlucky at the moment to have been left without a chair when the music stopped.
    Slightly different circumstances could have put a more outwardly correct nation under the glaring and unsympathetic spotlight of mass media exposure.
    I found a comment on another site that gives a very good insight into the average Greek’s position regarding their current dilemma.
    I’m not so interested in the article as the comments by @pcubed responding to @curmudgeon.
    Getting back on topic there has been a strong Islamic aspect to the history of modern Greece. Those scoffing at the Greek defence budget are not thinking it through. Anyway we are not allowed to cancel the running procurement contracts with Germany and France.
    Look at Cyprus and Kastelorizo in the context of recent oil discoveries in the Eastern Aegean. Consider Turkey’s response to this and matters of international waters and so on. Invasions of Greek airspace by Turkish warplanes are daily occurences and the attempt by Turkey to lay claim to a barren rock called Imia a while back nearly caused a war. (Falklands anyone?)
    Greece and much of the Balkans were under Othoman rule within almost living memory.
    Life under Islam is no picnic for the non believers. Termed Dhimmi, they are clearly second class citizens as amply demonstrated wherever you choose to look for them.
    Islam views land once occupied by Islam much the way it views it’s apostates.
    Plans for the reacquisition (if such a word exists) of land once occupied by Islam are always underway with a very long timescale, (think generations) which is not readily perceived by short-termist media and politicians. Demographic warfare is the best title I can find.
    Recent Balkan wars amply demonstrate the above, also consider the regular presence of Wahabi funded radical Imans in Balkan Muslim communities.
    Greece is currently experiencing demographic warfare through the orchestrated immigration of so-called refugees, recently from the Middle East and North Africa, prior to that from Albania. What these immigrants have in common is Islam.
    Turkey actively funnels refugees into Greece, much more aggressively than the French cheekily did to the British at Sangatte.
    We are not so fortunate as Italy, recently shunting immigrants North to the chagrin of her neighbours. Getting out of Greece is much harder than getting in.
    In the case of the Albanian immigration, subterfuge was used so that along with a relatively small number of Greek minority Pontians repatriated in response to Samaras’ sabre rattling,(yes him again in an earlier brief incarnation as New Democracy Foreign Minister) a goodly number of criminals and so on, (apparently as well as the inmates of mental institutions) were sent across the border in the same way Castro dealt with his domestic problems.
    Muslim Albanians are now well integrated into the rural communies of Greece where they are naturalised and no longer pretend to be Christian, finding the Greeks more laid back than they had expected.
    Some of my friends were taken in during the early days and baptised the children of these families, a significant bonding gesture in Greece, only to later find out that the family was Muslim. Anything goes while securing Dar al Islam.
    One only has to look at Kosovo to see the potential consequences of this infiltration.
    With regards the various European enclaves of Islam it is curious that nearly all legislation seems to favour them over the indigenous population, any apparent slight of their rights is immediately pounced on and becomes an issue.
    As mentioned by @Jeremy Poynton above the “religionofpeace” website is a real eye opener.
    On a lighter note, many Greeks think that Samaras must be a necrophiliac because he so badly wants to have Greece that he doesn’t care if she just happens to be dead.


  60. that said Gemz religion and your christianity should be assaulted from all angles that it reveals itself… if it was your own business then you wouldnt be here sticking up for your freaky jesus cult that happily inbdoctrinates young children with bronze age drivle….. this is supposed to be an evidence based site but is rife with religous gibberish – shame on you!


  61. Oh how you love your god of science!! A god who changes his mind on matters just because he can! Well read and then tell me how your god shapes up. There is a Creator and we are the Created. Period. The hallowed theory of evolution is quackery based on bollocks imposed by the state, and taught in schools, to brainwash the masses, and you? so that we will turn away from the Creator.


  62. Not sure what you’re referring to there, Alex, but if it was “already starting to happen here in Britain”, how about Tower Hamlets with its Islamic notices warning against homosexuality; or the recent case of two Christian preachers whose collars were felt by the Old Bill for preaching in an “Islamic area” (in Britain).
    Is that horrid enough for you?


  63. Dear Moron
    I will shortly view your galileo blog because im in a humerous mood.

    Normally adjusted people wont need this assistance but the reason science, sorry “god of science” if you need a smiley man to help you grasp this noun, can change “its” mind is that “it” is able to learn, to test, to admit mistakes. These concepts are so alien to you because you personify the complete intellectual retardation that i refer to when vulnerable children’s minds are hijacked by religious fruitcakes. Secular society has been fighting to eradicate the dangers that people like you present for centuries.

