Lines on the morality of killing psychopaths

There is a saying in advertising that aperture and environment are everything. It means, basically, that where and when your ad appears can make or break its effectiveness. I have always believed in this – and when those factors are wrong, advertising can look spectacularly inept. This is an excellent thing, as it warns the public of what goggle-eyed sociopaths may well be behind the ads.

A good example occurred this morning in the early hours, as I was reading a piece about Greek death threats against Yannis Stournaras. This is how the passage at Reuters read in my browser:

‘The [bullet in the mail + threat]  was sent by a little-known group called “Cretan Revolution”, which warned the minister against any efforts to seize homes and evict homeowners, police sources said. The group sent similar letters to tax offices in Crete last week.

Yannis Stournaras, a respected economist who became finance minister in June, has angered many Greeks by championing austerity policies demanded by the European Union and International Monetary Fund as the price for bailout aid.

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There have been a spate of small attacks in recent weeks in Greece, including makeshift bomb explosions outside the homes of journalists and political figures as well as shots fired at an office used by Prime Minister Antonis Samaras….’

Yes, you too can download a free guide on how to retire when a bunch of political hoodlums take all your money away claiming it’s for your own good. A large number of ads these days are placed online robotically, triggered by words like ‘finance’, ‘austerity’ and so forth. It shows.

Geeks would love to have you believe that communication can be automated, but it’s bollocks. Some Greeks would love to have you believe that austerity will be good for Greece in the long-term, and that’s bollocks too. But what’s going on between Brussels-am-Berlin and Athens at the minute leaves the average Greek citizen helpless. And such brings up the age-old debate about when is a ‘resistance worker’ a terrorist, and when a freedom-fighter.

I have no problem discerning this. If a government persistently ignores the law of the land, subverts the constitution, robs the People, connives with external powers, reduces citizen liberty unreasonably, and infects a supposedly apolitical police force with anti-democratic philosophy, then it is asking for trouble. This is especially so when the citizen is left with no form of redress, the legal system is corrupt, and those in charge are obviously taking it up the backside from crooked financiers and remote political manipulators.

I abhor violence and would never indulge in it unless my way of life was being threatened by a foreign power. The Greeks had the chance to chuck out the cheats at the last election, and they blew it. So for me at the moment, the sporadic bombings and rifle potshots at Greek politicians – while understandable – shouldn’t be condoned. I would however find it difficult to use that argument if new elections there produced an anti-EU government and/or that election was ignored/forbidden by the gargoyles in the EC. Then I would say armed resistance was entirely justified.

This presents us with a further moral dilemma in that, of course, had Wolfgang ‘Strangelove’ Schäuble had his way last Spring, this is exactly what would’ve happened. Further, the year before that Sarkozy and Merkel literally forbade Greece’s elected Prime Minister George Papandreou from holding a referendum on the bailout terms. As a constitutional historian (there being nothing in the Lisbon Treaty about repressing member State elections) I would say the Merkozy action was obviously illegal.

Unfortunately, it gets worse. You see, Draghi’s 2012 subordination of Greek bondholders was also illegal. The haircut he took with our money was illegal. Five times now in four countries, the EU has ignored the popular will against tighter fisco-political european union. The European Commission (EC) clearly runs the EU, but is unelected. There are no signs at all that any of these characters and institutions wish to stop doing what they do, and hand power back to the taxpayers.

The bottom line on this one might thus seem to be that it’s OK to buy a long-range rifle and start picking off everyone from van Rompuy and Rehn to Merkel and Barroso. My view wouldn’t be that one, because the ball is for the time being in the Court of the MEPs, the State Opposition Parties, the media, and the empowered legislatures around the EU to firmly oppose what’s being done in the name of some muddled concept called ‘Europe’. And at the same time, the buck stops at those electorates who seem happy to ignore the blindingly obvious illiberal oligarchy being created all around them.

