PAPAL RESIGNATION: Is the Pope gambling that a younger man can win back the Church’s soul?

Doubts grow about motives for ‘retiring’ as Italian and Greek sources offer further clues

ben16Smoke gets in your eyes?

If I recall correctly, it was some time in May last year that a reliable and generous media tipster for The Slog, now largely retired, told me to start looking more closely at financial corruption within the Vatican, and the emergence of a powerful clique using the Papacy’s assumed innocence as a front for its activities. I did note what he said, and I did use a Roman contact to fill me in on anything of relevance. But as so often happens in a world where the unexpected has become commonplace (and invention almost ubiquitous) I moved onto urgent stories and ignored the importance of that one. Big mistake.

Having arrived to a techno-blackout here in France, three days into it I (briefly) got a signal on my mobile and texted a close friend in London to ask what, if anything, of significance had happened. ‘The Pope has resigned’ said the reply. ‘Very funny’ I texted back.  Later that day, having established it was true, I drove over to a friend’s house and went online to read the coverage. As so often with the British press, the vast majority of the coverage was respectful and concerned about the Pope’s health. I simply couldn’t believe that such a historically unique event was being written about in a way that almost suggested normality.

Unable to post normally, I sent one email to a friend travelling in Africa. It said:

‘Jon Sopel was discussing on BBCNews how the Catholic world would deal with having an ex-Pope and a real Pope alive at the same time…..the main thing I’d like to know is why he allowed himself to get elected…and then resigned. This sort of makes him the Richard Nixon of the Papacy, but nobody in the MSM is about to ask anyone what expletives or break-ins might have contributed to his decision. Se there we are: Pope resigns, nothing to see here.’

Now, eventually – over the last few days – a more realistic look behind the scenes has emerged in the Italian media. La Repubblica’s respected Vatican expert Ignazio Ingrao has claimed that Benedict XVI resigned rather than face the backwash from a scandal related to money-laundering (via the Vatican’s bank IOR) and a gay sex ring among the Cardinals.

Although Inside the Vatican editor Robert Moynihan said in a recent newsletter that “today a veil of secrecy was shredded in this eternal city” much doubt has been expressed in the Catholic media as to the story’s validity – particularly as Ingrao’s main source is unnamed. Having looked more closely at the situation, I don’t think the dismissive attitude is at all justified. Having spoken to a Greek friend with a strong interest in the matter (and returned to my original Italian source) there seems to me to be a pretty clear timeline….and it doesn’t sit at all well with Vatican spin. Further, if the Pope’s ‘failing health’ is to remain as the game-changer here, then I suggest the pontiff should be working harder on his role: he doesn’t look or sound like a bloke losing it.

The path to resignation begins properly last Autumn, with Benedict’s butler, Paolo Gabriele, being found guilty of stealing sensitive Papal documents from the Pope’s apartments. The Slog’s Roman source takes up the story:

“The Pope realised very quickly that there was more to the theft than personal greed. Gabriele was being blackmailed. Not only did the butler admit this in private, but the nature of the documents was enough on its own to point in that direction. Benedict is a very bright philosopher and analyst….he knew this was bigger than just a light-fingered butler.”

The Pope quickly called a top secret meeting with three key Vatican allies, and demanded that a full report – for his eyes only – be produced. Most sources name the three cardinals as Salvatore De Giorgi, Julian Herranz, and Josef Tomko. They produced the report by December 17th, and as my source alleges, “it confirmed Benedict’s worst fears of a rotten and widespread clique working towards its own criminal ends. He decided within days to resign on the basis of it”.

From what can be pieced together thus far as to the contents of the report (the next human being to read it will be the new Pope) there seems to have been a gay and/or possibly paedophile element in the Vatican – a group behind the ferocious attempts to smear complainants against paedophile priests and evidence of what La Republicca calls ‘wordly sexual activities’ by them. Sadly, the financial operators within and without IOR appear to have used evidence of such proclivities to get their business done, and done without detection.

Far from being separate cancers within the Vatican, the two scandals are thus entirely mutually dependent: deviants within the Cardinal’s College have been recorded at their work, and forced to do dirty money-laundering work by the men behind it. It all looks very messy, and – having gained a glimpse of the size of the disaster – Benedict XVI resigned. But there remain three theories as to why he did so.

The first is that the pontiff simply cut and ran away from something which would, eventually, implicate him. There isn’t a shred of evidence to support this, and in the light of him having commissioned the urgent report in the first place, such a possibility seems counter-intuitive. It is also out of character for a man who, spanning five decades, has argued tirelessly that the Church needed deep-cleaned renewal in a world where the bad guys seemed to be more and more in control of things.

The second is that Benedict was about to move against the perpetrators, and purge the College of everyone involved. However, he was very quickly appraised, by person or persons as yet unknown, of how the money-launderers would pull down the entire Church around his head by releasing every last grisly detail of the sexual abnormalities involved. While this too is largely supposition, it isn’t anywhere near complete conspiracy theory fantasy: why, for example, are the spokespeople in the Vatican clearly lying about when the Pope made his mind up to go?

The third is that the pontiff saw the size of the task facing him….and decided very shrewdly to hand it over to a younger but equally radical ally. Although not spelt out to this extent, the National Catholic Reporter broadly supports the hypothesis when it writes, ‘he knows that putting things right inside the Vatican will take a tremendous investment of administrative energy, which he doesn’t feel he can supply, and which probably isn’t in his skill set in any event.’

Which of these alternatives (or others) one believes will ultimately be settled by two things: first, who the Cardinals elect in terms of age, closeness to Benedict, and attitude; and second, a closer analysis of how and why the Vatican media machine is churning out defensive bollocks.

There is no shortage of examples illustrating what I mean by that. The deteriorating “strength of mind and body” cited in the Papal resignation announcement received little or nothing in the way of critique. Yet only two days later, Pope Benedict XVI delivered a complex yet lucid 46-minute long public talk, working only occasionally from notes and in the absence of any preparatory text.

In December, Vatican spin-doctor Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, said Pope Benedict’s fourth encyclical would be released in the first half of 2013. Treating the subject of faith, the encyclical would complete a trilogy on the three “theological virtues,” following “Deus Caritas Est” (2005) on charity, and “Spe Salvi” (2007) on hope. Suddenly, this isn’t going to happen. Here was a fighter for fundamental values abandoning the most prominent teaching project of his pontificate….even though it is already largely completed.

I’m also deeply indebted to the research carried out by a hugely reliable Greek source, whose scholastic knowledge of things ecclesiastical is far greater than mine. This source pointed out this press report to me (my emphasis):

‘The pontiff arrived for his final address to Rome’s clergy. Before the Pope’s talk, the several thousand priests in the Vatican’s audience hall greeted him with a standing ovation and a shout of “Long live the Pope!” Cardinal Agostino Vallini, the vicar of Rome, then read a short tribute to the Pope, likening the occasion to the departure of St Paul from Ephesus in the Acts of the Apostles.’

Digging out the New Testament Ephesus account, my contact notes this passage (my emphasis}:

“And now you see me a prisoner already in spirit; I am on my way to Jerusalem, but have no idea what will happen to me there, except that the Holy Spirit, in town after town, has made it clear enough that imprisonment and persecution await me. But life to me is not a thing to waste words on, provided that when I finish my race I have carried out the mission that the Lord Jesus gave me – and that was to bear witness to the Good News of God’s grace…..Be on your guard for yourselves and for all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you the overseers, to feed the Church of God which he bought with his own blood. I know quite well that when I am gone fierce wolves will invade you and have no mercy on the flock. Even from your own ranks there will be men coming forward with a travesty of the truth on their lips to induce the disciples to follow them. So be on your guard, remembering how night and day for three years I never failed to keep you right, shedding tears over each one of you.”
This is an astonishingly apt reference, and certainly leaves one with the impression that here was a College ally of Benedict XVI throwing down the gauntlet to any in the crooked clique expecting to emerge victorious from the forthcoming election.

