DEPOSITOR LEVIES: Now Frankfurt calls for Italy to be plundered.

In the light of the Cyprus heist, the UK, US, and Spain are considering depositor haircuts too. As The Slog predicted last week, the Germans have this in mind for everyone.

Apologies for this, but WordPress has managed to swallow up an earlier post I made. Instead, it posted something in draft, and trashed the other one.

So herewith a summary plus update.

The Spanish finance Minister has floated the idea of a 0.2% depositor levy there. The Bank of England and the FIDC have issued a joint paper suggesting something similar, only bigger, in the event of an emergency in the UK or US.

Clearly, the idea of embezzling depositor funds is catching on. But Germany – who else? – is taking things a step further by suggesting that somebody else’s depositors be raped. And for this little experiment, the Germans have chosen Italy. Refer if you like to an earlier Slogpost about Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung printing bollocks about personal wealth in Italy being higher than that in Germany.

Now Joerg Kraemer, chief economist of the German Commerzbank, has enlarged on this mendacity, and called for private savings accounts in Italy to be levied at 15%.  “A tax rate of 15 percent on financial assets would probably be enough to push the Italian government debt to below the critical level of 100 percent of gross domestic product,” he told Handelsblatt yesterday.

Net financial assets of the Italians amounts to 173% of GDP. This was significantly more than the net financial assets of the Germans, which corresponds to 124% GDP, said Kramer Handelsblatt Online. “So it would make sense, in Italy a one-time property tax levy,” suggested the Bank economist. “A tax rate of 15 percent on financial assets would probably be enough to push the Italian government debt to below the critical level of 100 percent of gross domestic product.”

Do please read the piece at the link above – it’s repeated again at the link below. It shows how Berlin (aka Schäuble) is systematically building up a body of shibboleth crap in order to support the infinite German capacity for “I am not to blame, oh woe is poor me”.

Recently at The Slog: How Schäuble briefed against Draghi to make Italy look richer than Germany

The Slog wishes to apologise for the lack of comment management over the last 72 hours. Things have been a little hectic here.

98 thoughts on “DEPOSITOR LEVIES: Now Frankfurt calls for Italy to be plundered.

  1. As I read the earlier, now gone, Old Lady – FDIC joint paper, it was that there were plans to plunder the insurance guarantee pot, not to actually give bank depositors haircuts. It’s not good, but not nearly as bad as what was (may still be?) being foisted upon the Cypriots.

    The danger with Kraemer’s above comment, if correct, is that it sends entirely the wrong signal at entirely the wrong time.

    • I think the point is that once the pot is gone, what do you do next time? As we know by now, there’s generally a next time.

      The question I have is if as we are always being motherfrickin told, the UK with Sterling can QE itself out of absolutely anything and therefore “it couldn’t happen here”, wtf are they even mooting this as a possibility?

      Clearly then, there are limits to QE.

  2. Levying a tax on savers money is always going to be a wrong signal at any time.Get your money out now before Osborne passes a law to take it from you legally. No doubt he’ll point to the europrats as the people who made him do it.

    • Well exactly the silence from the British Government as regards the issue of bank deposit confiscations has been truly deafening. They are quite happy to talk about how they are going to financially protect the UK military victims but as for any reassurance that they wont emulate this crime here in the UK – nothing.
      Cyprus has given us a glimpse of what’s likely to happen in the future and it sure ain’t pretty.

    • Seems rather sensible of them to keep their mouths firmly shut at this time and let the fools in Europe continue screwing up. Would you believe any promise Cameron or Osborne made? Same goes for that oaf Balls.

  3. Many readers on this site are probably of an age to have been savers for the last 20-30 years. Born of Depression influenced parents, it simply seemed the right thing for us to do. We lived within our means and were able to save. At the same time we watched, frustratedly, as our government’s did not live within their means, used deficit funding and built up huge debts. Many governments are now no longer able to borrow as before. The solution has been to try some combination of increasing taxes and reducing expenses with limited success. They have now tried to add a third option for reducing their debt: levying savers bank accounts. So chapeau to Cyprus. Long may your resistance last.