He’s a tricky cove, your moral philosophy. But while there’s no ‘absolutely’ right or wrong answer here, thankfully there is also human common sense and pragmatic judgement. It may sound odd, but I wind up here: if you think a majority of citizens in private would like to see something or somebody patently and illegally fascist removed – prior to the reinstatement of full liberal democracy – then doing that by the use of extra-Parliamentary force is entirely justified. What fascists of all colours do is smile sweetly as they remove any and all forms of opposition from the People, pacify them with bribes and entertainment – aka, bread and circuses – and then label every violent protester and assassin terrorists. Doing that, like I say, is asking for trouble….although given my own beliefs as already stated, not from me. Hello GCHQ, howeryooderday?

From Dublin to Delfini – and in time from Dakar to Denver – individual citizens will make their minds up in the context of what’s happening in their neck of the woods. The number of Establishment necks that remain unbroken will depend on just how far they push such people.

 

 

84 thoughts on “Lines on the morality of killing psychopaths

  1. ” The Greeks had the chance to chuck out the cheats at the last election, and they blew it.” JW, come on… you know better. I sent you links, and you posted stories that the election in Greece had been rigged with faulty census info to favor the German collaborators as a result the election was declared constitutionally null and void by the Greek Bar Association. Additionally, several cases of ballot tampering have led to prison sentences for the party that “won” the election. Our “will” as a people has already been subverted… either we peacefully adapt as we have, for the most part, done soo far (being, overall civilized, non-violent people), or… if they push us too far and start seizing land… then things will get out of control fast. See enclosed sources…

    DSA : The results of the 17th
    June elections will be cancelled!
    STATEMENT OF THE DSA (BAR ASSOCIATION OF ATHENS) PRESIDENT IOANNIS D.ADAMOPOULOS REGARDING THE NON PUBLICATION OF THE RECORDS OF THELAST ELSTAT (NATIONAL STATISTICS COMITEE) CENSUSIn his announcement, the president of DSA IOANNIS ADAMOPOULOS, refers to“EXTREMELY SERIOUS CONTITUTIONAL FAILURE” CONCERNING “NONPUBLICATION OF THE RECORDS OF THE LAST ELSTAT (NATIONAL STATISTICSCOMITEE) CENSUS”.Particularly, in his announcement, the president of DSA indicates:According to article 54 – paragraph 2 of the Constitution, “the number of parliament members of every constituency is defined with presidential decree,based on the legal population of the constituency that results, according to thelatest census, from the numbers of those registered with the local registrar, asthe law states. The results of the census are considered published based on thedata gathered by the relevant services, one year after the date the censusactually took place”.In this case, the last census was completed by the National Committee of Statistics (ELSTAT) on 24
    th
    May 2011 – a date which is officiall and confirmedbeyond any doubt by a press release of the same authority – therefore, as a yearhas already passed since the last day of the completion of the above mentionedcensus, the results of it are considered to be already published. Therefore thenumber of parliamentary seats of every constituency should be defined based onthe legal population of these constituencies, as derived, according to this census. The release of these results, however, did not take place which has resulted in anextremely serious constitutional failure, since – as far as it can be estimated,substantial changes have occurred in the population distribution in everyconstituency in comparison with the previous census of 2001 and whichrespectively implies changes in the number of parliamentary seats perconstituency – the objections that will certainly rise against the validity of theparliamentary elections of 17
    th
    June, is likely to lead not only to the redistributionof the parliamentary seats in every constituency but also in the redefinition of parliamentary representation of every party, possibly putting at risk even theParliament’s confidence towards the existing Government, and by extension thegoverning stability itself.In view of all the above, DSA (Bar Association of Athens):-Expresses its deep institutional concern regarding the risk of an acuteconstitutional crisis which, apart from the very serious problems that it isexpected to cause to the function of the democratic constitution, it will alsoplace in doubt the international stature of our country

    • Ioannis
      As a psephologist with 40 years behind me, I seriously doubt that an ood census could make enough difference to the overall result. Basically, the cheats were saved by scared, older Greeks. No shame in that, but it is a fact if you look at the demographic breakdown.