As I suggest above, the identity of his successor will give out a clear sign as to which ‘side’ has won. For whatever the See’s PR machine tries to say, there is a battle going on at the top of the Catholic Church for its heart and soul. Drugs, possible sexual deviancy and financial wrongdoing do not sit well with the idea of Rome as the believers’ support in times of hardship. This is shaping up to be yet another example of how perverted privilege can triumph. We should all look at the runners and riders very carefully.

Recently at The Slog: Olli Rehn and the Spanish Inquisition

176 thoughts on “PAPAL RESIGNATION: Is the Pope gambling that a younger man can win back the Church’s soul?

  1. Religion stinks§ A Great Master comes, sets the willing and thirsty free, dies and then the forces of darkness, in this case “saint” paul set about destroying all His good work. This scenario is universal to EVERY relgion; religion stinks!

    • @OAH. agreed. Every religion I can think of has been hijacked at some time by the power mad for their own corrupt ends. And in the context of spirituality, yes, we can use the term “forces of darkness”.
      As this blog illustrates day after day, the powerful of this world come from a very dark place.

    • In what way did Saint Paul destroy Jesus’ good work? I suggest you go back and read everything about him (Wikipedia if you don’t want to slog through the Bible). An astonishing man.

      • elenits
        February 24, 2013 at 10:20 am
        In what way did Saint Paul destroy Jesus’ good work?
        I could write a long diatribe quoting scripture from many « Books » from memory, but will keep it short.

        Jesus the Christ offered a living Knowledge of how to access the Divine, God, Infinity, to living people who could then, by their own effort make total and direct contact with the Divine so that they and their Father could be one. The opportunity to go to Heaven whilst still alive.

        Saulus, the enemy of Jesus the Christ whist He was alive, told people that you can get Their by faith alone, after you are dead. It is a LIE !

        After Jesus the Christ died those who knew and followed him directly wrote their memoirs. These circulated all around the Med until one of the leaders of the by now established religion of St Paul decided that everything that did not conform to Saulus’s bull must be destroyed. That man was the Bishop Iraneus of Lyon, circa 150 AD.

        In the 4 Gospels, Jesus’s mother is only mentioned 2 times. Once when she told him to stop His nonsense and return to help His dad in the carpenter’s workshop and after He had been killed. For the first 300 years of Christianity there was no concept of the Virgin Mary. This was imposed by Emperor Constantine to make Jesus a ‘god’ when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire. The other notable fact is that all the blame for the cruxifiction was laid upon the Jews ; not the Romans. The Bible is mostly a work of fiction. The only miracle of it is that some purity and clarity remained after all that censorship and rewrites.

        Yours ONH

      • @elenits. I too though St Paul was the main champion of the Christian faith. He may have muddied and politicised the simplicity of Jesus’ doctrine (as always, “simple” does not mean “easy”) but I never saw him as an intentional destroyer of the faith.

        But the main point of me posting is that JW’s favourite journalist, Piers Morgan, today proclaims himself a Catholic and compares the current Pontiff unfavourably with the beloved John Paul II, who carried on despite assassination attempts, cancer and God knows what else, and in the end showed us all how to die. The Papacy is, like our King or Queen, not a day job you can resign from.

      • I’m sorry, but I will take the teachings of St. Paul, as expounded by the Catholic Church, not ONH. That is why Jesus instituted his Church, in order to prevent radical protestants from expounding bollocks.

  2. Sorry John, when I first read your article about money laundering and corruption I thought it was going to be about the UK banks. I suggest that they fine the wrongdoers £3.50 (one euro) but certainly no arrests.

    • Robin, don’t even joke about 1 euro being worth £3.50! I’d be destitute should this happen, and it probably will – given that it’s a distinct and deliberate policy objective of the PTB.
      I’m now going to cheer myself up by sitting in glorious sunshine whilst reading about the bitter temperatures in the UK.

  3. Pingback: John Ward – Papal Resignation – Is The Pope Gambling That A Younger Man Can Win Back The Church’s Soul? – Doubts Grow About Motives For ‘Retiring’ As Italian And Greek Sources Offer Further Clues – 24 February 201

    • You may get very good odds today on Cardinal O’Brien’s chances of being elected Pope – unless, of course, his fellow ‘suspect’ cardinals want one of their own in the top job to preserve the status quo.

  4. Shock! Horror! There are paedos, fags and crooks in the Vatican. I would have been disappointed if it were any other way but the grovelling attitude towards the pope in the British media is utterly contemptible.

  5. My understanding was that the Vatican is bankrupt! Lots of churches and priests to pay and maintain and not enough paying customers to achieve that anymore……..remember J P Morgan severed their ties with the Vatican last year!!
    As for Razinger, internet reports alledge he was a member of the Hitler youth and also the man responsible for redeploying Pedo priests to new dioceses once they were outed.
    The man who is being most talked about to fill the popes boots is Cardinal Bertone and by the sounds of him he fits nicely into your second scenario as the “Go between” the baddies and the pontiff.

    Of course any idiot should be able to work out that Money, power, control and sex go together hand in hand but for the last few hundred years we havent had the internet to get behind the scenes and report on it!!

    The original bible you will find in years to come is correct ( we are living in the Revelations phase now with Genisis evolving in the background) but its all to do with interpretation and the holy book has been changed, adapted and misread,misunderstood and misconstrued so much by those seeking to use it as the ultimate leverage tool to gain power and control over the masses.

    The medium is the message as McLuhan declared four decades ago!
    We started with the spoken word moved onto the manuscript, then into the printed book and followed that with the newspaper. Next came radio, early movies, TV B&w and then colour, then arrived the computer and as it got more sophisticated and brought forth the net it signalled the end of the control mechanism of the “controllers”!!

    John has claimed conspiracy is a mugs game but he is being to broad, in amongst disinformation are pure gems of truth and it is these that are surfacing now in so many areas of our lives as we all bare witness to “The thinning of the veil””.

    • Phil A;: another interesting point revealed to me about the Hitler Youth by a late German friend who was there was that it was NOT compulsory to join. His dad had refused to join the Nazi Party and he discouraged his son to join the Hitler Youth. The late Paul, a highly educated and sensitive man with loads of charm wanted to be a part of the fun and games and as a child had wanted to be part of the fun, believing it would be like the boy scouts. He went to one weekend in the forest with the other little Ratzingers, realised his father was correct and never went back.

    • He’s got the evil hypocrite off brilliantly, the production takes a lot of liberties with history but it’s good fun – Love the photography, some shots are Carravagio like & the costume & set design except for some dodgy looking Roman murals is superb.

  6. The Catholic Church has been in slow decline since long before all we Sloggers were born. I should imagine the rot started once the Church lost its appetite for burning heretics.
    The Catholic religion, like every religion, is nothing more than a vehicle for social control. Once that control is loosened, decay follows. Islam seems to have learned that lesson, so it is no surprise that it is still in the ascendancy.
    It is no surprise either that the Catholic Beast is now so weak that it is infested with the same lice and vermin as our governments. Perhaps the MSM is right to pander to the faithful with Vatican spin. The religion is no longer relevant to most folk, yet there’ll always be a small number of adherents (like watchers of BBC Parliament) who will stay loyal to the bitter end.
    What is a surprise, though, is why such a lucid, well thought out and intelligent article should have been written about such an irrelevance.

    • DiP
      As I often say (and write) cynicism is the new naivety: it is exactly what these bastards want – an acceptance of the ludicrous idea that everyone is bad and so what’s to care about?
      The Catholic church and how it behaves is massively important to the tens of millions around the world who worship either it or Islam. I do not accept the idea of a Deity, but it’s not as daft an idea as the Church’s potential death throes being ‘an irrelevance’.

    • It can’t be an ‘irrelevance.’ It must be there to be a counter to Islam. Millions of people believe in this religion,as is their right. Are they an irrelevance too?
      However, I do think that Martin Luther(the German monk) got it right when he denounced the venality of the church.