    • Funny how the central banks, financial industry and politicians keeps mocking people buying gold whilst privately doing the complete opposite.
      I would love to know how much money has gone out the door from UK bank accounts to buy gold. The banks absolutely hate it and try and put as money obstacles in the way they possibly can, declining transactions when there is money in the account on the grounds of security and a whole load of other fatuous reasons.
      One of the more enjoyable experiences to be had in a bank is to go in and force them to make a big transfer to a gold bullion dealer. They hate it.

      • Ensure that you have physical possession (of the real stuff): no paper IOUs. If held for you bullion can be readily confiscated if it even exists

      • Not my line but I believe that gold (and silver) coins are not (currently) liable to UK Capital Gains Tax. Shame the Banks won’t supply Gold Sovereigns over the counter at face value!

      • @AJC – Investment gold is currently VAT free and if you buy British Sovereigns or Britannia coins they are exempt capital gains tax on the ground they are legal tender.

        My preference is the Gold Sovereign as they have been around since 1489 and are the probably the most recognised gold bullion coin in the world. They are also small and relatively difficult to forge compared to a gold bar. Hence they are probably the easiest coin to sell (or spend) should the need arise.

      • Further to the above silver coins are subject to the dreaded VAT but the UK Silver Brittania is exempt capital gains tax.

      • Mark: Agree on Sovereigns which I hold in abundance with the following exception on Britannias. The 2013 output is 24 kt gold i.e., 9999 fine. That means they will become very popular internationally and hence liquid. So I would buy them when they become available at the right price.;

      • @oldasiahand – You seem like a fellow Gold bug

        Of the 1 oz bullion Britannia coins I actually prefer the pre 2013 Crown Gold 22ct version as although they are not pure gold they are a much more durable gold alloy and what I would regard as real coins. I prefer coins that can be touched not very soft 24ct Gold.
        The 2001 Britannia is my personal favourite with the wonderful Britannia and the Lion design inspired by the 1837 Una and the Lion double Gold Sovereign.
        As this is not a coin forum I suppose I better now shut up.

  4. Deliberate.
    Hope Beppe doesn’t let them troll him into a situation.
    Glad I have all my financial obligations with one Bank and the bare minimum with another.
    When this happens they can all go * themselves.
    As if that isn’t what they’re aiming for.

  5. This is only the beginning, a minor indignation compared to the next trick. Gold sequestration possibly or, those without a mortgage might find themselves suddenly with one. Like I said, ‘You Ain’t Seen Nothing Yet’.
    Don’t be under any illusion that ‘The Dream’ is going to come to an end without every, and I mean EVERY option being exercised first.

  6. The possibilities are: they are testing the water to see just how far they can push before there is blood on the street, or they are trying to cause econogeddon, or they are trying to break up either the Eurozone, the EU or both, or the whole thing is simply smoke and mirrors to hide something truly huge, perhaps not even an economic matter.

    I doubt even God knows which leaves me completely flummoxed, although I suspect, having run out of every other option, the first is the most likely.

  7. COO COO Sloggers. Shock Horror! It has been blatently obvious for some years now that anybody with property, money in the bank is going to be taxed to death to pay for this obvious outcome of pursuing infinite growth in a finite world. I really do not understand why anybody is surprised.

  8. We are all doomed? Not necessarily.Terry Smith at Fundsmith has got it right and put in the thick end of £25 m of his own money.AND,so far,he is outperforming the rising cost(thankyou, Majestic) of a decent Sauvignon Blanc or Merlot.Liquid assets,n’est ce pas?