      • John… you forget the myriad reports of ballot stuffing, tampering, mysterious accounts of ” ballot shortages”, the election in the rural areas worked very differently than in Athens… whole islands full of votes having been ‘set aside” somewhere (and subsequently re-appearing, only to favor ND… when they had polled Syriza previously, and the several prison sentences that have been handed down since to ND Party officials having been found guilty of ballot tampering. Where I live we were simply told that ther were only ballots for ND, Pasok, and Golden Dawn for example. I do believe in this one instance that you have invested yourself a little too heavily in the main stream Greek news sources very very limited news reporting on this subject… the simple truth was that there was plenty of election irregularities (enough to garner international attention from Russia, China, and others). The world has looked the other way on the elections in Greece because if they didn’t then a realistic implosion of the EU was very possibly the next result… like many times in history when great frauds and evils are committed… it’s not that people don’t know, it is that it benefits them more NOT to know. Respectfully, I am afraid that (in this instance anyway) you need to dig deeper, and maybe in other places than any government sanctioned MSM source in Greece, and you have not taken the many forms that this fraudulent election was subverted into account. Believe me… there is no confusion on the part of the Greek populace that this was yet another subversion of Democracy (like Papademos before)… that is why the recent rise in new anti-govt. militant groups, the growing voter apathy (almost 40 % abstention), and the more resent skipping over of support for Syriza and other ceneter left party’s for even more militant right and far right party’s (Golden Dawn)… people have no lost faith that Syriza can do anything either… they are quickly losing faith in a solution from within the sytem and either outright becoming militants or supporting party’s that call for the destruction of the government and the dissolution of the constitution (GD). It is true that the large pensioners population was terrified by Merkel/Schauble threats fanned by Samaras into supporting the same thieves that caused this problem… but that in, and of itself was simply not enough to win… and the world was not shy about doing what it had to do.

  2. I disagree somewhat with your list of potential targets. The EU only has power over us because of the treachery of our own political class. As Mark Leonard, a Europhile journalist wrote in “How the EU deceives its way to power”. “Like an invisible hand the EU operates through existing political structures. There are no European courts, legislatures or business regulations on display in London. The British House of Commons, British law courts and British civil servants are still there but they uphold and implement European law. By creating common standards that are implemented through national institutions, Europe can envelope countries without becoming a target for hostility”. So I would say “think local” when considering targets – and not to forget the power of social opprobrium. One of the key factors which precipitated the departure of so many expense-fiddling MPs was that they and their wives were suddenly treated in a very different way to the deference which they thought was their due. If this anger and disgust could be properly targeted at the Quislings and collaborators, it would probably be far more effective than live rounds.
    It is some fifteen years since I was last in Crete, a place we loved for family holidays and intend to revisit this year. The EU was not popular then. In the West of the island, road signs were frequently perforated where the local lads had used them for target practice. A lady, who ran a small bus tour company said that, if we wished to bring a present for a Greek friend, 9 mm ammunition was always acceptable. “It’s illegal but everybody has a gun” she said.

  3. Normally, I too am against street protests, particularly when violent. However, I do suspect that a summer of riots and continuing strikes by key workers particularly in Spain and Greece, could actually achieve a tipping point where even the Troika’s and Sprouts will have to conclude that the situation in both countries is totally unsustainable. Sooner or later, Europe North will figure out that rioting and striking workers don’t do much for any Club Med countries GDP, and that they are never going to see a cent of their Bale Out, Banks Investments or ECB Toxic Bonds money ever again.

    Not really O/T, but as JW began with an advertising theme….was anyone else amused by the story of Alitalia painting over all the logos and livery of one of their smaller planes that crashed of a runway at Rome on Saturday? I loved the spokesman’s quote “It is a matter of brand protection” !