    • @DiP
      “What is a surprise, though, is why such a lucid, well thought out and intelligent article should have been written about such an irrelevance.”

      Maundering on Papal bull while Moody’s downgrades UK credit?– my thoughts exactly. But he’s in a virtual news blackout. Do I detect conspiracy?

  7. Thank you JW for your sensitive treatment on this matter.

    It starts to appear that Benedict has decided that the moral and worldly crisis in the church can (and should-) no longer be swept under the rug and ‘contained’ by the church. Given that he has judged himself unequal to this fight his resignation may well turn out to be a deliberate act to precipitate the crisis, a throwing down of the gauntlet. His withdrawal into prayer seems to back this up, since prayer is a living force. Thus an active fighting pope backed by the concentrated power of prayer of a resigned pope.

    The church needs a strong utterly determined leader willing to dismantle its ENTIRE worldly structure if need be. What many Catholics don’t know is that this radical possibility (a return to a simple, unworldly mission) has also been in the air since Vatican II.

    Even if the wrong forces win the Papacy now, it could be that the scandals that are coming to light now will lead to the same result.

  8. `sensitive documents stolen by the butler` Embarasing for whom?
    Would a simpler explanation not be that the Pope was compromised by them and had to go?
    Back in the real world Italian elections are center stage with Beppe Grillo about to upset one of the cosy cliques that seem to dominate politics in most countries these days.
    Good luck to him!

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/italys-antipolitician-on-the-verge-of-election-sensation-8508267.html

  9. The election of the new pope is the quickest way,you have to put forward your claim & be put forward,evidence against your claim can be heard,A similar action is already going on in our country,in the hope of outing those who have abused their power
    The force for good is on the march,but it will need the peoples of the world to pick up the torch

  10. Is the clique Opus Dei I wonder? The financial side of things, money laundering etc., is right up their street. Also OD members were implicated in the Dutroux paedo scandal.

  11. A really good piece John. I’m very sorry to say I believe your right in your analysis. I think there’s more behind the allegations against Keith O’Brien as well. A cardinal of the Catholic Church comes out and states its time to consider allowing priests to marry and 4 days later there are allegations, in the papers, that he apparently made passes at various times to four ‘young’ priests. Not in any way, criminal allegations you understand, but sordid enough to undermine the integrity and credibility of the Cardinal. Whose going to pay any attention to his message that it’s time priest were allowed to marry.

  12. The Roman church has been as extreme as Islamic Jihad. Read the history of the Siege of Beziers and the Albigensian crusade.

    And John as you settle down with a croissant, realize that the word is a contraction of ‘crescent’ – the Islamic symbol – a souvenir of the Moors when they held much of the Mediterranean. An aim that the current Muslim Brotherhood would like to repeat forming an extended Caliphate.

    • Ah, but you might find that according to several reports out there on the interwebby the croissant was ordered baked after the defeat of the Ottomans at the gates of Vienna so that Christian victors could celebrate the outcome as they chewed ‘crescents’ with their coffee in the morning.

  13. That’s interesting. I was wondering the other day whether there was something more to this resignation.

    The Vatican is basically a front for the Catholic Church but is a criminal organisation which is not and never has been accountable to anyone. Corruption, murder, sex crimes, mafia activities, refuge and travel agent for WWII war criminals (google the Vatican Ratlines) and instigator of many global conflicts and break up of sovereign states.

    Just as one example, look up Ante Pavelic – a Croatian war criminal (described as worse than Hitler) and see who harboured him and then arranged tickets for a flight to Argentina – and then a cushy job as an advisor to Mr and Mrs Peron.

    A slow decline? No, the Vatican is and always has been a total disgrace.

  14. Benedict was already a sick man when he was elected Pontiff and I remember well the articles detailing his heart problems and questions as to whether he would cope with the punishing schedule required of him.

    In December 2011, Christmas Mass at St Peter’s was brought forward by two hours to 10 pm – a move clearly needed for the Pope’s health.
    http://www.catholic.net/index.php?option=dedestaca&id=4307

    It is entirely conceivable that the Pope feels he is unable to cope with even the lightest schedule of work, let alone having to deal with the tsunami of serious problems that are engulfing the Vatican.

    On the evidence to date, the simple explanation (always favorite) is that the resignation is first and foremost a personal decision based on the Pope’s age and frailty..

      • Given his German heritage would it not have been better for all if he had simply retired to his chambers following evening communion with a bottle of schnapps and a Lugar. He would then have died in office as per the expectation of his post thus avoiding the problem of having two Popes.

  15. I don’t think the Catholic Church is any different to any other religion with the possible exception of not allowing its priests to marry. This was only brought in to avoid any spouse inheritance issues. No they are all corrupt and its all about money,only because of the non marrying clause, the Catholic Church attracts a certain type. My memories are of my now wife’s flat mate or priest shagger as she was known. He would regularly stay over giving instruction. The hypocrisy of religious leaders matches that of political ones. Religion has no place in law or political decision making,nor should it be in schools other than as part of history lessons. As for having two popes ,who cares!

  16. Irrespective of whether you believe in a deity or not, many Catholics believe that Benedict XVI is the successor to Peter. We believe that the Catholic Church was divinely instituted by Our Lord to be the only means of gaining salvation and that there is no salvation outside of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Now Catholics, at least traditional ones where I place myself, believe in the supernatural – in heaven, hell, angels and fallen angels – and that ever since the creation Lucifer has been at war with God (a war he knows that he cannot win because, like the rest of us, he was created by God and given free will) which will continue until the consummation of the world. Jesus said to his Church that he would be with us till the end of time. So there might seem to be some death knells of the Church, which the enemies of the Church – Freemasons, Muslims, Jews, atheists – will no doubt try to bring about and rejoice, but they will be confounded.

    Good Catholics know that we are living through the Great Apostasy as prophesied by Saint Paul – which critically one might say was inaugurated by Vatican II ’62-65 – a council that was neither needed nor desired, but it became the Church’s equivalent of the French Revolution. Pope John XXIII who called the council and in his opening address said that he wanted to throw open the windows to the world, to find that the spirit of the world flew in and the Holy Spirit flew out. The liberals hijacked the Council, expounding teachings that were a complete breach with the Church’s teaching for 2000 years, and creating a Mass in the vernacular which is an abomination in the eyes of our Savior. Benedict XVI, like all his predecessors (JPII, Paul VI and John XXII) is a product of this great revolution. What, maybe in his Germanic stubbornness, he cannot bring himself to realise is that the Church has been in decline since these momentous changes. Declining numbers of priests, nuns and monks. A completely uncatechised faithful. This is truly the Church going through yet another crucifixion.

    But it has all been prophesied and predicted both in the Bible and by the saints throughout history. Those Catholics among your readers will know about the great apparitions at La Salette and Fatima, where Our Lady wept and foretold of what is about to come to pass. She says that if her calls aren’t heeded then whole nations will be annihilated, wars and great misfortune will befall the world – truly apocalyptic language – Rome will be destroyed and a great persecution will be aimed at the Church. The next pope is said to be the pope of the great tribulation. Now tribulation is the word used by Jesus in St. Matthew’s Gospel to describe a time that I believe is about to come to pass, a time, he says, like there has never been since the beginning of the world, nor will be again: it can only point to a war where nuclear bombs will be used. And why will this came to pass; because the world has turned away from God and his divinely instituted Church, but which is going in tandem with the loss of faith currently being experienced by the hierarchy of the church. As the Church goes, so goes the world. And God will allow man to destroy large portions of the world as part of our punishment. But there is even a worse chastisement that he has reserved as His own punishment for mankind: google “The three days of darkness”, where he will destroy 3/4 of the world’s population. Now that is what I call Apocalyptic. Yes we are hurtling towards it.

    So where is the Good News. Well we also know that out of this great maelstrom Jesus will send a truly holy pope, who will restore everything. Catholics know this as the age of Mary, when she said at Fatima that my Immaculate Heart will triumph. Oh and the King of France, a direct descendant of Louis XVI will assume the throne. This time of tribulation will be preceded by a great financial crisis – er hello? – which is even biblical prophecy.