    On a brighter note your arrival here is a great illustration of the dangers i repeatedly discuss – i genuinely think someone like you could be readily capable of almost any attrocity

    Furthermore i fear you may have been sent here to test my faith in evidence and reason based discussions

    Kindest Regards
    Alexanderus Purserus, appostle no 13 and so called “virgin” Mary’s dirtiest secret


  64. Reply to Alex Purser. Blah Blah, Blah. My God is not my imagination, my God is real. He died on a cross for you and me. Stalin was evil, communism is an atheistic creed, the devil’s spawn foisted on us by Jews. My divine movement has inspired many to be saints. All you can do is attack and vent spite… in your fear that you might be wrong. At least we try and educate our kids in the things that are holy, good, truth. What do you educate yours on? State education? the tv? MSM? Where do you find your truth?


  65. It didn’t do that so much for me as make me wonder how JW could overlook three letters which go a long way to explain why the hypocrisy he points to is so much in effect: O I L


  66. Reply to Alex Purser below. And all you can do is resort to spite, and demean yourself, and attack my faith, because that is so easy. You must fear the truth so much that you feel the need to vent your spleen this way. Now read the link I posted and tell me how much you love your god of science.


  67. FrankS, i agree totally about the vileness of Islam – i just think it ,must be confronted from an athiest/secular stance to be valid.

    There are many good reasons for this but most notable is that Islam and Christianity stem from the same moral and intellectual cess pit. Christianity only enjoys its current “moral high ground” because it has been beaten into the dirty corner it belongs by scientific/cultural/economic advances. Islam has not been given this treatment yet but its fairly clear that when whimpering christians are weilding the stick to beat islam they are simultaniously trying to crawl out of their own dirty corner

    This hypocirisy will achieve nothing and is simply divisive… which conveniently plays into the hands of the c*nts weilding these moronic books for their own ends

    If anyone has any doubts about what im saying let me assure you that these words were spoken to me by god and allah in a strange dream when i sat alone in the desert eating mushrooms and sacrificing children


  68. @Alex Purser

    Shame on you. But I can imagine one holding no moral values at all as being able to conceive of shame and that you ask me to feel shame supposes that I do. Well, that much is true, though I feel no shame for them.

    My “freaky Jesus cult” as you call it, is as evidence based as you can get for two milennia in the past. Just how much evidence is there for (say) the ordinary person of circa 3 AD? Pretty little I would think. How many leather shoes have survived two thousand years? How many of your own shoes have survived your lifetime even?

    Ask yourself this: where is the evidence for some of your most favourite memories? Your loved ones? Do you need a photograph of them for you to be able to say “ah, yes, it really did happen, only I never put the date on the back so I cannot tell if it was when I was six or sixty” – you are the sort of person who needs to look at their birth certificate to remind themselves that they are alive at all.

    Are you the sort of person who needs a doctor’s certificate to tell them to drink 200ml of water because you were thirsty but would not drink the water for lack of evidence? Just how far do you want to go with your “evidence” – yes it is ridiculous. But think hard: you feel thirst for a very good reason, and your heart would feel things too were you to listen to it.

    In short, there is a great deal more to “evidence” than meets the eye.


  69. Dear Moron
    I do not currently have time to digest your moronic creationist website but i assure you that it is written by obsessive pseuedo scientists determined to prove a predetermined outcome by all means necessary – this is about as relevant to real science as a paul daniels magic trick


  70. No sir, the cesspit is where you wallow in here on earth with all its scientific/ cultural/ economic advances. Do you ever read what you post or think about it. Have our wonderful advances eradicated poverty? Given benefit? To the rich? Health? Rampant cancer, heart disease….Happiness and Culture? Strictly and EastEnders? Economic advancement? Western world on a financial precipice. No Christ’s kingdom is not of the cesspit of this world.


  71. @Everybody above

    Please remember that Jesus was a fully paid up Jew.


    I am happy for you to enjoy your Catholicism – but please do not tarnish my Protestant beliefs with heresy. In damning me, you make yourself the smaller thereby. What I believe, I do so from my heart. That you choose to believe what you do is your choice, and I hope it is one you can answer to when you come to meet various people at the Heavenly Gate.