    Tip! Buy shares in White Paint before the Summer 2013 rush !

    • Agreed that it was odd. The problem was that it wasn’t actually an Italia plane, it was on charter to a Romanian operation. So odd but I see their point.

      • @ Jon: One passenger said that she thought it was an Alitalia flight because she booked it on their website and that is what was written on her ticket ..
        Conclusion : The plane was Alitalian if it arrived OK, and Rumanian if it crashed :)

    • +1 GrahamD

      I was reading about the Alitalia plane whilst sitting waiting for a flight from Geneva airport back to yUK yesterday afternoon (and no, that wasn’t a typo).

      Sadly, my wife who has a slight fear of flying also read it over my shoulder, resulting in an agonising 90 minute flight as she fractured my right hand whilst squeezing it with her vice-like grip!

  4. Interesting post.

    “….prior to the reinstatement of full liberal democracy…”

    Agree that the current rulers need to be removed (and I think by any means necessary), but “full liberal democracy” is unfortunately unsustainable, as the people will forever vote ever-increasing amounts of largesse for themselves, until things collapse and a “strong-man” – or failing that, the laws of nature (cannot provide for family? Family starves and are removed from gene-pool) – takes over.

    The current system is close to collapse because of sociopaths at the top, but also because our welfare system encouraged consumers to out-breed producers, and even most of the producers were too busy watching football to keep an eye on things. Without the EU, crooked banks, mass Third World immigration etc, the current Western liberal society was on course for collapse. It’s just the afore-mentioned sociopathic elite have brought things on sooner.

    I’m not sure what will come out of the coming Great Unravelling. I doubt very much it will be more “full liberal democracy”.

    • Think it’s about the 1st, 2nd and 3rd world concept of capitalism. Each country gets strip mined according to it’s position in the league. All the countries aspire to the first world. We have been in it, at and near the top now for the duration of this system. It isn’t permanent though and we have failed to adapt so therefore we slide back to 2nd world.
      It is as you said about how living conditions and personal comfort having risen to a ‘level’, are expected/demanded by the populace. It isn’t sustainable though. Importing cheap foreign labour merely staves things off for a while. Sadly we have reached our zenith and are declining. The EU will drag us down quicker than if our own politicians were doing it on their own, but down we will go maybe to upper 2nd world status -if in fact we are not there now.
      Makes me laugh when you here some politician announce a Japanese car manufacturer is building a plant here or there, these are second world signs, they show our skilled labour is cheap enough now to make 2nd world products.

    • ADB,

      “as the people will forever vote ever-increasing amounts of largesse for themselves,”

      I’m calling that statement out as bo**ocks. Democracy is full of examples of people voting for pain in exchange for long term gain. The problem with all this austerity is that there is no bigger picture. Nobody is articulating where the sunlit uplands lie.

      The problem with democracy at the moment is it makes no difference who you vote for. Parliaments and regulators have been captured. Neo liberalism has failed but we can’t vote to get rid of it. The combined forces of politics,MSM and corporate power make sure no other choice is available.

      In the short term revolution is violent and only a short term measure. People soon start yearning for an accountable rule of law. Change will happen and the elites will back down however ungraciously.

      As long as we don’t let them win.

      • Well they (the elite) are winning at the moment having successfully dumped all of their losses onto the unsuspecting man on the street (by threatening to destroy the banking system if these losses weren’t picked up).

        I have always played the game and worked hard for the goodies I have acquired, I wonder what was the point of it all now.

      • ADB/Jason

        No reply function so I’ll put it here. There are dozens of examples including Spain,Greece and Ireland in just the very recent past. Your statement is risible sounds great but zero evidence. I’d give it up if I were you.

        Yes we got the toxic sh1tb dumped on us and yes they are winning. That’s one battle not the war. We have the facts that A) They need consumers and B) there’s more of us than them.

