CRASH 2 ANALYSIS: This is a poker game about who runs the world

Time for the suits to get a haircut?

With the world’s Sovereigns divided by fear and greed, it’s hard to see how the lenders can lose

While the euro funding crisis has zig-zagged this way and that, one thing has remained consistent throughout: the bondholding banks have not contributed a penny towards any solution.

Now some would argue, “They’re the creditors – why should they?” but it’s pointless going through all the reasons why again. It takes two to tango, as they say, and the banks have form in the 21st century when it comes to lending money to people they know can’t pay it back. They must know, a lot of the time, that the borrowers won’t repay; but they figure that’s OK, because other taxpayers will.

I’ve lost count of the number of false dawns we’ve had on this issue. Haircuts and percentages have come and gone, forgiveness deals have been under, on, and then off the table, and bailouts have been announced as “more than enough to settle the markets” time and time again. But there have been no haircuts, no forgiveness, and not a single effective bailout. The situation in Greece is a farce whereby everyone pretends in public that the lenders might take 40, 50 or even 60% haircuts. Five weeks ago, 35% was a done deal: the BBI gave its word on behalf of the credit community. But today, we are no further on….and every day, that unsolved dilemma threatens to blow down one or more of the French leading banks.

I spoke with two well-informed managers yesterday, both of whom felt a French downgrade was only a week or so away – and inevitable, unless something happened. But the lenders show no sign of cutting this leading-rank nation some slack. More to the point, they show no sign of delivering on the much-heralded BBI pledge. (If they did in relation to Greece, France’s problems would be decimated overnight).

If another self-styled ‘expert’ tells me I ‘don’t understand’ the logistics involved, I think violence might be in order. Were a meteorite heading for the planet this morning, logistics wouldn’t be allowed to get in the way. The biggest financial missile ever to hit Paris is probably 6-9 working days away: if it hits, it’s game over for the world economy for years to come. I shouldn’t be – but it will be, because those same lenders, bondholders and markets will panic. Not about the economies about to go belly up, but about the money they’re owed.

Yesterday evening, something occurred to me about public opinion: I wouldn’t mind betting that a majority of the ordinary folks out there think that banks, bondholders, and markets are all different elements in this incredibly complex jigsaw of debt. They aren’t of course, but to read media reports on a daily basis, you’d think they were. RBS invests in bonds, trades in bonds, lends too much credit, and demands higher yields when things get sticky on the repayment front. It’s all the same people. When Reuters writes ‘Now markets target Germany’, what that means is that lender-bondholders want a guarantor, and they’ll make life hairy for Berlin until they get it. Every pusher in the world knows that trick: get the buggers hooked, and then start giving them less of it, more expensively.

How high one takes the helicopter before deciding on a viewpoint about this depends on your personal bent. Mine is and always has been to get as much horizon in the lens as I possibly can. The economies of the world are being held to ransom by those who were supposed to be fuelling capitalism. They have in reality given almost nothing to real capitalism, but instead fed vast funds into multinational monopolists wanting to eat each other. When not doing that, the financial community has traded with itself. And as all little boys know, if you trade with yourself too much, you go blind.

If the Slog’s report of earlier this week is even half accurate, the ransom demand is working. Berlin is weakening, and under the table (on it actually, but we’re not allowed to say that) is a plan via which the bankers will get all their money back, a large amount of ClubMed debt will be forgiven, and around 40% of the money to do all this will come from stealth taxes on the EU citizenry. Even as the idea develops, there is no talk of haircuts any more. Taxes are the new haircuts: the banks will come out of it dripping with rose-water again.

“They have to,” said a valued friend to me a fortnight ago, “because if they collapse, we’re all in the sh*t. Don’t forget John, the lenders are the banks, but they’re also the Sovereigns and the pension providers”. He’s right of course: markets wanting a debt guarantor are often the same folks whose collapse in the absence of that sugar-daddy will mean the collapse of a sovereign economy. Round and round the circle goes…but my point is a simple one: this is a game of poker here, and the stakes couldn’t be higher. However, it seems to me that the financial sector holds all the aces.

Let’s say Merkel just keeps on saying, “No – take a haircut”. If the banks say no, some of their membership go under, but the entire Western economy collapses into a trough of pigswill. The remaining banks will be richer than ever….and the Sovereigns will be broke.