  9. I just wonder what a banker is thinking myself? If everybody removes what they think they have in money with nothing to leverage, no way to create that portion of growth, one heck of a black hole of debt with no deposits. Gets uglier by the day and I can’t believe any self righteous robbing banker would want to be exposed in such a manner. A poltician we know doesn’t wear any clothes but banker thought they did. So with the concept of a euro in your hand it is going to be worth far more than the 50 plastic cards by electronic payment methods.

    • Mark
      A banker can create money from nothing – leverage it from there too should you need. No customers, no deposits, nuffin. Double-entry bookkeeping gone bananas. One side debt – one side credit.

      That’s how they manage their off the books stuff – it literally comes from nowhere and all the bank needs to do is pay the interest on the debts they have created. Which with ZIRP is practically nothing. It’s so beautiful!

      All you need do then is pocket the profits from the credit side. All you need is a banker’s licence and a suitably loose system of regulation and accounting standards.

      You see, they didn’t need any clothes at all!

      Anyway, what’s all this about “self righteous banker”? If they get it wrong they just shove the toxic stuff onto the taxpayer – like Bank of America did in October 2011 – http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-18/bofa-said-to-split-regulators-over-moving-merrill-derivatives-to-bank-unit.html

      What’s more they did it in broad daylight. They weren’t too fussed at being exposed, were they? It all blew over in a few days and it was back to normal. In short, no self respecting banker is going to lose any sleep anytime soon.

      • Great North Road,

        Are you alluding to the wise words of Sir Josiah Stamp?

        “Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take away from them the power to create money and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money.” (Said to be from an informal talk at the University of Texas in the 1920s, but as yet unverified.)

      • “If they get it wrong they just shove the toxic stuff onto the taxpayer.”

        After having gotten the bailout wrong…German fueled illegal Greek bond haircut pushes losses onto private investors… among them, Cypriot banks, Cypriot banks go tits up from debt… since they “got it wrong” again.. illegal German solution?… shove it onto the taxpayers… yup.

      • Stuart, I wasn’t alluding to anybody, the words from Josiah Stamp are right enough. The real point I wanted to make was that it was so simple, so easy. In our day of pdf signatures and pdf contracts, this creation of money is now automated – and America’s mountain of derivatives was estimated at over $700 trillion. Sure you can say they are all balanced out by their counterparties – only … the problem is that with so many of them, have you the time to sort out the mess? BoA’s attitude was “stuff it” and to think of it no more. They aren’t the only ones to have done this either, Goldman Sachs were a little more discreet about their affairs.

  10. An odd thing about this all is pareto or 80-20, though it’s more like 90-10 in reality. Governments get most of their tax revenue from a small minority. Now I know the banksters etc are not excactly popular and I’m not one of them but richer folk do have ways of avoiding tax.

    So if they do an all time shafting of us folk who have worked hard and stored a few groats away for our dotage then what next? My guess is they kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

    I’ve been unfairly treated by HMRC in the past and they expropriated some hard earned cash. Got it back in spades and HMRC will never find it. Same principle applies writ large if they try to pull this one on the population. Tax my ar*e, deposit appropriation is theft. Steal my money then see how much you get in the future…

    Likely to be 0% of nothing. And if other sensible people react to my way of thinking what happens to a fractional reserve banking system and economic expansion based on credit? Rule of law, democracy etc etc….?

    These people are either fools or desperate or both. Many have studied PPE at the finest Universities that money can buy but fail to understand the basics.

  11. Forgot this bit … could be the start of the real action and everything else up to this point was the cold financial war. That phase looks to be ending and the real hot one about to begin … just a feeling because I can’t see how you can put this rabbit back in the hat.

    • I agree – this is a game changer. Can’t believe they have been sostupid on so many levels. I’d like to think it was a cunning plan but struggle to seethe objective here for the main protaganists. I think at the moment this is an almighty cock up.

      • Herman Van Rompuy Pump will make a big speech to his EU subjects calm and contentment will be restored among the faithless panicky plebeians.
        We can all be so grateful we are the citizens of his wonderful EU.

      • What a useless triad Barroso, Van Rompuy and Baroness (Catherine) Ashton: who elected (selected) these idiots?