        I don’t rate their chances.

      • There are far more examples of people voting for largesse then of voting for pain particularly in the UK. Everything short term, quick win, and quick profit. Just look at the last General Election not one political party was prepared to honesty put into their manifesto the degree of cuts and financial pain that was going to be necessary for fear of damaging their election prospects. But they all knew it was going to happen as surely as night follows day.

  5. JW, disable third party cookies. That way you won’t get those ‘targetted’ ads. Or use a search engine that doesn’t auction your search terms.

  6. Totally agree with your sentiments … but a what if question.

    If by following all of what you consider a civilised way yet you are then still denied an existence. This bit is where you decide if the next part has actually happened and all hell lets loose. At that point law / justice etc. is all in ruins and a murderer is no more than name calling depending on the side you are positioned.

    Curiously could the current economic situation make this happen?

    It can if underneath economically it is far worse than those pulling the strings are telling us. In some ways I am thankful I am not a Greek or a Spaniard but I have a gut feeling we are not going to avoid it either.

    To prevent the above? Just a minimum cap to ensure an existence for people. That existence ensured denies any use of violence to exist at anytime. Trying to figure out at the moment with definitely not enough work for everybody if a person can be expected to exist on 60 quid a week is at all possible. That is the minimum cap that IDS has defined. If it fails then you get the other.

  7. And yet successive UK governments laugh openly at the concept that they be bound by their manifesto commitments; the commitments on which basis many of the electorate gave them their mandate. How does one respond to a democratically elected government that then fails to fulfil its pledges?

    • @ The Great North Road

      Not just the Greeks, the Germans too! Believe it or not, one senior but nonetheless prattish MdB (equivalent to our MP) in the Bundestag actually came out with something along these lines a couple of years ago: ‘Voters should not expect that we rigorously comply with the promises made in our election manifesto!”

      That sounds straight forward enough, doesn’t it?

      The statement caused a best a minor stir, at most a small ripple, in the MSM, but within a couple of days everybody went back to chomping their sausages, sauerkraut and bier in front of the idiot’s lantern.

      • “The statement caused a best a minor stir, at most a small ripple, in the MSM, but within a couple of days everybody went back to chomping their sausages, sauerkraut and bier in front of the idiot’s lantern.”

        Isn’t it amazing how desensitized to our own survival instincts we’ve become?

  8. Can’t see the difference between your defined fascist authorities and communist authorities, is there one?
    And if not, does it matter what we call them other than ‘enemy’?

      • Your ‘UNION” comment says it all. Globalist Liberalism at its best that word.

        Here is what more and more Greeks are now stating… If I’m not an International Commy, or not a globalist “neo-liberal” liberalist then that makes me a fascist… then so be it… να πάρω το ντουφέκι μου!!!

      • Yes, when i get back to Greece nowadays, Athens feels more and more like I’m on a different planet. Get rid of this post modernism i say and go back to the good old days…. Work to eat and relax. None of this fast paced life with all these mod “cons” that we have been conned into thinking our lives are better.

        Simple basics by the med… the Greece of pre Euro!

  9. “when is a ‘resistance worker’ a terrorist, and when a freedom-fighter.”

    A resistance worker is always a freedom fighter when they’re on your side championing your cause.

    When Obama’s drone kilsl 60 people in Afghanistan, 1 of which is the intended target, the other 59 poor souls just in the wrong place at the wrong time, well, that’s a precision strike killing 60 “militants”.

    When the Taliban blow up a checkpoint in Afghanistan killing two Afghan National Army soldiers, and 40 by-standers, well, that’s a terrorist attack my boy.

    Know the difference.

    • Indeed – when are rioters not just people who have been pushed beyond the limits of what they can be expected to endure with no redress. The imposition of poverty on those in an unfortunate position by those sucking ever deeper on the taxpayers teat – who blame those people for their own misfortune……… which is a direct consequence of the actions of those sucking deepest on the taxpayers nipple. Those very same people who have squirted a few drops to those whose support they tried hard to purchase by offering them a bigger nipple to suck on.