Let’s say Schauble finally agrees, “OK – you win, we’ll disguise the facts and let both lenders and debtors off”. All the banks survive – even more powerful than they were before. But the Western economic world remains frightened of them….and the remaining sovereign debts haven’t got any smaller.

This isn’t conspiracy theory, by the way, before anyone accuses me of it. It’s the reality unfolding before our eyes: as I wrote last year, there is a wealth transfer likely to take place, and it has nothing to do with West and East: this is a transfer of power from Sovereign governments powered by vibrant capitalism, to Sovereign banks serving the needs of big monopolists. In Greece and Italy, it’s already in place in a de facto sense. Last year, Bob Diamond as good as told David Cameron to go f**k himself when it came to bank bonuses, since when Camerlot as a whole hasn’t uttered so much as a squeak about controlling the banks. Diamond now talks gaily about being happy to dispose of his retail network: it’s a cost centre, and the People have been bled dry….so who needs them any more?

This is the primary reasoning behind what The Slog has said from Day One: the only answer (through which Sovereign democratic governance can survive even partly intact, and dismantle the financial system as it exists today) is controlled, global debt forgiveness. The financial community will have to take a much bigger hit – but across the board, so most of the players survive…greatly chastened. And yes, savings and pensions will suffer for a while. But debt forgiveness on an averaged, monitored scale is the only way we can beat the banks.

They are highly unlikely to be beaten. Although the banks don’t trust each other, their actions have been far more concerted and focused than the response of national Sovereign governments. The sting being applied is working in the same way all stings work: by appealing first to selfish greed, and then to fear. There is no political leader out there today capable of saying, “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself”. Whether they really want to or not, the money-suits are on target to run the world.

Related: Black Death in the eurozone

And on a lighter note – George Osborne, Fall Statement Guy

108 thoughts on “CRASH 2 ANALYSIS: This is a poker game about who runs the world

  1. You can see the EU leaders buckling under ,one by one. Man the life boats,is the order of the day. But hang on . Some bastard has cut them adrift. Ah well,women and children jump first.

  2. I am not a conspiracy theorist in the ” David Icke” Reptiles rule the world sense. However every whee you look you see the hand of the Rockefeller family. Whether it be Bilderberg stooges taking over Italy, or Trilateral commission placemen in charge at the BBC. I honestly believe that events are being manipulated to an agenda. That agenda can only involve moves towards more integrated Global governance. I do not necessarily subscribe to all the other nonsense that is out there on the net about how they are going to eliminate 90% of us and steal all our assets. Nevertheless there is a definite anti-democratic movement at large which is gaining speed at a remarkable rate!!

    • Yeah, blame the lizards,

      Don’t blame the politicians that were so eager to get themselves re-elected they deliberately reduced interest rates in 2001 to inject more debt in the system to get false growth and delay a recession by taking cash from the “future” to thus get re-elected on the back of a “boom”.

      Please, GET A FECKING GRIP!

      • if you bothered to read what he actually says, you may note he is actually blaming the establishment. I don’t know anything about the Rockefeller stuff, but you may have noticed that Italy has recently had it’s government replaced by a group of completely unelected E.U. technocrats, and if you bothered to read quotes from E.U. politicians of old then you may also note they have openly said the only way to crush sovereign states and create the U.S. of Europe is by manufacturing a crisis that would lead the voters to accept the suspension of democracy. We are being made to fear. Also the Bilderburg group are very real, that is no secret. And if you think the BBC are not biased then you are passed help. Maybe this post is too long and complicated for you to understand, so I’ll speak your language for a minute.

        Please, WAKE THE FECK UP!

      • To Ryan,

        I think Kevin is blaming the politicians, as well as the bankers in all this. That’s his point.

      • Look, there isn’t any point blaming some secret cabal for our problems. Maybe they exist, I don’t know but they aren’t the cause of the UK problems. We need to think about the real cause of the problems HERE. The problems of the UK really are very simple. They were caused like this:-

        Gordon Brown had been given the impression that after a certain period of time he would get to become PM when Blair stepped down.

        Gordon Brown had a MASSIVE ego and thought he deserved to be PM and would be the best PM ever.