    As to Alex Purser, bankers are drawn from people with morals as clearly established as his.


  72. Your logic is clear and irrefutable!. Because science hasn’t irradiated poverty etc etc there must be an afterlife and all the other strange shit your god books drivle on about. Your fantasies may be preferable to the misery you see in the real world (there is a lot of cool stuff too – try ejaculating without fear of pregnancy or a priests scaley hands) but that doesn’t make them real…. There must be a website that doesn’t mention the word evidence that would far better suit your stunted outlook?


  73. Having been to scandinavia I would suggest its not a level platform on which to test the less savory aspects of male behaviour


  74. Gemmz we haven’t really got onto the subject of my morals – been too busy looking at the dubious ones of your freaky Jesus cult and Islamist nutjobs. I am seriously considering a career in banking though (just obeying orders though u understand) so any pointers appreciated. Quick as you can though please cos god has a day off tomorro so Internet may be a bit slow ;-)


  75. @Alex

    I think it is time you had a some cocoa and a long lie down. The stresses of the world seem to be getting at you: there is more to this world than you imagine.

    Perhaps you should try LSD sometime? It might give you a little perspective on matters. I doubt arguing with you will.


  76. What I thought all along. Someone so confirmed in his erroneous world view, that his default position is to attack. Creationist! – yes I am – Moron! – no I am not. Seeker of truth you are not. Too afraid that you may have to bow down to the God who created heaven and earth (but, no doubt you will stay confirmed in your world view and adjust science as you see to make it fit). No, true science, when man truly discovers it, fits in with the Almighty’s creation, not Satan’s.


  77. GK (sigh)
    I used it for one (1) quote.
    And it is no answer at all to the overall piece….like I said ‘just as bad’ doesn’t unmake the facts.


  78. Dave C
    I don’t think so. And it was a reference to Ulster Protestants in the 60s, to be exact.
    Me mudda was de Orange an me fadda wuz de Green, so I know a little about the subject.


  79. @Gemmz
    please be careful considering what i imagine! ive tried lcd a few times but im now hooked on plasma but thanks for the suggestion

    The reason that arguing wont work is that this site presents itself as “evidence based” and your made up subject of religion is devoid of evidence – by definition you are required to embrace moronity and believe things without evidence….. think of this site like a church or temple – please leave artefacts of mental fabrication (not shoes in this instance) at the door!…

    If you wish to argue/discuss matters that are actually real i will gladly
    oblige you with sensible anwers/dialogue
    Good day to you


  80. BT
    I don’t agree.
    I think religion Established (approved) by the State is pernicious and persecutory. I think religion subordinated to the State’s law is nearly always a force for good.


  81. I think the PTB are engineering and manipulating a world wide religious war, so that they can instigate a one world governmental, military and religious order. Hegelian dialect fashion.


  82. Alto
    90% of the Hackgate stuff was researched and written by one very fine journalist and human being, Nick Davies. He does not sign up to, or belong to, the ruling clique at the Rusbridger Gleaner.
    I do not know the ‘answer’ to religious hatred because it is just another sublimation of our tribalism, and thus hard-wired in.
    But I know that appeasement of Islam (or sucking up to it in return for arms deals) is most emphatically NOT the answer.


  83. John,
    my comments to ADB have vanished…….is that ‘cos I said summat wrong?

    Oooer, never been censored before, perhaps I’ll take the hint that big brother has been watching……


  84. Matt said
    “To JW’s conviction that the British establishment is a seething bed of arabists: perhaps, but as ever the picture is more complex; those doing most of the string-pulling seem to be very much pro-Israeli – ………….”

    Pro Israel! You jest!
    I suspect that nobody comprehending the vulnerability of Israel, would truly be string pulling for these recent Arab revolutions.
    The nation at the most severe risk from these changes is Israel itself. Whilst the Arab nations were under the control of tyrants, the Islamic brotherhood was under check. Now in every place the Islamic Brotherhood are establishing their jehadic status by murderous attacks on their own indigenous Christian cultures, such as the Copts of Egypt.
    Their oft stated intent is to then to unleash their hatred on Israel, the main target.
    With the Islamic Brotherhood dominating the Arab nations, I suspect that Israel and the Middle East will once again be aflame courtesy the religion of peace.