      What ? We should be asking is the difference between someone trying hard to exist on minimum state handouts and those that get paid very handsomely to do very little of value ?

      It is all subjective and usually reported from the vision of the ‘authorities’.

      But………. Winter is coming !

      • I should add that the severence of the link between benefits and the ‘inflation rate’ is in effect an expectation of soon to come massive inflation…….. the government has shown its intention of not looking after those at the bottom of society when this happens………

        Now I should say that in ‘the good times’ when the jobs were out there, then the current measures would have been appropriate………… in the bad times……. putting more pressure on those who are trying to survive will generate a powder keg in the near future……….. uncontrolled inflation on real essentials (not falling price electronic goods) is going to mean people starving…. It was reorted that inflation last year for ESSENTIAL goods (food, power etc.) was running at 30%………….. this causes hardship (whatever the government official figures tell us).

        Bearing in mind that single (and divorced) men, who are worst ‘looked after’ by the ‘system’ are where the roots of chaos will arise………… I am becoming more certain with every day that passes that if it cannot go on – it won’t !

  10. As a former member of the British Army I would have no objection at all to putting at least one bullet into the members of a very long and illustrious list of names. Not that such carnage is likely to solve many problems, but at least those list-members will no longer be able to enjoy their ill-gotten gains.

    Though perhaps Gandhi had it right too; a coordinated programme of civil disobedience or, as an ongoing campaign, the promulgation of a programme of intense disrespect for TPTB. Let them know what we think of them.

    Many years ago I read a very interesting book about Resistance in Nazi-occupied European countries. As one may surmise, the country deemed to have shown the lowest level of resistance (at least until around 06.06.44) was France, but the country adjudged to have displayed the most was Denmark. Amongst other feats, they did manage to spirit almost all of their Jewish citzens across the water to Sweden before the Gestapo could pick them up for extermination.

    But one piece of Danish passive resistance mentioned in the book that did annoy their Nazi masters was a simple knitted hat. Not the hat itself, but its colouring of red, white and blue – and those in the same arrangement as the RAF roundel.

    Let us now think car stickers and t-shirts – like I did a couple of days ago whilst enduring a touch of sweaty flu-fever. The basic arrangement is simple: upper left and right, middle, lower left and right. The use of words is to be restricted to one word – ‘but’, or whatever it might be in its translation.

    The internationally recognised symbol for ‘I love’ is a red heart – this goes into the upper left section. A simple outline map of Europe goes into the upper right section.

    The word ‘but’, or its European language equivalent, goes into the middle.

    Into the bottom right box goes a depiction of the washrag of blue with gold stars known as the EU flag.

    But what symbol can be put in the bottom left box that communicates ‘I hate’, or, if you are liliy-livered, ‘I dislike’? The best I have come up with so far is a black heart – surely a creative Slogger somewhere can think of something better!

    Now just imagine if these were plastered on car bootlids, bumpers etc on millions of cars – or, with summer coming up, sporting it on t-shirts while promenading in town centres, events or whatever. TPTB just wouldn’t be able to get away from them!

      • Far simpler to display the Cross of St George if you ask me. Which I guess is why fire engines and such cannot display them as it’s “racist”.

      • A good idea but….. I have a tee shirt that I wear regularly that states “Corrupt government and compliant police equals tyranny. Your government is corrupt!” Nobody pays a blind bit of notice to it.

      • @ADB

        Sure, a St. George’s Cross would be very simple, but then you are restricting the campaign to the UK!

        Have you any idea how many people in mainland Europe are also very anti-EU – in some cases rather virulently? And do you think they get a fair hearing? As in the UK, over here the MSM are very often singing directly from the respective government’s hymnsheet – one can only speculate on the reasons why.