        The only thing Gordon had to do was to keep Tony Blair in power until Gordon could have a go.

        Then the dot-com bubble burst in 2000 and by 2001 we were staring a recession in the face with Marconi going bust and Vodafone struggling. The Blair government started to look shaky. Gordon thought he might not get a chance to be PM.

        Gordon decided to take a leaf out of Alan Greenspan’s book and counter the deflating bubble of the dot.com boom by reducing interest rates. He did this by forcing the BofE to place growth in front of inflation. Reducing interest rates is done with the specific purpose of pushing more cash into the system to make us feel rich when in fact we are taking wealth from our future. The public sat back and let him do it because the British public are supine, lazy twats easily fooled into believing that the good times are here especially when the state broadcaster tell them they are.

        The banks just did the inevitable. With base rates set low they have a race to the bottom to set their own rates low and in this case they can only make a profit by shifting ever larger amounts of debt onto the public, corporations and government at low rates. Expanding the amount of debt can only be achieved by taking on debt that is inherently risky. Thus the banks just responded to Gordon’s bidding. The BofE was set up as a scapegoat by making it look like it is independent but it isn’t. The targets used to set interest rates were set by Gordon Brown – Gordon Brown pulled the levers and the BofE simply enacted the policy as set by Gordon Brown.

        No secret cabals, no Bilderburg group. Nothing fancy at all. Just Gordon Brown’s ego. Simple as that. As a consequence of his ego we went from having almost no debt to having massive uncontrollable debt in just 7 years.

        Please try and remember this. Realise the banks overlending was a natural SYMPTOM of GORDON BROWN’s POLICIES to cover up a bust technological economy until he could become PM. If we don’t learn this as a people then we will never be able to push for a permanent solution.

        The key to preventing people like Gordon Brown using debt to buy themselves power today paid for by the governments of the future is to make the BofE truly independent and make government stick to debt and deficit targets set by the BofE not the other way around as it is at present. This is how the Bundesbank works in Germany and how the government works in Switzerland and it is the solution to “boom and bust”. Blaming the banks is just government propaganda to allow them to keep their hands on the levers of government finance and blame anybody but themselves. The banks are NOT to blame. They just did government bidding. The government of Gordon Brown and Blair KNEW exactly what they were doing and what the consequences would be. Gordon Brown is a historian – he knew his policies would lead to a debt bubble and a crash just as it did in the Great Depression of the 30s.

    • Kevin, I suspect that you are confusing cause and effect. I’m sure that there are lots of special interest groups doing their stuff but I’m also sure that they take advantage rather than create. But then I’m a cockup rather than collusion sort of person.

      • Jon
        Me too. I could do the same analysis for Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan et al.
        These sharks aren’t conspirators, they’re opportunists.

    • Dont forget the Rothschild venture to control the worlds resources through his banking systems and invasions of the middle east! Funny how its all happening at the same time!

      • You don’t think it has more to do with the Yanks being more afraid that as China and India are on the rise the demands on crude oil will also rise and the Yanks want to guarantee their supply?

      • Ryan that would make sense. But this has been planned in my opinion for at least 20 years, there is much evidence to support this. Its the New World Order it would seem and it kicked of on 9th Sept 2001.

  3. Are the BRICS immune to all this doom & gloom? Or have Goldman Sachs & the Bilderbergs penetrated and corrupted their systems too?
    (I’ve asked to be paid in gold from now on, but apparently that’s not possible.)

  4. Banking is a form of parasitism.

    Parasites, in the microbiological world live off other species. The successful ones are the ones who do not kill their host, at least not until they have been transmitted to a fresh host. In that case if the transmission and infection is too successful they kill the entire species which really is to the advantage of neither parasite or host.

    The most successful parasites are the ones which just enfeeble the host and live happily hidden from view.

  5. Debt forgiveness is about the only way out of the mess now. However we need a leader with vision, and he or she has to get themselves in place through stealth about their real views, as anyone whose views are out in the open will have the full force of the fear team upon their back. Steve Keen shares these same views on Hard Talk on the BBC.

    • No, Keen recommends System Reset, not Debt Forgiveness and he says that several times over – listen to what he says – not the what Wark says he just said – Warp minded BBC journalists.