    It is virtually certain that the smiling pope John Paul I was killed by members of the P2 lodge in Rome as he was about to clean out the filth in the Vatican bank. Benedict is confronted by a powerful banking cabal and an equally powerful gay lavender mafia, in the Church. We live in truly evil times and Rome will be destroyed (now in apocalyptic language Rome can also refer to the current American western empire), but as faithful Catholics we hold to the faith, this has to be because Christ said I am with you till the end of the world. He will restore his Church to greater glory than has ever been before, prior to the arrival of the Man of Sin (St. Paul calls him), the Antichrist; and only after then will the great Judgement come.

      • Get out the landing net St Peter, you’ve caught a big one and its looks like it’s swallowed the hook, the line and the sinker.

      • dunno about insight but …. it has long seemed to me that there are people out there who honestly (!) wish to bring about the apocalypse … particularly ” a war where nuclear bombs will be used. ”

        It would suit their interests.

        Hence the Obvious fitting together of a great Jigsaw. Or is it The Grand Chess Board

    • So when will Jesus return? Christians have been telling me for as long as I remember that He will come back. When? I heard lots of promises for the year 2000. Nothing. Oh the calendar is out by 6 years…2006… nothing.

      One thing that I can promise you is that Jesus will NEVER return to this earth.

      • Well ONH if you knew the Gospel you will read that the apostles had asked the same question, and Jesus replied that the time is reserved to the Father, and the Father alone. The Church therefore has never said that She knows when the end of the world will come. But there are events that the early Church Fathers and the saints have revealed that have to be fulfilled before the end will come. Among the last of these is the arrival of the most terrible Antichrist, whom the Jews will worship; the rebuilding of the Temple of Jerusalem, the return of Enoch and Elijah to preach to the world against the Antichrist, the death of Antichrist by Saint Michael and the conversion of the Jews. There is not much revealed for the world after that.

        As regards your promise, I prefer to bow to the teachings of the Church to whom these things have been revealed. But return He will to judge the living and the dead, but to walk on the earth, maybe not.

      • The bizarre thing is if he did return they’d kill him again. Can you imagine how long it would take ,for someone saying he was Jesus Christ,before someone else bumped him off as an imposter.

    • The simple message of Jesus was inclusion (catholicism).
      It seems from your post, that those like myself , who do not accept a single bar of your superstitious beliefs, are excluded from your class of “good” catholics.
      Think about it.

      • Farmer braun

        Either you accept that Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross for our Salvation, become a Catholic and accept the teachings of the Holy Roman Catholic Church with all it’s supernatural reality, or you don’t. If you do, you are Catholic and saved; if not, you are damned for your unbelief. Catholicism does not mean inclusion, it means universal. Jesus message wasn’t let’s all get along together and just love one another, cause that is all that matters. No that is the heresy of Vatican II. He died because he was the Son of God, the fulfillment of the prophets. As He said: I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. His message is stark, uncompromising, and the way to eternal life.

  17. It is true that the way the Catholic Church behaves is important to many people who worship that religon.

    But that begs the question why no one of any importance who belongs to that church has ever demanded that the Vatican gives up its war criminals, sex offenders and thieves and charges them with their crimes. Come to think of it, not many other people with any influence have been brave enough to condemn the Vatican either. I think people have got so used to hearing about scandals, it no longer concerns them and there seems to be an attitude that people in the church should be exempt from normal standards of decency.

    Their cardinals go around visiting ex wartime concentration camps expressing regret about the Jews, Serbs and Gipsys murdered but there is never an apology for these crimes committed by and in the name of the Catholic Church. They then insult the memory of the people their ancestors murdered by claiming that the numbers killed (many were actually killed personally by priests and nuns) are greatly over-estimated.

    Who with any decency or honesty would support a corrupt church which gives comfort and support to murderers, thieves and sex offenders?

    • Well Loveratt. God didn’t say that His Church on earth would be filled with saints, did he? No, even Saint Peter, to whom the keys of the kingdom were given by Jesus, ran away and denied his God. And yet in one of the most tender parts of the Gospel of John, I think, after the resurrection, Peter couldn’t even face his Lord because of his shame. And yet Jesus said to him: “Peter, do you love me?” Peter: “You know I do Lord.” Jesus:” Then feed my lambs”. Jesus forgave him. What I am saying is that the world and the Church are all sinners. The Church is a haven for sinners, who can only work out their salvation in Holy Mother the Church. Shamefully, the Church is assailed by evil men. God knows all. We will all be judged.
      The Catholic Church is not responsible for the extermination camps in the second world war. These crimes were not committed in the name of the Catholic Church. Pius XII decried both Fascism and Communism. During the war the Vatican passed 5000 Jews through its walls to safety. Examples of people being killed by priests and nuns? Maybe, but far more Catholic priests were killed in the concentration camps. Saint Maximillian Kolbe for one. The Church didn’t start the war, it was fascist Freemasons.

      People, with honesty, courage and love are members of the Church, because it is the only means to salvation, and was instituted by our Lord. Period. The Church has been attacked, persecuted and ridiculed from its very inception by Christ, and the devil and his minions have sought to destroy Her, because he knows that She is divinely instituted. Stalin said,, how many divisions does the pope have? And where is communism now? The Church survives because she is guided by the Holy Spirit. Looking at Her, as I think Waugh said, it could only be by the Holy Spirit because, if She wasn’t, she wouldn’t possibly have lasted this long.

      But Loveratt, do decent men support corrupt politicians? What Christ has bestowed on the Church – sacraments, the Mass, her teachings – are indefectable; only man is.

  18. Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!” He said, “Nobody loves me.” I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”.
    He said, “Yes.” I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?” He said, “A Christian.” I said, “Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me, too! What franchise?” He said, “Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?” He said, “Northern Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”
    He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.” I said, “Me, too!”
    Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.” I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.

    • Ah, an excellent satire on the inherent bigotry within the Christian faith, kfc1401, not that Islam is any different. I have sent it to my email list, although I will have to redirect my inbox to junk mail for a few days.

      Even the most cursory evaluation of religion makes it clear that God was created in Man’s image and that holds true from the earliest history. I truly cannot understand the need or desire for it. Being raised Catholic myself probably helped shove the scales from my eyes, at around age 14, although I suspect (actually know, much to my irritation) it has left me with quite a bit of subconscious moral prejudice I have to forcefully subdue on occasion.

  19. If the Popes actions are meant to assist in the cleaning up of the Vatican, then all I can say is that I wish, him or them the best of luck. Simply because it would be good to be able to point to at least one institution that does not stink to high hell of it’s own corruption.

    I am agnostic, but I know some very decent Catholics, & they deserve better, as do sh*t on electorates, those financially raped by corporations & those physically raped by predators who hide in the dark shadows of corrupted organisations.

  20. Catholic and Proud of it.

    True enough – not all churches are not full of saints. But the Vatican is probably unique in their policy of proclaiming several proven war criminals of the Second World War as saints.

    Anyway – this gives a very basic summary of what happened which is widely accepted. Also read about ‘Hitlers Pope’ – Pope Pius.XII.

    No surprise that one of the first states which recognised Croatia when it became independent again in the early 1990s was the Vatican (then followed by the inevitable ethnic cleansing and killing campaigns)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_clergy_involvement_with_the_Usta%C5%A1e

    “Pope Pius XII protected Ante Pavelić after World War II, gave him “refuge in the Vatican properties in Rome”, and assisted in his flight to South America; Pavelić and Pius XII shared the goal of a Catholic state in the Balkans and were unified in their opposition to the rising Communist state under Tito.[27] Pius XII also believed that Pavelić and other war criminals could not get a fair trial in Yugoslavia.[28] After arriving in Rome in 1946, Pavelić used the Vatican “ratline” to reach Argentina in 1948, along with other Ustaša,[27] Russian, Yugoslav, Italian, and American spies and agents all tried to apprehend Pavelić in Rome but the Vatican refused all cooperation and vigorously defended its extraterritorial status.[3] Pavelić was never captured or tried for his crimes”.

