Erdogan…fanatic coming out of the closet

I was watching the BBCNews Channel’s Dateline London programme earlier today, anchored as always by the likeable Gavin Essler. To his right sat an Israeli diplomat, and next to him a Palestinian diplomat….if that isn’t an oxymoron.

The Palestinian bloke suggested that, after decades of prevarication, it was time for Israel to recognise the Palestinian State’s right to a seat at the UN. You sort of have to agree with that.

“Tell me, ” asked Essler ever so gently of the Arab gentleman, “Why should the Israelis recognise your seat at the UN, when you don’t recognise their right to exist at all?”

The Palestinian representative immediately began talking about disgraceful Israeli behaviour in Gaza. Nobody guided him back to the point. There was much thoughtful nodding around the table. Then the Israeli diplomat observed:

“We signed an agreement with the elected Government of Gaza, and then they disappeared….not by democratic means, I might add”.

Voices were raised. I switched over to another news channel – CNN. And there was our old friend Recep Erdogan, talking about how Israel was plotting to come between Turkey and Iran.

What has actually happened is that Erdogan has allowed NATO to install a radar defence system in his country. As a NATO ‘ally’, it would be a rum business indeed if Turkey were to refuse such a thing. But Recep’s closest chum on earth, former Iranian agent and fraudulently elected President Mahmoud Ahmahadinnejhad, has had one of his eye-rolling wobblies about it. So this is being interpreted as Israel interfering between friends.

“Should you be friends with a State like Iran?” his Arab interviewer asked politely. My question would’ve been, “Isn’t it a bit rich of you to talk about interference given your recent war-mongering about Gaza peace flotillas?”, but let that pass: Erodgan answered by saying that his best mate Mahmoud fully understood the radar defence need – neither an answer to the question…nor indeed the truth.

From a very young age – about the time Krushchev started telling the West that Russian peoples peaceloving and Americans warmongering fascists – I have had this really quite uncanny ability to tell honesty from bollocks. This is because – even at the age of ten – I was already aware of a passionate interest in media persuasion generally, and propaganda specifically. I have read, listened and even attended rallies where speakers presented up as down, green as red, and Tuesday as Marble Arch. I never accepted that the Caudillo might be quite nice really, that the Nationalist Party in South Africa treated the blacks equally, that Breshnev had no expansionist ambitions, that Vladimir Putin doesn’t want the old USSR territories back, or indeed that the Israelis are baby-skewering war criminals.

In 1965 I went to East Berlin and smelt the fear, while reading enormous placards that announced ‘The West’s collapse is imminent, long live the DDR’. Somehow, Erich Hoenneker could never explain why people were risking life and limb to get out of the dump: the nearest he got to bothering was to assert (and this is a direct quote) “Escapees to the West are nothing more than anti-social elements working for American intelligence”. Each time I pointed all this out to fellow-students in the Liverpool University politics department two years later, the laughter would go on for hours: I was a naive victim of bourgeois liberal propaganda, they insisted. As Ghandi said, “First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they put you in prison. Only then do you know that you’ve won”. I do not doubt that Nelson Mandela would agree with every word.

My conclusion over the years has been, nine times out of ten, that for every psychopathic political liar there are a million dupes prepared to believe his or her every word. Josef Goebbels, Eva Peron, Joe Stalin, Joe McCarthy, Verwoerd, Jacob Zuma, Robert Mugabe, Travellers’ leaders, Sadam Hussein, Charlie Whelan, Lord Mandelson, Tony Blair, Rupert Murdoch, Wen Ziabao, Mao Tse Tung, Richard Nixon….it makes no difference what side of the political spectrum they’re on: mad people are mad people, and sensible democratic leaders should have little trouble in choosing the sane over the manipulatively delusional.

Bankers, multinational companies, media barons, scam artists, political power-freaks and religious maniacs will lie and lie and lie until they reach the point where, quite literally, they too believe the bollocks. George Orwell understood this, as did Norman Mailer, Aldous Huxley, Aleksander Solzhynetsin, Charles Dickens and a host of other visionaries unwilling to deny the evidence of their experience.

The profound problem we face in the West is that such discernment is almost entirely absent from our political classes. All of them at one time or another – but notably Obama, Cameron, Osborne, Sarkozy, Blair, Brown and Harman – have allied themselves with utterly undesirable people and regimes. The Berlusconis, Gadhaffis, Mugabes, Kim Il Sungs and Erdogans crave the respectability they need  to retain power. Only rarely do they find a shortage of Western leaders prepared to give them such recognition.