    • Very similar to Vickers Plan that Britain’s ConLib government says it will implement over the next several years.

      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-12/u-k-banks-may-have-to-separate-retail-units-in-11-billion-vickers-plan.html

      If its good to tighten up regulations on UK banks to protect British taxpayers, then why sneer at EZ when it proposes similar measures to protect EZ taxpayers.

      Before you say the EU is copying the UK, Vickers got his ideas from similar proposals in the US, whose genesis is in banking regulations already operating in countries like Canada & Singapore.

      The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Ecclesiastes 1:9

      Of course Vickers and the EZ plan, wont happen if we all go to hell in handbasket by Christmas.

  6. I think we need something even more radical that global debt forgiveness, even though that has to play a part in the solution. We need to radically overhaul the financial system, the political system and the economy. While we are doing that a few jail sentences wouldn’t go amiss too!
    The capitalist financial system is now only performing due to socialist intervention and I would argue its very existence has been severely compromised. I am not willing to pay my taxes to cosset the lives of a select few and I am even more unwilling to pass on that burden to my children and grandchildren!
    The political system is obviously deeply flawed and incapable of anything resembling original thought patterns. Regurgitating failed policies time and time again in support of themselves is not why I might be persuaded to vote!
    The economics of this country need refocusing and expecting the EU or even the New World to supply export led growth is missing the point by a wide margin. Thinking that could be given the bias it needed by devaluing the currency is ludicrous because being a ‘two bit player’ in the Global game just means increasing imported inflation which leads to even more devaluations, that being the easy option and one other countries will chase to the bottom.
    We could be using the breathing space we have at the moment with markets busy in other directions to implement a whole draft of innovative policies and try to get this country back on its feet and in a fit state for whatever the future holds. Course we need leaders with working grey cells for that!

  7. Kevin: “Nevertheless there is a definite anti-democratic movement at large”

    There surely is and it’s called “Common Purpose”

    Jez

  8. Will it collapse? No, of course it won’t, we are being fed just enough fear to keep us on the edge, that’s the edge that we have been teetering on, the abyss we have been staring into, the cliff edge we are standing on, it’s all b*llocks carefully manipulated to a given agenda and the banks know it, the first crash told them that, very quickly they realised that they held all the aces in the same way Papandreou realised he could always hold his hand out for more and Merkel would hand it over, that’s got more to do with his demise. We have been here for a while now, probably a couple of years all told, and I’m sure we will be here a while longer, Europe or the Euro is not going to be allowed to fail, we heading towards a situation where we will be faced with a choice, and the other option will be a “vista too awful to contemplate” i.e. banks failing etc. etc.
    The interest to me now is: What will the UK do, are we in, or out?
    All the time Cameron is in charge we are in, that’s for sure.
    But, as they say nothing lasts forever……

  9. In see now in the Maily Torygraph it’s “10 days to save the Euro” what utter tosh…How many times has it been ” X days to save the Euro”? More than I can remember!

  10. Please STOP blaming the banks. This is just Guardian propaganda aimed at deflecting attention away from the politicians. If the banks are to blame how come all of them did the same thing at the same time??? How is it not one banker has been found to have broken the law???

    It’s the politicians!!! They reduce interest rates specifically to inject more debt into the economy in a recession in the hope of getting growth and therefore re-election.

    HOW MANY MORE TIMES DO YOU NEED TO BE TOLD!!!

    • Ryan

      HOPEFULLY NO MORE TIMES BY YOU !!!!

      But you did give me a laugh with your argument : How is it not one banker has been found to be breaking the law???

      I’ll leave it to others to fill you in with the likes of JPM, GS, MFGlobal if they can be bothered. Somehow I don’t think you’ll be listening

      • I wasn’t really referring to banks and rogue traders conducting outright fraud. These were indeed exposed by the banking crisis along with some Ponzi schemes and the perpetrators will do gaol time for their activities because these things ARE against the law. However, these activities were not the cause of the current debt and banking crisis, they were simply exposed by it. Nobody in the banks will do gaol time for the debt crisis because large scale lending and risky lending are not against the law.