  12. These last 4 years here in Greece, watching Germany and EU co. dismantle the country, destroy the economy, and bit by bit destroy all the long held standards of societal responsibility (pensions, labor protections, affordable taxation, healthcare, education) and all semblance of a developed European country and drag us into third world status… all this time the world watched and did nothing, cowering as if Gemany would not notice they were in it up to the tits as bad as we were or worse (Spain)… and Greeks were shouting from the roof tops like a mad men… extolling that if you let them get away with it here, it is only a matter of time until they do it to everyone… here we are.

    • Very true Ioannis.

      It seems to me that the Eunatics are now going for broke, or that in the case of Italy especially, they have something big up their sleeve in order to establish a government that will serve them rather than the Italian people. Why else would they be willing to put forward a proposal that is guaranteed to cause uproar ? Grillo’s support has risen about 5% since the election already.

      There are however many examples of historical precedent for bunker mentality & subsequent downfall, involving power junkies.

      • Yep. To revisit the old saw, we know that up to 5% of the population are to some degree sociopathic; we know that in a hierarchical society these people are disproportionately found at the top of the pyramid; we also know that they have no sense of fear and that this leaves them unable to adequately recognise danger, prone to hubris, grandiosity.

        Given enough time, fatal overreach, exposure & downfall is mercifully inevitable.

      • The sociopath argument, I admit I did not take seriously the first few times… but the more and more people apply the mold of sociopathy to the machinations, and happenings involved the more I am convinced, fascinated, and more than a little concerned… MerkeSchaubles downright indifference to the suffering of millions puzzles me, until I see it through the filter you mention… scary..

      • Politicians in tax avoidance safe haven Cyprus aren’t crooks? Hmmmm… they are all crooks… and the fact that they are planning to steal peoples money straight from the banks should be enough to make you reconsider who the “crooks” are… but yes, Greek politicians are especially loathesome sacks of pus.

      • kfc, must be the paradise, cos at the entrance they asked me to leave all my valuables behind.
        I am still a bit worried – the sign above the entrance reads “Eulag”.
        :-i

    • Ioannis, tell me, why is your country still a member of this evil empire that destroys the wonderful social heaven of Greece? Why don’t you just default, reinstall the mighty drachma and become the rich and prosperous economic powerhouse you were before?

      • Oh boy… your infantile attempt to invoke an emotional response from me is hilariously dim… of course, being as sophomoric, and child like in it’s content it is no more insulting or inciting to me than if a flea insulted me for having salty blood. The answer to your question should be painfully obvious… now, after 60 years, we finally have Germany paying back some of the loans they forgot to finish paying down here… now, after 60 years of having lied, cheated, and defrauded they’re way out of their obligations… we know they can’t be trusted to do the right thing… so we will be milking the Germans for as much and as long as we possibly can… until it is enough to fix the problem they bungled , or, until they completely screw up the management of the euro (more likely) and it falls apart at which point we will go back to living in paradise, and laughing about how much we charge you to keep your concrete bunkers warm from our natural gas and oil. Thanks!

      • yeah but Ionnis I’d like to see the Greek military being a little more forthcoming against the Fourth Reich.

      • The Greek army has been infiltrated by the 4th reich (over 60% voted for Golden Dawn) and if they had they’re way they would be dealing with a far more dangerous enemy than any Nazi… Greek politicians.

      • Ioannis, you seriously seem to believe the delusional nonsense you tell here again and again. Well, that is your good right, if it pleases you, and i do brave your opinions, although i would like to know how it would be for Greece today if not the British would have kept you with great effort and some cost from Communism á la Monsieur Stalin after the War, and if your country would have been part of the eastern block up until 1989 and would now be in a position today as, let’s say, Bulgaria, Romania or Moldova. I bet you would not wish to fall into the Russian and Turkish sphere of influence that much as you now seem to do, instead of being caught in the banksters net – and the German Nazi oppression, never forget the most evil of all evil devils on the planet today!