Islamism – not moderate Islam – is the Nazism of our time. Hear what they say, but note what they do: there is always a Grand Canyon of mendacious hypocrisy between the two.

(Cue lots of threads telling me I’m an Arabophobe).


  1. “(Cue lots of threads telling me I’m an Arabophobe).”

    Of course you must be, in the same way as if you didn’t want Homosexuality to be made compulsory you must be a Homophobe, the list is endless but you (they) get the drift. Anyone who disagrees with the particularly self serving ends of those grinding the axe, will always be shouted down with endless nasty laberls attached. It isn’t just the Left who have learnt how to use this tactic as a weapon.

    Interestingly though, I sense there are an increasing number of people beginning to understand that the tactic is just that. Perhaps because they are becoming a victim of the ‘labels’. Even traditional Labour voters for instance are a little irritated when they are told they are Racist or a bigot, because they would like some sensible control of the number of people admitted to the UK to become instantly dependent. Perhaps preferring a system based on the ability of the country to pay for it, for instance.

    As to your main point, I haven’t believed anything the the ‘establishment’ has said for several decades and I don’t actually know anyone who does.


  2. “The profound problem we face in the West is that such discernment is almost entirely absent from our political classes”

    And you could add elements of the fourth estate to that group who lack discernment.


  3. You are so right.

    USA Today reports that the Saudi king has given women the right to vote beginning in 2015. They’re not holding their breath.


  4. Nope, sorry, the DM is part of the establishment, so neither or indeed anything from the DM. So more ‘doubting Thomas’ than any sort of ‘phobe’ thankyou. I tend to rely on experiences, they are more reliable.


  5. DDR
    In the old days of the DDR – when we lived in what was then the BRD, there were always tramps the most of whom came from the DDR. There was an interesting feature about most of them – they came from the areas of the DDR where West German TV could not be seen (despite it being seriously illegal to watch this at home).


  6. Very disappointing John. Israel is an apartheid state who have been committing ongoing atrocities against the Palestinians since their founding. And when challenged they always fall back on the same tired shibboleths: “You don’t recognize our right to exist,” You’re anti–semitic,” “God gave us this land.” etc.

    As always the devil is in the details. The big ole tired one: “You don’t recognize our right to exist.” What Israel wants is the Palestinians to recognize the right of Israel to exist as they define it, with out specifying borders. I.e. Israel’s borders are what they say they are–end o story.

    And what is this nonsense that Hamas wasn’t democratically elected. Yes they were and it’s time they were recognized as the voice of Gaza.

    As for Palestinian violence. If someone’s boot is on your neck and you ask them to remove it. If they don’t ordinary justice allows you to stab them in the ankle.


  7. “What has actually happened is that Erdogan has allowed NATO to install a radar defence system in his country. As a NATO ‘ally’, it would be a rum business indeed if Turkey were to refuse such a thing”

    Disortation of information again.
    Wasnt the radar supposed to be in another NATO ally called Poland?
    But they refused after russia protested and the polish people were against it!

    So Turkey again is a good ally of us by putting a radar for our protection and the protection of your precious israel! Because Turkey has nothing to gain from the radar, Iran or Russia wont attack Turkey!

    Iran hasnt attacked anybody for the past 100 years. For example its border with Turkey hasnt changed for more than 300 years.
    But it endured a British/American intervention, with the overtrowhing of the democratically pm Mosadeq in the fifties (installing US puppet Shah) and a attack of a US/Western supported Saddam in the eighties. Now it has to endure sanctions because of it supposedly nuclear ambitions. While there is a state called Israel who has nuclear weapons That even can reach Britian.


  8. “We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”

    “We must expel the Arabs and take their places.”

    “If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti – Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”
    Quotes by David Ben-Gurion
    Polish born Israeli Statesman and Prime Minister (1948-53, 1955-63). Chief architect of the state of Israel and revered as Father of the Nation, 1886-1973


  9. John
    I hope that Turkey will inspire Arab states to join with it in teaching Tel Aviv a long overdue lesson, one that the Western world has shirked. Israel’s crimes against the Palestinian people since its founding in 1948 when entire villages were leveled and their unarmed inhabitants were murdered or driven out by the ruthless Irgun, Stern Gang and Haganah are too numerous to list. Israel is a state that was born from terrorism and until this day lives by the gun. Israeli politicians love to highlight “Arab terror” while feigning amnesia when it comes to their own terrorist acts.