        The debt crisis was cause by the likes of Alan Greenspan, Gordon Brown and the ECB deciding that interest rates close to zero were a great way to paper over a recession caused by the dot-com bubble bursting. It was clearly WRONG-HEADED. The banks make a profit by charging interest, so if you tell them they must charge almost zero interest then they have to shift an ENORMOUS amount of very risky debt to make any money at all. That was the stated policy of Greenspan, the ECB and the BofE. You can’t really blame the banks for simply doing what they are set up to do in an environment created by politicians and civil servants. The Guardian and the politicians would like you to of course, but do you want to be led by the nose by them?

    • Ryan
      I really don’t want to be rude, but: Wake up man. Take another long long look at the world, read a great deal more and hope you’ll get it. Just as the world is so interconnected these days, it includes politicians in power – greed corrupts, and the opportunities afforded (sic) by the financial world to make more money and amass greater power do so by tickling the greed and egos of politicians who then do their bidding to protect their self-interests. How about starting with reading about what happened in the 20th Century to Sovereign nations of the Third World and how many were systematically raped by The World Bank and the IMF etc? It wasn’t such a hot topic, as what happened to the people in poor nations with an abundance of resources in other parts of the world weren’t that important to the rest of us. Then try and wonder if you can spot any similarity with what’s happening now to Sovereign nations in the 1st World (us).

      • Nah mate, Gordon Brown saw that the 2001 dot-com crash would scupper the Blair government and used a massive injection of debt to paper over the cracks until the twat could get his hands on power. It really was about Gordon Brown’s ego and the fact he was free under our constitution to play around with our cash to his hearts content not just today’s cash but out childrens cash as well.

        Start blaming Bilderburgs, the IMF, lizard men and whatever and you won’t ever find the simple solution. Germany doesn’t have a government debt problem because Germany has a Bundesbank that tells the German government how much they can spend under the constitution. Switzerland doesn’t have a debt problem because its constituion prevents it. We too could have a simple change to our constituition which would allow the BofE to determine maximum public spending and we would never have this problem again.

        You can’t put pressure on the government to get rid of Bilderburg and the lizard-men. You can put public pressure on the government to have a genuine independent BofE the can control public spending. Even the supine middle-classes can manage that.

      • Well, the difficulty is that the supine middle classes are precisely that-supine!
        Until there is a party which will properly represent them (the Tories ain’t it!), nothing whatsoever will be done, because they are too law abiding to strike/riot/ etc. and are frighteneed that the system will take from them what little they have
        Of course they should grow a pair-as the recent riots proved, the police are totally useless-except against a single woman having a rant on a tram!

  11. ‘…the Banks lend us money…’ ?
    I don’t think that is correct.
    the banks lend us back our own money seems more accurate.

    • FTW, actually money is created when you take out a loan. That’s the ‘beauty’ of fractional reserve banking. Only a very small proportion of our money they have is our savings and deposits. That’s why we are in the shit.

      By creating money at no cost and then charging interest, you have to keep growing the money supply in order to pay off off the interest. When you reach the limits to growth (through massive unpayable debt, or the end of cheap energy) the whole thing collapses. Like now. The unsustainable is well.. er… unsustainable. John descibes the situation very well IMO.

      There is some good stuff on Youtube that descibes the whole sordid money creating process.

    • No sir, not quite correct. The banks create money out of thin air via fractional reserve banking in response to our request for a loan, then they charge interest on that money they have just created. Wish I could do that! Also wish I could charge up to 2000% interest for payday loans.
      But I’d be thrown into prison for either of these actions.

      • I thought all money(fiat currency) in existence was debt money. Printed by private banks owned by private banks, and lent at interest where the interest to pay back does not exist, hence the need print and borrow more money and so on it goes perpetually raising the debt levels until there is so much cash swilling about it is rendered worthless due to inflation caused by lending more and more printed money! Please correct me if I am wrong!

  12. As I keep trying to explain, governments surrendered control and the politicians were happy to give it away for the money. And the persons now in control are beholden to no state at all, only their own number crunchers.

  13. “30 November 2011 – Coordinated central bank action 
to address pressures in global money markets

    The Bank of Canada, the Bank of England, the Bank of Japan, the European Central Bank, the Federal Reserve and the Swiss National Bank are today announcing coordinated actions to enhance their capacity to provide liquidity support to the global financial system. The purpose of these actions is to ease strains in financial markets and thereby mitigate the effects of such strains on the supply of credit to households and businesses and so help foster economic activity.”