    • Loverat

      Which world War II criminals did the Church create as saints, please. As the Church is the only institution that can create saints it is unique in that it is reserved to itself, not to anyone else. So you have read a book ” Hitler’s Pope” and you believe it as gospel, as truth! Golda Meir and the Chief Rabbi of Rome didn’t see him as Hitler’s Pope. They acknowledged the great sacrifice that he and the Vatican made in saving 5000 Jews during the war. I cannot comment on the comment you list from Wikipedia as I don’t know much about it. But there are always different sides to the story, and any Tom, Dick and Jose can write whatever they like in there. And if Catholic clergy were involved in shady business, I refer you to my previous comment.
      Throw as much mud as you like, maybe some of it will stick, but it is still the one and only Church that Jesus founded. And, no matter what evils abound in Her, He will be the Church’s head till the consummation of the world. The Church throughout her history has always been in need of purification; no doubt it will happen again, and the filth will be washed away. We are in the midst of a mighty war of good and evil, the Church included.

      • Agree with your “dont believe everything your read/hear” comment however shouldn’t you also heed your own advise.

        You say that The Roman Catholic church is the church that Jesus Christ founded… What proof do you have?

        You dont have proof as no person has any proof on such matters. The Orthodox Christian Church which Roman Catholics call schismatics also believes that it was founded by Jesus Christ and that you “Roman Catholics” are the schismatics.

        Maybe you catholics are wrong? Maybe you are right. However to state that only Roman Catholics following the latin rights are going to be saved is lunacy.

        And IMO when you state such claims it just re-inforces the point that the Roman Catholic Church does not understand who Jesus Christ was.

        Can I ask. Why is it always a Jew that is involved? From Moses, to Jesus Christ, to Muhammad (descended from Abraham from my understanding when he married an Arab lady from Egypt as Sarah could not conceive…)?

      • James E

        Well it is in the Gospels that the keys to the kingdom were given to Peter. Upon this rock I will build my Chucrch. I am with you till the end of time. From Peter we get to Benedict XVI. The outpouring of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost. No other church claims success or pedigree like that. We can trace it, nobody else can. The orthodox were from the same trunk until the schism. The proof is that the Holy Roman Catholic Church has remained one, despite all that is thrown at it, despite all that has been thrown at it. The proof is in the various apparitions of Our Lady, including the miracle of the sun which occurred at that Fatima and was seen by 70,000, believers and atheists, and written about in newspapers. It is not lunacy to claim that you can only be saved in the Catholic Church as it is what she has always preached. It is de fide. There are occasions of being saved in cases of ignorance. But if you actively deny the truths of God and His Church and don’t repent prior to death, then you don’t get to heaven. So you are acting Pope now and telling us that the Catholic Church doesn’t understand Jesus. Can’t you see the folly of what have just written? Don’t you see that Christ would envisage exactly what you have said and all the Protestant organisations with you and so, for that reason, He instituted one Church which would be invested with the Holy Ghost which cannot pronounce error in Her teaching.

        Surely you know why it is always Jews that are involved??

  21. In regard to “Catholic & Proud of it’s” postings above re WWII, would it be unkind to add that the Vatican’s role in the “Ratlines” also saw tens of thousands of Nazis – mostly SS – including Death Camp commandants Franz Stangl of Treblinka, Gustav Wagner of Sobibor, Alois Brunner of Drancy, plus the “Angel-of-Death”, SS Josef Mengele of Auschwitz, but not forgetting the “Architecht of the Final Solution” Adolf Eichmann – plus hundreds more besides, all aided to freedom in Latin America by Bishop Hudal and others using Rat runs set up by him on behalf of the Vatican.

    Personally, I wouldn’t be too quick to deny – or try to justify – the Vatican’s heinous history.

    I could go into great detail about their non-stop activities since WWII, in all sorts of financial fraud…. Monsignor Paul Marcinkus and the Instituto per
    le Opera di Religione, being a prime (but by no means lone) example.

    Call me silly, but spirituality and political statehood just don’t mix. Choose one or the other and stick with that.

    • So OK Dav Guy. So who are you going to go with, where is your repository of Truth? The fact that SS Nazis got to South America was all the work of one bishop and the Catholic Church, purleaze. That is on the par with “I read it in a book, so it must be true!” Why can’t you get away from expecting the Vatican to be whiter than white. I would say that the world has a far more heinous history than the Vatican.

      If you read my first comment you will have noticed that I mentioned the death of JP I. It is directly linked to Bishop Paul Marcinkus. JP I was going to fire him! See there are good men among the hierarchy who see the rot but are thwarted by evil.

      No, spiritual and political statehood can mix only when the state acknowledges the social kingship of Christ the King. There are examples where it has worked. In this day and age the world is governed by satanic Freemasons who deny Christ, who for centuries have sought to dethrone Christ from every aspect of life throughout the world, and they have nearly accomplished all, but in the process they are bringing about the mother of all chastisements on us all. But just as the Devil thought that he had triumphed by the scandal of nailing Jesus to the cross, so he will learn that he has failed again.
      Unlike some, I cannot accept any other authority than Christ and His Church.

      • That is on the par with “I read it in a book, so it must be true!”

        Oh the irony!
        The Bible is a book which you believe, I assume, as all fundamentalist Christians do, that it is the Holy and Undisputable Word of God.

        In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God and without the Word nothing was created that was created.

        Or as you believe… In the beginning was the Bible and the Bible was with God and the Bible was God and without the Bible nothing was created that was created.

        Jesus was the Bible made flesh? The Bible created this Universe and life?

      • Reply ONH

        Oh purleaze! Yes the Church has always taught that the Bible is the unerring word of God, and your choice of language is really revealing. Let’s label everyone as “fundamentalist” and throw them in with the Muslims, because if anyone should believe in the bible as revealed truth then they must be unhinged. Up until maybe 150 years ago that is what 99% of Christians did believe. Your puerile reasoning leaves alot to be desired. Let us go with the Prologue to St. John. When he wrote those words there was no bible; that didn’t happen till 250 years later. No the Evangelists wrote down the Gospels because they really did happen, the Son of God became man and dwelt amongst us. They inherently believed in the scriptures and that Christ was the fulfillment of those scriptures. Because the Bible is the human recording of the revelations of God in this world. It was the Holy Ghost which inspired St. Jerome to collate the first Bible.

  22. Perhaps the butler wasn’t blackmailing at all, perhaps his concience just awoke, perhaps he just realised what a wicked crock of filth he was serving wine tob and decided to do something about it?

    It seems to me that God has heard the pitious cries of the people the wicked crock of filth known as the Vatican has persecuted for so very long, and decided to do something to stop the relentless cruel persecutions.

      • Reply Zoompad

        Yes the Jesuits, sadly, have been infected by the Spirit of Vatican II. A once great order reduced to virtual extinction, because they have turned their backs on the Lord. This is a sorry state of all the great orders – Jesuits, Franciscans, Carmelites, Benedictines – but there is a place where Catholicism is thriving; that is in those fraternities/orders that ignore the teachings of Vatican II and retain the ancient Latin Mass: the Society of St Pius X, the Society of St. Peter. Their seminaries are full. Proof that the proofs of Vatican II were rancid

      • The Babelfish…after which God promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
        PS this site is about the deconstruction of bollocks and I hope our Catholic friend will remember that. There are plenty of preaching blogs to go and play (or pray) on…

      • No, oh religious one, this site is not about attacking religion or deconstructing it: there are plenty of sites already doing that. But if you wish to make sermon here then please don’t expect your “congregation” to either appreciate it or pass critique.