        But this is what you will get if you so eagerly wish to get rid of the Europeans, and be able to f**k the mean, terrible Germans on your way out, despite the fact that it is them who guaranteed your protection from going bust completely and fall into total chaos, with some billions worth of their income, pensions and savings, the money of the average German taxpayer and *not* that of the German banksters, the industrialists or the political clowns. You insult these people on and on in the most rude and outrageous manner possible and you spread mendacious, malicious lies about what Germany, in your humble opinion, owes to Greece, despite the well documented compensation of Greece by the Federal Republic after WWII for the damage done in German name by the Nazis in your country.

        The moment you stop this malice and engage in civilized discussion will be the moment i’ll honour your words. But i am sure you do not care about me stating this here at all. The funny aspect herein is that you are more German in the most negative sense in your mundane Nazi-here, Nazi-there, Nazi-everywhere -statements as any travesty of a German ever could be: Bossy to the bone and showing off without restraint …

        The good thing is that you are not the voice of the Greek people, as much as you would like to be.

      • JHM… instead of delving into your “feelings” and sensitivies… I challenge you to disprove any of the statements I have made, if you can do that I will answer your emotional rant… if you can engage in a dialogue about facts… than i can take you seriously. As far as the British… I have no problem with the British, never once said I did… in fact, I am British. Additionally you misrepresent the facts when you talk about the percentage of the damages that the German republic paid after the war… there were war reparations, Germany paid half… of course it doesn’t matter as I was talking about the forced occupation loan… which to this day was NEVER paid back… but please don’t let your ignorance of the actual content keep you from speaking out. Like I said a lot of what I say about Germans is theater… I am simply speaking in the same terms as they do when they consistently assassinate the character of Greece… it was not us that started this slanderous avalanche of negative stereotyping… but boy, do people get upset when you dish it back (that is why you state I am being “German” like, I am simply acting as they do to illicit response like the one you’re having from brainwashed sheeples in order to expand the public thinking on these matters… it is done that way on purpose. . As far as the average German tax payer… I would say I probably care for them exactly as much as they care for the average Greek tax payer. Anyway it seems silly for me to explain any of this to you anyway… I doubt you could understand my means or even entertain concepts outside of opinions… and so far, that is all you have given us your “feelings” on teh subject… please I beg you name one statement I made regarding the events behind this Euromess that was.wrong, if I am “delusional” than it should be easy for you… right? Like you said, if you want to have a civilized conversation please prove some of my “lies”.

  13. On various blogs and forums, people are pointing out that, from a bank’s point of view, deposits into a saving account are regarded as loans to the bank and, as such, should be considered as subject to risk.
    That’s not the way a savings account was sold to me, but it indicates the way these weasels are spinning things in their own favour.

  14. I had not appreciated that Turkey’s objection to Cyprus raising money from Russia using the gas reserves (off the southern coast) are as a proxy for the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.

    “This resource belongs to two communities and the future of this resource cannot be subject to the will of southern Cyprus alone,” a Turkish official said.

  15. Ben Bernanke on whether or not there would ever be a Cyprus style deposit confiscation in the USA… “very unlikely”

    Not exactly no…

  16. Cyprus is small , out of the way , one third occupied by Turkey , flooded with gangsters and their money , like Greece should never have been admitted to the euro.Is easier to let Cyprus go than Greece or Spain .And that is what they are doing .It will give them the chance to restructure eurozone and get back to business as usual . If stupid Cypriots have not invested the funds in Greece but instead in Us or Germany it would be a different story .But they were greedy and chase greek yields .This matter is not financial , is political and Cyprus will be the big chance for Brussels to change lots of things .But lets look at the positive side .All the events of the last 3-4 years in politics and banking too, have pulled back the curtain and what we see is so damn ugly .

    • God… I jwas just joking about how long it would take them to shut it down like 3 days ago… maybe things are worse than they seem… ooof.