    For me the last sentence proves beyond doubt that those in charge have lost it completely …. there is zero chance that this will trickle down to “households and businesses”, the banks will just say thank you very much and keep it

    • “But, but, but there’s no credit so we must solve the problem with more credit!!”

      I’m buying rope, I have a feeling it may be a great way to make money as people will need lots of it soon. What with all the politicians and bankers that need to be lynched.

      • “I’m buying rope, I have a feeling it may be a great way to make money as people will need lots of it soon.”

        Ah, now I may be of assistance there. I foolishly sold my boat in 2008 to help buy a little plot of land which I figured would always be a hedge against inflation whereas the boat just lost value every year. It transpires that the best thing I could have done was to sell my house instead , stock up for a couple of years and buggered off on the boat until the whole mess had sorted itself out or just kept on going around in large circles. Big mistake, but it does mean I have miles, or at least a mile, of rope that has never been used and would be ideal for the purposes you have in mind. Providing only of course I get to tie the knots, a fella has to have some fun and I need the practise.

  14. Its the FED coming to the rescue,of the banks,liquidity problems,caused by the FED. Definition of insanity is repeating the same mistake over and over again.

  15. Don’t be worried.Failure is inevitable. Bailouts don’t change the fundamentals. Bailouts don’t make Italy’s and Greece’s problems disappear. This is just another delaying tactic,to cream even more off the top.

  16. From the DT; ‘Cutting swap costs is the equivalent of interest rate cuts. These banks are now basically providing unlimited US dollars to banks with which to fund themselves. The banks will be hoping this is a turning point in the crisis’.

    Wait, so…ummm,,US of A is effectively giving dollars to banks, so they can use them to remain afloat and hence look after the businesses and people? ROFLOA! The USA is bankrupt anyway, so they are just giving monopoly money to other bankrupt folk in order to get a tinsy winsy bit of interest at some date in the future..assuming those bankrupt folk will honour it?
    This MUST be a BAD DREAM, or perhaps a pantomime sketch seeing as it is that time of year!?
    As Zerohedge says, thank goodness we will all be bailed out by Mars!

  17. I’ve come to the conclusion that will be no recovery of any sort for 10 years at least.

    We will all have to accept that our standard of living is undergoing a major shift southwards. More fiat money means more people investing/speculating in tangible goods (oil, metals etc) to find an increase in wealth. This will erode disposable income for the consumer.

    The moral of the story is:
    “stop wanting stupid shite that you don’t really need. Odds are you aren’t going to have the cash for it anyway.” If you can reach the end of the week with food on the table and your heating bills paid, then you are doing ok and for now that has to be enough.

    There’s often calls for people to aim for “self-sufficiency” in these threads. It’s not a bad idea, not because the world is ending (and we’re all DOOMED!!!) but because that’s about to become the sensible choice for a large number of people. Grow your own food, make the best of what you have and avoid taxes and VAT as much as you possibly can. It’s your patriotic duty.

    This system of governance has rejected us, the people it claims to represent. The least we can do is respond in kind.

    • “The markets are soaring again, 5% in some cases”

      Isn’t that what they call a ‘dead cat bounce’? Goodness knows why, but if I have learned anything from recent events this is apparently de riguer before the fall. Of course I am not *claiming* I have learned anything, just posing the hypothethis.

      • Jwoo
        The foundations of the Xmas bonuses? The money junkies have scored more of the same stuff, they are high, will they come down soon? Of course they will.

      • Jwoo, not neccessarily dead cat bounce. If more and more ‘liquidity’ is supplied equities will rise. In fact the Zimbabwean stock market had a fantastic run up a few years ago. Assets will reflect the puchashing power of their denominated currency.

        Some people look to the gold/DOW ratio with interest and suspect that it might return to 1:1. With hyperinflation they both could be at 50,000 . With deflation, both at 5000. We shall see.

  18. You may be looking the wrong way.There is a little local difficulty in Syria,and a few more explosions from IRAN,due before Christmas.

      • Nah! They will wait until after Xmas when western idiots have maxed out the credit cards and then strike, to bring the whole debt shebang down on top of us!