        But when you get into the blogosphere, the tone changes quite dramatically. And, particularly in Germany, we have a couple of very active anti-EU political parties. But are their activities reported on by the MSM – are they hellers like! On the rare occasions that something does appear in the MSM about them, then the emphasis is on pushing them into the Nazi corner.

        Meanwhile, talking about Nazi’s and their legacy, this appeared on Kopp-Verlag today:

        “Bourgeois snitches: The EU demands block wardens

        Andreas von Rétyi

        The EU sees threats everywhere, especially from the right wing parties. The danger is to be choked with well-proven methods. We citizens should be active and report any suspicious persons. That is the return of the block warden.

        According to the will of the EU, all do-gooders should be active. They should be exemplary “model citizens” and, in the interest of the authorities, spy on their fellow citizens and, if occasion arises, denounce them.

        No, this is not a premature April Fool’s joke. It is a familiar tactic: the floodgates are being opened in the EU for arbitrariness, denunciation and defamation. Just like it is in dictatorial regimes. What is being planned?

        The full text of this article can be read in the current issue of the background information service KOPP Exclusive.”

        One day soon I will be a subscriber to Kopp-Verlag.

        The proletariat over here is slowly waking up to the danger. As for the proposed car stickers – here, in my small neck of the backwoods, I could get several hundred stuck onto cars in a couple of days!

  11. Pardon me John but you say that the Greeek electorate ‘blew it’ when they had the chance to vote out the shits who had got them into the mess they find themselves in. Why does everybody BELIEVE the result of the election?? The Greek authorities, with the connivance of the EU Commission and a bunch of auditing crooks in America, dishonestly got Greece into the EU on fraudulent figures. This is accepted, non? That said, why should you believe the result of a so-called election? Jury trials, Inquests, Queens Counsel investigations et al in the UK are regularly rigged, so why should anyone have the slightest confidence in the result of an election? What makes them so sacrosanct in the eyes of the PTB and, what makes them so sacrosanct in the eyes of the electorate? Our masters (choose any one from the big 3 and UKIP) are CROOKS, and they want to stay in power. British so-called democracy features the following which are bent (if you don’t agree, you’re not keeping up); Parliament (both houses), bankers; the media; the judiciary and the Police for starters. Why should anyone think their vote counts? BTW the whole of the EU commission resigned en-masse in 2002 to (very cleverly) save themselves from prosecution for wholesale corruption. They faced no court; they therefore had no convictions against their names; they kept their ill-gotten gains; they were free to continue their ways in some other guise. ‘Referenda’ – like the one which Cameron holds so dear – were dismissed, without demur, in Holland and France and Ireland some years ago. Will ours count for anything? Hard one that. The mind set of these types is exemplified by HUHNE – a smug, multi-millionaire who couldn’t bring himself to admit to something so rivettingly minor as a speeding fine and was prepared to screw his wife and family in so doing. They all appear to be pathological liars. We still believe them. Wake up and smell their excrement.

    • People belive what they believe in their best interests… Greek election possibly holding outcome for future of Euro… no one was going to risk that. The same people that talk about how you can;t believe anything coming out of the Greek government will then turn and say “thank goodness the election turned out okay, huh?” … I agree… it’s completely laughable… the Greek election was over run with fraud most of which was only reported at regional levels here, and then buried at the nationwide news sources… and never even heard of outside the country… election fraud is like cockroaches, if you see one there is a million… and we saw many more than one instance of it here in the last election,. Thanks for pointing that ridiculous dichototmy out to the sheeple.

  12. Many peeved people on here.Yet the mechanisms of peeving us abound,banks hand our money to the elite owners of “no hair cut”bonds,MPs and cronies are above the law,paediophilia in our elite and MPs and town halls is rampant,and we are silent and unwilling to demonstrate?Six years and counting since 2007,longer than the second world war and more expensive and still no end in sight!