  85. Matt
    ‘We in the west created radical Islam’ are the only words I’d disagree with it. We gave it some nice, rich, oily, bullet-riddled soil in which to grow. But we didn’t create it: the human right cortex created it in the same way it created the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Cromwellian slaughter at Boyne, Nazism and the IRA.
    Man is simply an intelligent thug. Nothing more, nothing less.


  86. Dear Moron
    I can see that you are able to write but am unsure why. I understand that you dislike science but please let me assure you that I would like nothing better than for your fairy stories to emerge as valid truths of scientific inquiry… until that date i would prefer you to stay away from me because i find you a little frightening and unsettling
    Best of luck with the magic jeesus thing


  87. kfc
    I like-a dis, it appeala to mya Italiano brio, eh?
    “I very gooda Popezi, you sticka wid me, I give you eternal Heaven widda mama’s spaghetti anna to hell wid alla these slappaz…wassamarrayoo? Oo need sevenatiseven wifes, eh? one eez enough, innit?


  88. Erika
    I recognise that your polemicised thought processes disallow reality from entering, oiveh so sue me already. But….Christians who thrived under Islamic Law in Iraq? My best friend 40 yrs ago was an Iraqi Christian: you don’t know WTF you’re talking about. Why do you think Charlie & Maurice Saatchi’s family got out? Shame on you for your Nazism.


  89. My proud Left-footer
    I think you’re right, within your own belief system. Religious priests are, at the end of the day, only the weak run-of-the-mill who come after (and usually pervert) the original prophet’s ideas.
    I think there are prophets and I think they are special. I don’t think they’re divine.
    I think there is intelligent design in the Universe, but I don’t think one Deity is responsible.
    I think all kinds of generally harmless things, and as long as other folks allow me to think them without burning me to death, I’m a happy bunny.
    Radical Islam would not sign up to that – any more than the priests who went out with the Conquistadors would’ve done.
    God Bless you anyway. The nastiest person I even met was a Catholic priest. And the most stunningly kind and insightful person I ever met had the same job. Twas ever thus.


  90. Alex P
    Er, as you know this, would you mind awfully telling me what the longest-odds winner is going to be at Kempton Park next Thursday?


  91. Owain
    Although lengthy, that was an original reply.
    I agree that most men in authority are idiots. I also think men not in authority suffer just as much as women from their actions.
    I agree that the West hyped Al Q’eida because control-freaks always need a bogey-man. But radical Islam as a whole is a real and present danger…..a serious danger.
    I agree that delusional folks tend to run things. Not all of them are men: see Erika’s various inputs above. No evidence ever supplied – just a little snide, followed by an ex cathedra assertion of religious faith in atheism.


  92. Alex P
    Result of the next election? Gender of Katherine’s first baby?
    I’m not asking for the world. Just, you know, a titbit from your knowledge of que sera sera. I just want to know what will sera.


  93. JW

    Yes, I am aware of that – and I’m pretty certain that this war is soon going to break out anyway: Militant Islam vs. Free Society. The great unknown is the kick-off date – but I’m fairly convinced its not too far into the future. The other unknown is, in which European country will it kick-off. There is already talk in Germany & Denmark about forming vigilante-type groups, and I’d bet money it’s also a subject of discussion in other countries. Speaking for myself, “I could let myself get sucked into this.” After all, the skills I learned from Sep ’65 to Feb ’79 have not been forgotten, they’re just a bit rusty. Put it this way, a few years ago, I’d been a civvy for about 20 years at that point, I was teaching basic English at the local police academy. I asked if I could one day have a go at shooting their pistol. Much humming and hawing – but, granted. My students were really peed off when it turned out my accuracy was much better than theirs! This also happened with the GIs and their Armalite rifle and M60 machine gun!


  94. @Alex P

    well I guess that LSD would have little effect on a brain composed of electronic switches. When you forget things, do you just right click and then choose “trash”? or do you just press the “delete” button?

    What happened to your childhood – the nice bits that you forgot – instead of remembering the hate you have for all Christians of any shape or form? After all, to remember these things, you have to press CTRL and S – that takes more effort than just switching the brain off at the end of the day when you recharge your Ni-Cads.