    They forget that their “pioneers” blew up Jerusalem’s King David and Semiramis hotels, the massacre of Palestinians in Deir Yassin, Dawayma and Kibya, their attack on the USS Liberty for which Cairo was on the point of being nuked by the US in retaliation.

    They’ve gotten away with their involvement in the 1982 slaughter of refugees in Lebanon’s Sabra and Shatilla camps, the killing of 1,200 Lebanese civilians in 2006 and “Operation Cast Lead” that robbed 1,400 Gazans of their lives in 2008. And until now, they’ve succeeded in holding the 1.5 million residents of Gaza in a virtual prison for years without any meaningful comeback from the international community.

    It’s utterly shameful that Israel has been permitted to destroy Palestinian lives and livelihoods, incinerate orchards and olive groves, lock up young children for throwing stones and humiliate a proud people, true sons and daughters of the soil, for over 60 years to the sound of the West’s cheers.


  10. “Tell me, ” asked Essler ever so gently of the Arab gentleman, “Why should the Israelis recognise your seat at the UN, when you don’t recognise their right to exist at all?”

    So what? While Israel asks the Palestinians to recognize Israel, Israel self doesnt recognizes anybody, it still goes further with building illegal settlement in the Westbank, occupyies the Golan Heights (syria) and the Sheba Farms (lebanon), has put a illegal embargo on Gaza. Isnt that hypocrit?


  11. I’m a “slogger” in everything except for this strange inability to see anything wrong in the modern state of Israel. If it is bad for the world for the religious maniacs of Tehran to have nuclear weapons, then how come it is OK for religious maniacs of Tel Aviv to have them, and to get away with denying they have them to this day and kidnapping and imprisoning the brave man who got this story out to the world. The first leaders of the state of Israel were terrorists against the British for goodness sake… and when they finally got a leader who looked like he could bring both sides together he was assassinated by those terrible Palestinians (oh wait a minute… no, it was a right wing Jewish maniac).
    Recent leaders have been as corrupt as anything, and now the population are taking protests to the streets. By all means condemn “bollocks” where you see it in the Middle East but don’t leave out the Israelis!


  12. Whilst the USS Liberty incident was hushed up, I don’t think you are correct about Cairo on the verge of being nuked-the “key” to activate the weapons was not released (as I understand the position this needs Presidential involvement) and the weapons were therefore inert.

    As ever, open to correction by those with direct knowledge.


  13. Well, as you predicted that stirred it up a bit.

    As far as the UK is concerned, I don’t think we’ve got a dog in this fight have we? Probably best not to go to the ring at all then, let alone wager on the outcome.


  14. I’ve worked out what the problem is here…Mossad have built some kind of radar jamming device to block critical functioning of bollocks deconstruction whenever Israel is involved. If you want to list issues with Arabic/Islamic societies and cultural thinking that’s fine. There are many issues to be raised. However why ignore Israeli failings which are almost too numerous to mention.

    Some of the points have been made above. Let’s fixate above Iran’s nuclear ambitions whilst ignoring Isreal’s large stock of WMD. Let’s forget Israel’s terrorist origins to kick out the British and then simply declare themselves masters of another people’s land. Lets not mention that three Israeli prime ministers were former terrorists. Another, Ariel Sharon, who was the army commander involved with failing to prevent a massacre of palestinians at a refugee camp was actually the subject of an inquiry, an Israeli inquiry that stated he should never hold any position of power again. But when elected we dealt with him but not the elected representatives of the palestinians. When Israel assassinates its enemies abroad, as last summer in Dubai, we manage to quickly forget about it, even after their assassins used forged copies of British citizens passports.

    The majority of Jews believe on religious grounds that they are the chosen race (wasn’t there another set of people who once believed themselves to be a master race). The racism built into Israeli society and law frequently shows itself. For example there was a widely publicised case last year when a Palestinian man was jailed for not informing a Jewish woman he was arabic – he had told her his name was David, from which she assumed he was Jewish, before they went off for consentual sex. When she later found out he was actually Palestinian she complained to the police that she had been “duped” as she would not want sexual relations with a palestinian. The court duly found him guilty of misrepresenting his racial origin and jailed him. When the Nazi’s did this sort of thing we fought a war with them, when the South Africans did it we banned them from international sport. But hey lets instead focus on Arab/islamic foibles, apart of course from those countries selling us oil and generally following American foreign policy dictats. I’m glad Turkey and Egypt are becoming more independent and vocal in their support for the palestinians. As sure as hell the Americans or British wont.