      • What evidence do you have that it has not occured. Now unless alot of people are lying and its one big conspiracy then all the abuse that is being reported is just MSM hogwash by TPTB…

  23. According to St. Malachy (whose prophecies may or may not be by him, or even written in his lifetime), the following papacy sees Rome (the Church) brought to its knees. If the details of this business were to be made public during the next papacy, I would consider this prophecy fulfilled. The timing is also interesting – the next pope would be elected just in time for Holy Week. Has anyone else noticed that the head of the Vatican bank also stepped down at the same time?

    • Yes it is a time of great intrigue, and Rome will be destroyed. It has all been foretold by both St, Malachy and Our Lady of La Salette. But the Church will continue. Deo Gratias!

  24. What a highly entertaining thread this has been LOL …………so heres some more…………………………The second coming has been and gone!!
    You didnt think it would be another geezer in a white robe with a beard did you?? It came in the form of non physical (electricity) and channelled through a very unique human and knew everything about everything that had happened to everyone and anything that has ever existed on this planet, past, present and future in human understanding………………….it told us there is no such thing as time!! Time is a human invention for convenience sake…………………..we exist in one big NOW !

    Catholic and proud might be interested to know that this entity foretold there have been three Jesus christs, the one you follow is number three and famously said “Everything I can do, so can you and more” after he had fed the 5000……………How?? The answer lies within ascension……….I will say no more.

    Is the all knowing entity the anti christ? To brainwashed believers of mans interpretation of various gods the answer would be, yes! To us believers in the entity and its incredible accuracy of all matters large or tiny the answer is, no it isnt, but it brought forward the answer to mans future and TPTB and the Vatican are well aware of this.

    You are either on the right path or you arent, faith doesnt come into it but a little knowledge of it helps.

  25. So, ‘Catholic and proud of it’, you ask that someone (Loverat) has read a book [Hitler's Pope] and believes it as gospel, as truth……well, touche, with your bible !

    You claimed in an earlier comment that (Jesus) Christ said ‘i will be with you until the end to the age’….really ??!….you must’ve been there when he said it, obviously ?

    Typical (Roman) catholic responses there…..rather like RatFink’s ‘Dominus Jesu’ document (Sept 2000).

    Are you into football by any chance ?….n’ support a team located in the West of Scotland ??

    JS

    • And yet the Catholic faith has civilized the world, through the Holy Roman Catholic Mass. After the downfall of the Roman empire, the Christian faith grew and spread, drawing the world to Christ, literally civilizing the world; giving her law, education and caring for the sick. No, I wasn’t there to hear the words of Christ, but like millions and millions of people who weren’t we believe, and His words have been passed down, believed and accepted because they are the Way, the Truth and the Life, guided by the Holy Ghost, unlike any other historical figure that has lived. As I said earlier, Christ must be with His Church, because it wouldn’t last long without Him.

      Your last comment is beneath contempt!

      • Jeez-O !….some people can get very touchy when their faith is questioned.

        So your belief in the Christ is exactly that……that is, that which is written about him in a book……sorry, a much adulterated book. Your witness to him is basically what loads of others do – blindly following. Well, good luck with that one !

        I knew my last comment/question would get under your skin…..as you seem to follow the holier-than-thou tradition of both Ratfink and club.

        Good luck with the rapture…..i dare say you’ll need it, unless you come to your senses by then !!

        JS

      • Joe Soap

        WTF. How much of an adulterated Book is it? Do enlighten us with your erudition. You make statements with no evidence. No my witness to Him is like He is here now. I believe with my whole heart, mind and soul. Good luck with the rapture. You stupid, silly man. Why don’t you do a little bit of research and find out who peddles that form of tripe! You are the embodiment of a little bit of knowledge doth make me an ignoramus. Come to this thread with a modicum of learning about the subject. Lord have mercy!

  26. What a fascinating time to be alive.
    At least, unlike most presidential/general elections we shall know the
    outcome in a few weeks!
    In saecula saeculorum…

  27. If these Popes are so righteous then why pray tell do they fraternize with the likes of Bush Blair and other mass murdering leaders of the west? WTF.

    • Because even Jesus was brought before Caiaphas, Pilate and Herod. We have to be in this world but not tainted by it.

      • …ah, remind me where the Romans were at the time of the death of Christ and convince me that it is not the Roman version of the Bible to which you refer. All religions, like politics, are simply a method of controlling and subjugating the sheeple: AKA BOLLOCKS and this site is about DECONSTRUCTING BOLLOCKS so please take your sermons elsewhere or face them being, obviously, deconstructed.

      • Reply wearedoomed

        It was the Roman procurator, Pilate, who condemned Him to death, and Roman centurions who enforced it. The Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church, guided by the Holy Ghost, then Luther and his ilk came along and reworked it according to their rebellious views. There was no Bible until St Jerome produced it in the Vulgate. So the devil hates the “control” that the Church has/had over souls, and gave us protestantism, enlightenment, socialism and communism to wrest that control. He wants to lead souls to hell, the church to heaven. It all come down to good and evil.

  28. There’s also this angle supported by many: if all truth comes out and vatican/roman catholic church goes down in rubble, this will leave a vast gap to be filled by islam (especially in Europe and Africa). So the (presently) non-violent catholic structure must be retained (and reenforced?) as a barrier to islam.
    I certainly can understand this. but don’t ask me to like it…It’s a tough question if you have to choose between an open mind and an open throat.

  29. Gotta love The Catholics! ‘
    its the Jews,Muslims,Atheists, gays fault!
    That’s the reason the Church is in decline, nothing at all to do with the corruption, politics, genociide, money laundering etc etc catching up on it

    There was a really interesting interview today on LBC with Sir David Atenborough. Towards the end he was asked about his writings on the theory of Evolution, as opposed to the Belief of creationists that God created the univers,earth, and all living things on it. His Answer was (not verbatim)
    “Picture a young African child, sitting on the side of a river, he gets infected with a worm. Who’s only purpose is to enter the childs eye and lay eggs. The worm won’t survive if it doesn’t do this. The child will go blind within 5months.
    What kind of loving god would creat that?
    But of course ‘blind faith’ is what keeps these institutions going, so I’m sure Catholic and proud, will have an answer.
    The church, like the monetary system it support is going to come crashing down, hopefully then we will have a planet without religion!

    • Gimme a break!

      It is only 1850 years that man believed that God created the universe, then some pillock called Darwin comes along with his Theory of Evolution, and everyone bows down to such wisdom. A theory that is an insult to our intelligence, yet because of man’s pride, like that of Adam and before him Lucifer, who wants to be God, he will take the first theory that comes along, and deny his creator. We are the creature; God is the Creator. God has revealed how He created the world in His holy book, the Bible. So we turn to Sir David Attenborough, that High Priest of Scientism, the religion of Satan, to hear what he has to say on the matter; who parrots the party line of evolution, heliocentrism, population control. The man is receiving his glory hear on earth; let him answer his opinions to the Author of Life when he dies.
      God so loved the world that He sent His only Son to undergo the most agonising death imaginable. Ponder on that for awhile! Ponder the Fall of man by the sin of Adam and Eve; ponder how original sin entered the world – come on Sir David A, step outside your hallowed world of pride and hubris and consider the fundamentals. Yes I will pray for him tonight.

      Your first comment. No it is the fault of the Church to doubt Her faith, that the enemies are now within the fold; that is what Benedict finds truly frightening. We Catholics are the authors of our own misfortune to come.

      • …sorry, posted too soon: that was on a scale of 1 to 10 for madness where 10=sheer lunatic

        Please explain the fossil record, oh religious one.

      • There is nothing in the fossil record that provides the proof of the link between the species. Even the Natural History Museum says that. The dating is faulty. Why is it that soft tissue and blood capillaries has been discovered in dinosaur bones, but scientism wont accept the obvious conclusion that it can date no more than 10000 years at best. Are you telling me that this wonderful beautiful and complex world is all down to random atoms and molecules coming together. Don’t insult my intelligence. Why cannot man accept that it is by a benign and loving Creator? Because then you will have to bow down to the veracity of holy scripture and the supremacy of the Catholic Church. Scientism chooses to sup with the devil.