  95. Jeremy/Alterfacts
    The CP Scott heading to Comment is Free (Arbeit macht Frei) at the Guardianista is classic Orwellian double-think.
    I commented there a lot in 2007. Then I broke a story presenting the case for Gordon Brown being on MAOI anti-depressants, and going blind.
    Since then my ‘freedom’ to comment there has been banned.
    My comment on any Guardian article has been banned.
    Perhaps we should start calling it The Guardiamist.
    Alan Rusbridger is a well-meaning bloke, but he is indeed a useful idiot.


  96. Alex P
    How drole.
    All I’m praying for is your help with something in the future coming off over the odds of 15-1.
    I can see you’re coming off here, but this is the present.


  97. I’ve never seen so much verbal in one place about not very much.
    That’s the passion of religion.

    Hmm humm hummty humm
    make love – not war


  98. Alex P
    Look chum, stop avoiding my challenge with altered pasts.
    All I want to know is, what’s the result of next weekend’s Arsenal v Spurs Derby going to be.
    Can’t do it, can you…eh? Eh?


  99. Joanna
    Big Brother is not welcome in these here parts.
    The sad downside of WordPress philanthropy is its awful commenting technology.


  100. @JW

    it isn’t only the Guardian that bans commenters – it was rattling Disqus’ cage that got me re-installed at the Daily Telegraph. But perhaps they, like Cameron follow Labour’s lead?


  101. @Alex P

    can you replicate yourself in “laboratory conditions” – or can you only do that with your wife and out of sight of people in white coats?

    Tell me, for I am interested. When you taste something, can you replicate that with a laboratory test? Or do the blue electronic indicators in your mind that tell you something is salty not work in laboratory conditions?

    Oh, and whilst we are off topic: why can we not transmit taste over the internet? Or smell for that matter. Very, very odd that technology has such shortcomings when in your world it is all powerful.


  102. John
    Agreed re: men and women. That was the danger of bringing in a feminist analogy, but I make the point purely to illustrate entrenched power. Men and women are equal in terms of their ability to be dominated by power, or to dominate with power. It’s just that we are stuck with a historical remnant of patriarchy right now (which yes, abuses men equally).

    You are also right about radical islam, it is a frontier of delusion and barbarism that is sweeping through places we know nothing about (darfur or somalia).

    RIght now, we the people are well placed to expose this. I can imagine us all having identical conversations in the 1500s in Europe, trying to call attention to the insanity of our families being burnt alive for being “witches”, and wondering why nobody was helping us against the monstrous actions of the fundamentalist inquisitors.

    The labels change, the gods change, and gold turns to paper, but it is still a minute percentage of sociopaths manipulating us all.

    Now, unlike times past, we can compare notes, read the history, and find out via the internet that all of the different enemies we thought we had, are just one.

    In the case of Christian persecution, highlighting this issue will inevitably cause people to ask why? This can only bring clarity of cause and effect which we really needed on september 12th, 2001.

    It may take some of us a much longer time to find this out, but I am confident that even the most radical islamist can take a breath once the truth is known. In the long term, there is no other path for our evolution (though it might take a downturn in the near future).


  103. I realise it is some time since Syria was mentioned, but surely the mission statement of the Israelis must be to ensure that the Golan Heights are never occupied by a hostile force. They will do what it takes, unlike promises out of Brussels.


  104. Not sure I understand what you’re saying. I simply said that religion is totalitarian by its nature and I believe this to be true. If it goes thru an elightenment process and becomes seperated from politics it may become moderated. But that doesn’t change its beliefs.


  105. Viking Jack, Thank you for the link. I had my facts wrong and am happy to be corrected. Honor killings are not common in North America, but there have been a few. There has been a feeble attempt to make Honor Killing a particular type of crime. The various Islamic organizations have opposed it and advocate keeping Honor Killings as just a form of “domestic violence.” I don’t particularly care one way or the other; homicide is homicide. However, in the US we have special sanctions for certain crimes based on race or sexual orientation. These “hate crimes” are the result of lobbying by black and homosexual organizations. Muslim women have no political action organization to lobby the powers that be so their particular vulnerability is swept under the rug.


  106. Why not search for a Protestant church that meets your needs. It seems to me that is the simplist way to solve your problem.