  15. If ever there was an example of perfidy (exceeded only by their arrogant gall) the June 8, 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was it. The Liberty was a lightly armed intelligence ship gathering information between Egypt and Israel during the 6 Day War. What the Israeli strategic intention was has never been really clear but their operational intention was to sink the Liberty and leave no survivors. As it was they killed 34 seamen and wounded 171. The Israelis called it a “tragic mistake” but the crew members knew better. They had seen Israeli reconnaissance planes flying low over their ship for hours and onboard radiomen heard Israeli pilots state it was a US ship.

    One of the most heroic stories to come out of that disgusting betrayal was of an Israeli lead pilot who refused to attack and flew back to Israel. He was subsequently and quickly court–marshaled.

    Aside from the geopolitics of keeping their client state happy it is very hard to understand the US’s lack of reaction and cover–up. Perhaps it was a joint US/Israeli false–flag attempt to launch an attack against Egypt.


  16. I should add the take–away from the Liberty is that Israel will do whatever she feels is in her own interest regardless. Let’s hope they don’t decide that a nuclear attack somewhere is that “whatever.”


  17. If by “we” you mean Britain, we went to war with Germany because it invaded Poland, whose independence Britain had guaranteed, not because Germany was persecuting its Jewish population.


  18. Arrogant, but harmless.
    Hamas wants to wipe Israel from the face of the earth.
    In a choice between arrogance and murderous bigotry, I’ll take arrogance every time.


  19. Like I said, cue lots of…..
    Most of these comments make my case for me, so I shall refrain from engaging.
    Bu thank you anyway.


  20. Poland didnt refuse, Russia blew a gasket, because a US radar would come with a US national security interest, and Putin wants to reoccupy Poland.

    Iran forever surrendered the right to nuclear weapons when it signed the None Proliferation Treaty.
    Israel signed no such treaty.


  21. Iran surrendered its right to nuclear weapons when it signed the NPT, and received civillian nuclear technology in recompense.
    Israel has never signed the NPT, and created its own civillian and military program.
    The two are not comparable


  22. Come off it, John. There are two sides to every question and it is unlike you to come down so heavily on one of those sides. The vast majority of Palestinians and Israelis are willing to live in peace together. To suggest that all the blame for the trouble lies with Hamas alone is disingenuous, given the intransigence and ruthlessness of certain elements in the upper echelons of power in Israel. Meanwhile, any well-balanced view finds the extreme actions of both sides to be repugnant and uncivilised and there is a widespread wish for the cycles of horror to stop.


  23. John,

    Casualties from 2000 to 2007 in Gaza United Nations Report (Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs)
    Of those killed in the conflict, 4,228 have been Palestinians, 1,024 Israelis,
    In contrast the total number of Palestinians, both civilians and combatants killed by the Israeli security forces or Israeli individuals, remains relatively high. In 2007, for example, for every one Israeli death there were 25 Palestinian deaths compared to 2002 when the ratio was 1:2.5.
    Of the overall number of children killed, 88% were Palestinian and 12 % were Israeli. The number of Israeli children killed has declined markedly while that of Palestinian children remains high.
    And in the Dec 2008/Jan 2009 Israeli attack on Gaza the death toll was 1417 Palestinians vs. 9 Israelis. Those totals killed included 313 Palestinian children and 0 Israeli.
    That is the stark reality which makes me find your snide dismissal of our comments so beneath contempt.

    I will be interested to see how you uphold your standards of free speech here. BTW not engaging is a cop–out seeing as you raised the issues first.


  24. Patz
    So you’d be happier if Hamas Rockets kiled more Jews?
    Do you know why so few die? Because all of the buildings in the target areas are reinforced to survive direct hits.

    Do you know why so many palestinians die?
    Because they are locked out of their bomb shelters by the terrorists, or even herded into danger zones at gun point.


  25. Netanyahu said in the US congress about the occupation of Westbank: We are not like the British in India or the Belgians in Congo.

    Last week he said at the UN: so what? The British also have airbases in Cyprus and the Americans have troops in Iraq.

    This man just spits in the face of Britian and people like John are supporting him.
    Not the mention Netanyahu s admiration for Israels first pm Begin who bombed the king david hotel, killing thereby British civilians and soldiers!


  26. Rage on Tory. What a joke: “Because they are locked out of their bomb shelters by the terrorists, or even herded into danger zones at gun point.” I guess those nasty Palestinians just keep punching the Israelis in the fist with their faces. Shameful.

    I guess if there’s any old Nazis left they must be roaring with laughter. They laid the Holocaust on the Jews and the Palestinians pay for it with their land, treasure and blood.


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