  30. “There’s also this angle supported by many: if all truth comes out and vatican/roman catholic church goes down in rubble, this will leave a vast gap to be filled by islam (especially in Europe and Africa)”

    So, the Catholics are the defenders of Christianity and freedom in Europe and Africa?.

    Funnily enough some people in Serbia claim that they are the last ‘barrier’ to Islam in Europe and their fight to retain Kosovo. Centuries past there has been some truth in that as the Turks never managed to expand beyond and into Central Europe

    But nowadays it is not Islam in that region which needs controlling. It is murder and trafficking in human organs, exported organised crime and corruption at the highest level. Perhaps what is more likely is those that express the above view are more concerned that one crime syndicate run by a bunch of priests will collapse and be replaced by mafia bosses posing as government ministers.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/14/kosovo-prime-minister-llike-mafia-boss

  31. “Either you accept that Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross for our Salvation, become a Catholic and accept the teachings of the Holy Roman Catholic Church with all it’s supernatural reality, or you don’t. If you do, you are Catholic and saved; if not, you are damned for your unbelief.”

    Sorry but I do not accept your judgement on me. I, as a baptised and confirmed Catholic, perceive your arrogance to be un -Christian, but it’s for you to judge if you feel inclined.

  32. It is not my judgement on you, but that of the Church, That which she has always proclaimed. Come back to Tradition, the Latin Mass, and all will become clear.

    • Hmmm,
      I suppose the earth is still flat then. And good old Cardinal Nueman was right to burn people because they had the temerity to print the bible in English?

  33. Oh and proud Catholic: it’s people like you (not like me the atheist) that will bring it all down to pieces. Cos people are getting fed up with your stupid and evil ways. I bet some hundred years ago you would have me roasted ah?

    • I beg your pardon it was stupid and evil atheists who killed more people in the last century than the world has ever seen. No, we pray for atheists and poor sinners. Roasted? what for being Greek? Nah! If by being proud I stand by objectively revealed divine truth, as revealed by the Son of God, then count me proud. I cannot abide the world of secular relativism, where everything is brought down to the lowest common evil denominator.

      • GOD HATES A “PROUD” SPIRIT. Proverbs 6
        These six things the Lord hates, indeed, seven are an abomination to Him:

        A proud look [the spirit that makes one overestimate himself and underestimate others], a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

        A heart that manufactures wicked thoughts and plans, feet that are swift in running to evil,

        A false witness who breathes out lies [even under oath], and he who sows discord among his brethren.

        Psalm 10 The wicked one in the pride of his countenance will not seek, inquire for, and yearn for God; all his thoughts are that there is no God [so He never punishes].

        You see, just because you call yourself Catholic and stick to your Latin Rights does not mean you will be saved…

        As we that are not part of the Roman Catholic Church have been deceived (by who someone that claims nobility over me)… maybe the folks within the Roman Catholic church have been deceived by the same nobility that claims to know and dictate truth when in fact its lies.

      • James E

        You see that is the preserve of protestants, to pick and chose any random set of quotes to support a position. Jesus created one church, one vicar, one priesthood. Then Luther came along and broke all that up. He said I am going to be pope, I will rebel – does that remind you of anyone, James? – and what became of that Protestant rebellion? Tens of thousands of different churches, all proclaiming that they have the key to salvation. The Catholic Church has survived, and will continue to survive, warts and all, because She holds the charism of teaching and proclaiming the faith, She is protected by the Holy Ghost. When you hold and proclaim the truth, it aint pride noor arrogance. It is splendour, and we have a body of saints and martyrs who died upholding the faith. We are a teaching Church, we don’t dialogue with the devil. This She has done for 1950 years until Vatican II when the liberals insisted we dialogue with the world. Now look at the state of Her, and weep! You don’t dialogue with the devil, that was Eve’s mistake!

        I don’t follow your last paragraph. We are the One True Church. Come back!

      • @Catholic; You need to read up on the use of “Holy Ghost” as this is not Christian… its has always been Holy Spirit…

        What I mean in my last paragraph is what if so much has been changed in texts that maybe further investigation is in order by all and to not just blindly follow…

        Your response about my quotes is case in point. If i was a leader of a sect then my comments would become doctrine hence it is very hard for anyone to claim to be 100% or have proof.

        Ekklesia (Church) means all people, not a building, idols, nobles, one specific doctrine… Have you read the early texts in Greek? How did cultural differences influence the different versions of the bible. The latin was Roman based was it not? So the translation was heavily influenced by Roman tradition.

        Why does the Vatican not open up and allow not only the selected few but anyone to read texts? Could there be some information that is being withheld?

        My comments are not an attack on Roman Catholics, rather the lack of critical thinking that people of today do not do, or have forgotten to do.

        Your comments on evolution i agree with though as my question to evolutionists has always been; if we came from monkeys why are their still monkeys? Hence according to scientific facts evolutionists havent got a leg to stand on as their theory of evolution should mean that monkeys no longer exist and they are now humans? Right?

      • James E

        You see it all comes down to faith. I believe in the creed, I believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God, I accept the 2000 years of dogma and teaching because, if I didn’t, there would be anarchy, and error, as there is in the Protestant sects. No.

        I think in the Douay Rheims (sp?) Bible He is called the Holy Ghost, although I could stand corrected. At least throughout history the third person of the Trinity has been referred to that way. But I can equally accept Holy Spirit.

        I believe and accept that God created the world in 6 days, that the world is at the centre of the universe, unmoving, and that the planets and the universe revolve around it. Read ‘Galileo was wrong the church was right.’
        Google it. There is a book and a film is about to be launched. It is fascinating. Now this seeks to prove the Genesis account of creation. God created man, and woman, who lived in paradise. There was the fall. If there was no fall, there would be no requirement for Jesus and redemption. Evolution is illogical, an insult to our intelligence.

    • Said the Bishop of Narbonne. Coincidentally, it was the nobles of Northern France who achieved the annexing of the south through the crusade.

  34. CAPOI

    I really envy you your certainty, life must be very simple for you. Your absolute conviction that you are totally right & those who do not share your dogma are totally wrong & will therefore forever roast in hell, it must be very comforting imagining what those fools will suffer.

    Then there’s me – I do not want to believe in your God, firstly because he is a pain in the ass, hiding in a closet expecting to be believed in while plotting revenge on those who prefer not to join his particular club, a variation of about 20.000 other similar clubs.

    If he had stomped around a bit during the last couple of millennia we would all be in his club. Why create the confusion ?, if the headmaster was in the classroom we would all behave, isn’t that what he wants ? He creates us as a faulty product, leaves us to our own vices, & then wants to torture us forever because we screw up & If he is all seeing & all powerful, why didn’t he stop that naughty talking snake ?

    I have no urge to kiss his imaginary ass just because of his threats & as far as heaven goes I do not think I am wired for an eternity of ecstasy as I occasionally get about 30 seconds of that, which is about all I can cope with at any one time. If heaven was of a spiritual nature my soul would have to be kind of brainwashed to cope with an eternity of hanging around with the likes of you.

    As you can plainly see I fail the test, alongside millions of others who unlike many of your label are decent human beings. You can now bathe in your all knowingness & using my gravatar if you like, in order to imagine me enduring forever torture from God’s choice sub-contractor.

    I suggest you have created God after your own image & personally I do not want to know either of you. If there is indeed a God I would hope he would be more understanding given the circumstances, like his son perhaps. It would be nice to see some real justice, but I reject a God who would perhaps forgive a Catholic child rapist or throw us both to the same wolf for the same treatment, as if all crimes were equal.

    I will take my chances in the uncertainty of the mystery.

    • You see the loving God allows you to dis him all the time and still holds his arms open for you to return to Him to be saved – as he did to the Good Thief on the cross – He is willing to forgive you for your pride and sins, as He equally does to me. We have just this life to gain His mercy, after that you get His terrible judgement. But know that man is made up of both body and soul; the latter is eternal and was created by God to be with Him in His glory: or you make your choice and you go to Lucifer who resides in hell. It is Lucifer who is doing his darndest to take you there. It’s come on down and make your mind up time.