  107. Gemmz I share your disdain for the primitive shortcomings of our technologies. With regard to transmitting taste and smell over the Internet I would suggest this technology is likely to emerge shortly. As I’m sure you are aware common tastes and smells can be simulated with a range of chemical analogues of natural substances – in essence all that is required is a few fancy air freshners hooked up to wifi

    I’m not totally with you on the salty tastes and replication stuff but it does take me back to my days in the choir

    I suspect however that you are insinuating that the extreme complexities and qualia (ie that we all see our own version of yellow) associated with brains, organisms, consciousness must conclude that there is a god and magic Jesus and fairies etc etc.

    I would suggest that you put your hand up, admit to being a dunce and do some intensive study in biology and then neuroscience and genetics before you have a fraction of a chance of adding anything sensible on these matters…. With respect


  108. GemmZ my mind is open and I wouldn’t say I had a specific hatred of all forms of Christian. It would be fairer to say that I see religion as a sickness or mental virus that human minds are unfortunately susceptible to

    For a conscious human to reflect and conclude that the bible is anything more than fairy tales is deeply troubling – and how vain it is to conjure a godlike being whom you matter to in the face of zero evidence

    And what arrogance to suggest that someone who willfully resists these childish impulses to be reasured that death isn’t the end and that there must be meaning is a robot

    Quite the opposite I say your religous dogma is stifling and closed minded


  109. The beliefs expressed by zoompad about Roman Catholics is not all that odd. Protestants believe a lot of odd things about Roman Catholics. The odd bit is a Jesuit officiating at a Protestant ( I assume Anglican) church.


  110. @Gemmz
    All apects of religion are man made especially god. people who claim to speak to god – jesus, mohammed etc are fruitcakes. I can say this with certainty not because I KNOW there isnt a god any more than i can KNOW that anything else doesnt exist (teapots orbiting pluto etc!), but in the absence of evidence (and there is zero – depite your new term “evidence” which im sure the rupert murdochs of this world will be delighted to have at their disposal) the only rational assertation is that there is no god. This is not to take away the inate sense of wonder that our species has evolved, but simply not to abuse it by ramming these twisted moralizing divisive god books down the throats of developing minds

    The reason that your religion NEEDS to be organised is that without systematic abuse of young children’s minds, people would be massively less likely to swallow this drivle (and would anyone really come to your conclusions from a rigourous study of middle eastern bronze age history!?). It is therefore massively hypocritical of wishy washy christians to lament “why must religion be organised in our modern world?” as if they are somehow more moral than blubbering arabs in their mosques. The day that people who state that religion is a private matter stick to that by:-
    a) not imparting their private god views or advertising their god club, and b) keep their relationship with “god” private by genuinely dealing with him direct instead of picking up man made god books (i.e. other peoples “i talked to god” stories) – will be a good day for all (bar a few tyrants and theresas)

    You people are the power base for crusaders, the cleaning lady at auschvitz etc etc and are undoubtedly propping these vile idiologies in your own little way allowing the real villains (try popes and mother theresa moralizing on birth control in poor uneducated parts of the world but there are many more) spearheading your god clubs to do their foul self seeking work as thy always will

    i would suggest that you may want to take up the matter of evidence with john – i know it plays an important role in his analysis but armed with your “evidence+” who knows what he will be capable of?!. I in the mean time, on this holiest of days, i must get back to the business of predicting the future….apparently!
    Good day to you madam


  111. Matt
    February 11, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Not particlarly doing Syria – just that Erika cannot get it out of her head that the Zionist Israel is the bad guy in the Middle East. I would not be surprised at US/CIA involvement undermining (what is a brutal regime in) Syria – after all they do not like religion in the US/Left and want it destroyed as much as its destruction is required in the UK/EU.
    Israel is the ONLY friend to the western culture in the region though it is painted as the bad guy in every situation by the left/’western culture destroyers’ – and yes I have seen the YouTube offerings also decrying the zionists ! But JW’s blog about junk information being distributed needs to include You Tube – and the only conspiracy (if you can call it that) that I believe is that there are ‘self hating luvvies’ who want to apologise on behalf of everyone else – to appease their own conciences for things they and we never did on our lonesome ! Alongside those who use these idiots to take more power and wealth to themselves to bolster their own ego’s by decrying an established culture as if it was somehow bad and evil. These fools make lilfe worse for everyone (even themselves – long term) by refusing to see truth and fact and reality rather than an artists impression.