      • “Things are never as bad as they seem.”

        ― Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

        There’s an exception to every rule, of course ;)

  17. Well this ZH seems to be the humdinger to wake up too ! http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-22/ecb-set-fair-cypriot-standard-living-capital-controls

    Methinks that the good citizens of Cyprus are about to become nothing more than a small impoverished outpost in the Greater ECB Empire….drip feeding the Proles enough money daily to survive but no more to do any business (or a runner) is possibly the most Orwellian move yet. When the party turns this rough, maybe its time to leave?

    I’d love to know why Russia and Putin appear to have backed out of a deal……or perhaps they havn’t? I wonder if Russian hardball involves Cyprus either going bust or being offered an intollerable EU yoke, waiting for it all to go bang and then moving in and ‘buying’ Cyprus, and everything on Mr Putin’s ‘shopping list’ stunningly cheap, on a ‘fire sale’ ?
    The Universe will unfold !…..

    I keep my money in “One of the safest 20 banks in the world” here in the UK and having read this ZH post….I’m ever so slightly nervous today.

    • I was wondering about Russias sudden loss of interest… the only thing that seems to make sense to me is firstly, we know that many major Russian depositors snuck they’re money out before and maybe they knew it would fluster EU plans for Cyprus and they wanted to use it as leverage to re-negotiate energy contracts with their big clients in Northern Europe? I don’t really know… none of this makes any sense… I just have the feeling that someone made it worth their while somehow. I can’t imagine Cyprus wasn’t desperate enough…

    • @Steviefinn That could be quite a short meeting in May !

      Russian Losses on Cyprus = €10 Billion,
      Gas prices increase to EU = €10 Billion,

      Russian Losses on Cyprus = €20 Billion,
      Gas prices increase to EU = €20 Billion, etc etc

      Simple huh ? Everybody ‘appy with that ?

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  19. There are no parental relationships in international relations. There are geopolitical, commercial, defence relationships and alliances – a give and take.
    Waiting for the Russian white knights to come and save us does no good to Greece and Cyprus.
    Stupid fantasizing has equally contributed to this FUBAR, as has greed, amorality and hybris.
    :-(((

  20. Pingback: EXCLUSIVE: Revealed – the true size of the Great Cyprus Robbery | The Slog. 3-D bollocks deconstruction

  21. Ah John, you’ve got it all the wrong way round, according to Frau Merkel. She is quoted as saying in her parliament today, “It’s unacceptable for Cyprus to test Europe like this.”
    You’ve got to hand it to her … It takes some chutzpah.

  22. Pingback: Revealed – the true size of the Great Cyprus Robbery | JusticeForGreece

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  25. Remember where you saw it first. Introducing the trickle up theory/practice where little bank balances pop like so many champagne bubbles. From the people who brought you ” Free to choose no alternative.”
    If you wanted to crush demand around the world for all but the designated few; Isn’t this step one or two? New world order, 100% used parts = central planning any way you cut it.

  26. Pingback: John Ward – Exclusive : Revealed – The True Size Of The Great Cyprus Robbery – The Looting Of Cyprus By Brussels-Am-Berlin Is The Start Of Global Grand Larceny Against The Citizen – 22 March 2013 | Lucas 2012 Infos

  27. Pingback: John Ward – Exclusive : Revealed – The True Size Of The Great Cyprus Robbery – The Looting Of Cyprus By Brussels-Am-Berlin Is The Start Of Global Grand Larceny Against The Citizen | My Light Warrior "OPPT-IN"

  28. Pingback: John Ward – Exclusive : Revealed – The True Size Of The Great Cyprus Robbery – The Looting Of Cyprus By Brussels-Am-Berlin Is The Start Of Global Grand Larceny Against The Citizen – 22 March 2013 | LightFlicks

  29. Pingback: The True Size Of The Great Cyprus Robbery – The Looting Of Cyprus By Brussels |

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