      • Capoi, your heart is in the right place, which is far more important, however, your egoic mind is corrupted with misinformation. First of all, God would never submit anyone to terrible juggement. God is pure Love. A spark of which He has planted in every Soul in this immense Universe. We are all Godsparks. We are all One with God. Second of all, there is no such place as Hell. A fictitious place, created by the Dark, who rewrote the original Bible, to suit their evil purposes. Fear and control. The Pope was forced to resign, by the Galactic Federation, who come in the name of God, and cannot tell a lie. The Galactic Federation represents a multitude of wonderfull civilisations, all created by God. There are many websites. The Truth is out there for you, and your family, and your friends. Thegoldenageofgaia is but one website. Seek and ye shall find. God bless you.

      • Bigbwana

        Now then you certainly have swallowed the cool aid that Lucifer and his minions have been serving you. Have you read the Gospels? Have you even read the teachings of the Catholic Church? Believe what you will, God gave you that, but do not utter such baseless unsubstantiated twaddle as there is no Judgement, no hell (Jesus spoke about it 35 times in the Gospels) Jesus is the one who truly defined what hell is and who goes there. You know you should write down your thesis and put in the form of sci-fi – I am sure that some Hollywood studio would be only too interested to make a movie about it. Have you done a lot of drugs? I thought that your galactic federation was going to reveal itself and take over on the 21st December last, as I recall. I am surprised you have the courage to put your head above the parapet. Do you know what, I don’t recall His Holiness telling the world that he had to resign cause the Galactic Federation said so. Jesus said, I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, I don’t recall he slipped in a bit about the galactic federation being it too, maybe St. Hohn had a cold that day and stayed in bed. Streuth Mother of God preserve us.

      • Capoi, why would Jesus talk about Hell 35 times? To put the fear into people? God is not about fear, God is about Love. Ergo: the Bible was rewritten and the Dark put those words into the mouth of Jesus. The Vatican is by far the richest organisation on our planet. 60 billion in masterpieces, alone. Meanwhile, the pope and the cardinal enjoy fine dining, every evening, prepared by the finest chefs. Here comes the sommellier with a lovely choice of vintage wines. Meanwhile, their flock starve to death. Not anymore. The evil Satanists occupying the Vatican will all be removed. Thanks be to God.

      • Bigbwana. I am sorry, believe what you want to believe. I believe in the Catholic faith, wherein there lies my salvation, and yours. What you display is incalculable arrogance and pride. The fall of Adam and Man. Unless you turn to Jesus Christ, bow down to him in all humility and accept him as Messiah and Saviour, you cannot be saved. Everything else is from the Devil.

  35. Crumbs, nearly missed this one. For my money, I know that my redeemer liveth etc, Peter C’s observation that God was created in Man’s image encapsulates what is so problematic about belief in a personal god to all who would be free. Humility – what remains when all the bollocks has been deconstructed – and vanity are poor bedfellows. If we believe in a higher power with which we can become one, we must surely be prepared to accept that humanity, our species, could only be a small part of that transcendent reality. Never having been tempted to visit some gadgy in a curtained sentry box, I find it easier, and actually more valid, to make my confession here.

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  37. CAPOI said “And yet the Catholic faith has civilized the world…”

    Blimey! Quite how that sentence extruded from your pen without a bolt of lightening striking you down, leaves me bewildered.

    Stepping lightly so as not to appear to be stealing Monty Python lines, the words “Spanish Inquisition” (but more accurately the “Medieval Inquisition”, I suppose) spring to my rebutting mind. But there are so many examples to prove the opposite aren’t there. Unless, of course, hundreds of years of torture, murder and suppression of free thought are considered to be the standards of behaviour you mean by the word “civilised”?

    But it is not hard to see that you’re so fully locked in religious blindness that any objectivity you may have once had, has had to be evicted to make room for it.

    It’s pointless arguing with such rigid myopia, so I shan’t bother doing so again.

  38. This thread reminds me of an entirely tasteless joke:

    An Irish boy stands crying at the side of the road. A man asks him “What’s wrong?” The boy says “Me ma is dead”. The man says “Do you want me to call Father O’ Riley for you ?” The boy replies “No tanks mister, sex is the last ting on my mind at the moment.”

    • The Church of Dead Bones and Paedospies has hurt too many people for me to want to laugh at them, I wish God would hurry up and smite them, sick of their bullying now.

      • Well Zooms. No we are the church of saints and sinners, if you want respectability and nice, go to the CoE. The Catholic Church is at the point of undergoing a purification as has happened throughout history. Am I happy at the state of my Church, no I weep for Her. I cry beseeching God to come to her aid. She is our sick mother who we love even more in her distraught state. Be careful what you wish. Do not judge the Church by her sins but by the head: Jesus Christ, who instituted our holy mother Church. Look at her saints, see Her glory. Remember Saint Paul said, when I am week I am strong. This awful time we are in is the prelude to the Church’s even greater glory. Amen I say to that!

    • What a joke! “if you want respectability and nice, go to the CoE” Oh yeah, like I did at St Mary’s in Market Drayton, only to find that the scowling frowning vicar there, Rev Michael Hayes, was in fact a Jesuit priest educated at Maynooth!
      Hayes frowns and scowls were all reserved for me, because I had the audicity to ask Jesus Christ to help the Pindown and Secret Family Court victims and whistleblowers in his precious church, and Hayes wanted me to STFU about Pindown and Secret Family Courts.
      So basically, Market Drayton had TWO Catholic churches, and in both of them Pindown child abuse victims were treated as scum of the earth – the official Catholic Church over the road from St Mary’s set the police on me one day because I wept and prayed on the steps of the closed church, begging Jesus Christ to help us Pindown and Secret Family Court victims – so the man who lived in the house attached to the church called the police – he didnt bother coming over to me to find out why I was weeping and praying, he just called the police instead.
      What a joke you and your horrid Church of Dead Bones are!
      I don’t want “respectability” if I end up like you, by the way I call myself ZOOMPAD or BARBARA RICHARDS, not “ZOOMS”, or “BABS”, I find your name shortening insulting.

      • Well Zooms. First I said that the CoE is respectability not the Catholic Church. Now you know in the reaction that you received from both prelates how Jesus felt when he was rejected by the High Priests and pharisees, his “church”. Now you know what suffering is. That is the great mystery of the Cross. Now you can begin to understand what Jesus went through, just a little bit. Suffering is at the heart of the cross.
        The truly Christian act would be to pray, pray, pray, and offer up your suffering to Christ. This is one of the greatest acts of love: is to pray and forgive those who have attacked you. That is the great message of Christ who died on the cross for us poor reprobates.

        I don’t defend their actions. But there is one who you can turn to, and there is the Mother of God. She is the greatest creature that God created. She will help you.

  39. I think Billy Meier had it right, when he said that Catholicism and Christianity would shrink to a shadow of it’s former self and become irrelevant.

    The basic BS story is that we all succumb to sin and that is why we must forgive the Vatican for laundering the money of criminals and supporting pedophiles. I hold no grudges against any church but cannot believe they represent the Supreme Being on Earth. Religion is a creation of powerful beings, that fundamentally oppose the agenda of God, which is to raise the consciousness of his Creation, forever. The exact opposite agenda is found disseminated through the churches of Earth.

    Religion is an evil creation of those that would bind us in ignorance. Knowledge is power and they want us weak and easily controlled.

    • I made my apology after I had posted again. I am humbly sorry, and I will do so in confession this Saturday. I never wished to cause offence and only used the name as a joke and how sometimes names get shortened on this blog.

  40. I aint praying for any of you lot, stuff it. Your stinking cess pit “church” would turn angels away from God. The only prayer I can think of for mocking arrogant stinks like you is that I hope you repent in time before Judgement Day!

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