    Returning to Syria briefly – the only way to control the Islamists is by brutality – which is why it took brutal dictators to do so. If you do not want war with them – which I do not ! The only answer is to leave them with what they have got keeping them in check – because they sure as hell do not want ‘a western style democracy’. Saying that – I do not want what we pretend is ‘a western style democracy’ either – but I do want the freedom, liberty and Rule of law – which it SHOULD be providing (and has been corrupted by those referred to above.)


  112. JW

    Thanks for your answer.

    Education must diffuse tribalism today as for all its ills globalisation is here to stay especially with virtually instant communications.

    It would be great if small sample examples were not propagated as generalised truths you could help given your m/research experience.

    Finally do you not find the ‘payday loans’ scam not worthy of outing.

    I have seen ads on afternoon tv (yes I am that sad) advertising APR’s of over 5000% (not a typo)!!

    The other day I heard an ex-Mafia (USA-style) state that said he had been a loan shark and charged a mere 500% ‘vigorish’ (actually he thought 500% was criminal).

    Payday loans in the UK are a disgrace -I do hope you you will try and get this scam discussed and with luck closed down.


  113. alex purser
    February 11, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    That there are those who get into places of authority when they should not is a given – but the teachings if christianity do not instruct these people to abuse children. You have mistakenly linked you abuser with the religion and condemned the whole belief system – based on one evil persons perversions.
    Blame the man for doing wrong, not the teachings which he ignored to his own ends. And get yourself some psychiatric assistance to deal with your hatred and loathing of the wrong done to you. Your postings display a total hatred of anything christian – but like posted many times in other ways – this will destroy you before it destroys the teachings behind Christianity because those teachings are morally good and you do not have to be a believer to live by them :) Perhaps adopting the teachings and eschewing the hatred (which it does not teach) would be a better life path ?


  114. Jeremy,

    Your intemperate blog gives me the strong belief that unlike myself who admits to knowing very little you not not of that opinion when you self-assess.

    As I have not met Mehdi Hassan so I am flattered and somewhat amazed that he knows what I have achieved in my life so that he can pronounce on it.

    You likewise obviously do not require knowledge and research to make Poyntonism pronouncements.


  115. Boko Harem are not just islamist terrorists the whole thing there kicked off because they believe that 7 yr old girls should be married off and not be allowed to go to school.


  116. This is good:
    The belief that some cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
    Makes perfect sense.


  117. @morningstar
    Bar a few minor details such as approval of racism, homophobia, mysogyny, slavery, sexual repression and its adoption of fear as a teaching tool, embrassing authoritarianism, the fact it hijacks the strange myths and ceremonies from ancient religions (trimming down the child sacrifice a bit!), being anti intellectual anti scientific throughout, i think your book of bronze age mumbo jumbo is a jolly good teaching aid idealy suited for anyone without some inate morality

    ….and please believe me that i wont be loosing sleep (or seeking psychiatric help – as long as i stay away from Gemmz LSD bible drillings) over morons who live their life from the “teachings” and crazy magic of a book inspired by fantasists and cobbled together over succesive centuries (we can do the old testament as well which in the words of my favourite made up priest will be quite a mouthful)….. if this is what happens on an “evidence based” blog i dispair for the rest of the internet… right im off to sleep to dream of unicorns and fairys (feel free to join me) whilst dodging mother theresa with her big strap-on but in 8 hours i will rise again! ;-)


  118. Pingback: An agnostic warns of the persecution of Christians « Churchmouse Campanologist

  119. We are not worthy Alex, for it seems, oh Great One that you know all.
    From whence comes your knowledge of life, the universe and everything?
    It would be wonderful if you could share with us the research methods employed to determine (by purely logical and evidence-based analysis of course) that ‘when you die there is nothing’.
    Why not try asking yourself how much any of us truly ‘know’, and accept that your particular type of evangelism is based on nothing but the misty ephemeral ideas of your own puny mind. I too have a similarly puny thought-organ but then I don’t profess to have the answers… merely my own thoughts. Good luck.


  120. Hello there, I think your blog may be having web browser compatibility issues. Whenever I look at your blog in Safari, it looks fine but when opening in I.E., it’s got some overlapping issues. I just wanted to provide you with a quick heads up! Other than that, great site!


  121. Pingback: US LIBYAN EMBASSY MURDERS: Clinton’s foreign policy blown away | A diary of deception and distortion

  122. Pingback: John Ward – US Libyan Embassy Murders : Clinton’s Foreign Policy Blown Away – 13 September 2012 | Lucas 2012 Infos

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