      • The Israelis don’t celebrate Xmas and it’s minor thing for the Americans. Thanksgiving, Last week is their big do. We have, of course, subcontracted out the SAS to do some of their dirty work. Mendicants and mercanaries that we are.

  19. O/T but just saw a headline on an italian website that germany has ordered a load of DM bills from various swiss banknote printers.

    Scaremongering no doubt…

    • I’m fed up with is “undemocratic” labelling of the technocracies installed in Italy & Greece – I don’t like them either but …

      Depending on your perspective, Mario Monti has either been undemocratically installed as PM since the general populace never voted for him, or he’s been democratically elected PM since he was appointed by the democratically elected President and confirmed by the democratically elected Parliament.

      The real question is, did the Italian President & Parliament act constitutionally (according to THE ITALIAN constitution, not your constitution or my constitution) in installing the Monti technocracy? After reading the Italian constitution and the opinions of Italian Constitutional lawyers, the answer is an unqualified YES.

      Is it democratic? Yes, like Britain, Italy is a Representative Democracy, so it is democratic because the new technocracy government was voted in by a majority in Parliament and, in turn, those members of Parliament have been elected by the people.

      Is this democratically ideal? Probably not, but imagine if Italy didn’t have the constitutional ability to proceed this way. Imagine that they were forced to call general elections. Imagine the elections are inconclusive, as is usually the case in Italy where only unstable concocted coalitions can form governments? Do they vote again? and then again? What is going to happen with the country in the meantime? Is the crisis going to get any better?…

      Italy (& Greece) have experienced real dictatorships in the recent past. It seems to me, that the ineffective consensus government of Italy under Berlusconi is a small price to pay if the technocratic government is effective and lifts the country out of the current mess.

      So long as these technocrats don’t start trying to reformulate social policy to fit their own ideas of how society should function, I really don’t see a problem. When they start to that, then there will be legitimate cause for concern.

      Aside, the technocracy has already made its first blunder – they appointed the wrong Braga, instead of inviting Professor Franco Braga of Rome University to be Assistant Agriculture Minister, they invited Franceso Braga of Guelph (Canada) University – whoops bowled by Googley :)

  20. Everyone so miserable, I understand that ‘Facebook’ has suffered a huge reduction in the use of it’s services today in the UK. I mean why today.
      

    • I heard that Congress is looking to curb Facebook’s invasion of privacy, Perhaps fb users got word of it and said “oh dear, maybe I better not use it”

      The upcoming IPO may not get put as much dosh into zukerburger’s pocket was he was hoping to get

      But if Congress does anything it’ll wind up in the Supreme Court for a First Amendment ruling

  21. @kfc1404,the market has not priced in a totally irrational response from IRAN to the situation in Syria,which is coming,(why do both Russia and the US deploy major warships plus support vessels in near Syrian waters?),so the Euro project,the impending collapse of a couple of big banks,and a rather nasty recession is no big deal,if you think of it.

    • “..so the Euro project,the impending collapse of a couple of big banks,and a rather nasty recession is no big deal,if you think of it”

      Might that not be the intent?

      Oh well, just call me a cynic.

      • Jwo
        I’m on that page too, I’ve always thought that the Americans would like to see the collapse of the Euro, particularly Wall St, the hedgies would prefer not to have the single currency, much more money to made that way.

  22. Quite clearly Quantative easing was never stopped atfter QE3 supposedly finished in June. The Fed just carried on printing on the QT and now here they are handing out all their phoney money to all their mates banks around the world just to keep this ponzi scheme going! Its NOT Gordon Brown its the banks helped by the US government with the aid of the unauditable Federal reserve. Just watch the physical gold and silver prices diverge to even greater distances from the massively corrupt paper ponzi spot price.

  23. Likely a true scenario, and very sad. It looks like the fulfilment of the famous quote from Lord Acton:
    “The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks.”
    Now we know the likely winners.

  24. IF the lender knows that poor credit risks will get their bonds paid off, THEN, the risk is zero and they will get the extra spread because of the low credit ratings. Just show us a haircut on any major bond lender [like in GM] and then things will change. American Airlines was allowed to go belly-up absent the whine for stock by the unions. The EU and their zombie banks can shuffle debt around until they run out of suckers. Then, the markets close and they collapse.

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