  13. Interesting piece featuring Chomsky here:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/04/us-control-diminishing-own-world

    The well-taken point is made that the US occupation of Iraq has largely failed due to *peaceful* resistance.

    The psychos’ main tactic is to provoke people or nations beyond breaking point, so that they can then “self-defence them to death”.

    Leaders who don’t conform to this pattern, obvious examples being Gandhi and hundreds of other populist leaders down the years, have a fair chance of turning up dead.

  14. when is a ‘resistance worker’ a terrorist, and when a freedom-fighter.
    If a government persistently ignores the law of the land, subverts the constitution, robs the People, connives with external powers, reduces citizen liberty unreasonably, and infects a supposedly apolitical police force with anti-democratic philosophy, then it is asking for trouble. This is especially so when the citizen is left with no form of redress, the legal system is corrupt, and those in charge are obviously taking it up the backside from crooked financiers and remote political manipulators.

    The mind boggles at what could happen in “Gun Tote’n Land”

  15. @bill40,

    “There are dozens of examples including Spain,Greece and Ireland in just the very recent past.”

    These are not examples, these are countries. Try again.

    • ADB,

      What? Of course these are examples of people voting for austerity. Like I said give it up. I have swallowed humble pie on here when proved wrong I suggest you do the same.

      Stop talking bo**ocks for goddness sake.

      • OK, I see you mean people have voted for austerity packages, to remain in the EU? Right, I concede that I asked for examples of “people voting for pain in exchange for long term gain”, and you have.

        It’s not what I was getting at, though. All I am saying is “full liberal democracy” in the West has seen Western societies living way beyond their means, as politicians have promised more and more in order to win votes. The more voters you enfranchise, the more politicians have to pander to them with bribes to stay in power. As an example, it was obvious ages ago that the welfare system was unsustainable, and you simply can’t win with a system that encourages the thick and feckless to breed, so that they have kids who claim welfare, and so on. Yet no politician could come out and curtail that system, based on cold hard logic and the (eventual) greater good, because it would be electoral suicide.

        Of course, while a single mother won’t vote to curtail welfare benefits, a middle-class businessman might. And the single mother might vote for more business tax, while the businessman won’t. So what you get is “all things to all people” politicians tinkering around the edges and managing decline, based on their assessments of what they can get away with without ruining their electoral chances.

        Thanks to the welfare state and globalist capitalism off-shoring manufacturing and jobs, most Western liberal democracies are now at the point where the cuts required to balance the books are drastic, but as “Mark” pointed out above, no party in the last election was prepared to implement anything close to the scale required because again, it would be electoral suicide. The only option from here, then, is for things to collapse and a string-man to take over to make the hard decisions which need to be made. The problem with this of course, is that, just as one man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist, one man’s benign dictatorship is another man’s tyranny.

      • ‘bill40′

        I was interested to read your above post and would be grateful to read of any democracy voting for long term benefit in the way that you describe.
        I’m not at all interested in anyone eating anything humble etc etc. Just the debate.

  16. Interestingly MP Mr. Argiropoulos that posted a comment on his Facebook wall about the issue of the bullet stating that “But next time they are going to plant them into his head. People have gone crazy and they are so stupid that they have understand nothing”. This was enough for the prosecutor to start investigation for the offence of “provocation to commit a crime”. Three days go two prosecutors were prosecuted because they wrote on their website criticizing the Council of State on jugging the first Memorandum as constitutional “as the measures included are ‘bulldogging’ the whole of society” and the government that “gave earth and water to our lenders’. A year ago a Greek athlete (she was about twenty one years old) was thrown out of the Olympic games because she tweeted a ‘racistic’ joke saying that “With so many Africans that came to Greece the Nile’s mosquitos will feel like home”. Ironically on Feb. 3rd the Greek Ambassador to the United States Christos P. Panagopoulos elaborated about Greece that has been hit by a “devastating” wave of illegal immigration from chaos induced by Arab Spring uprisings in North Africa and continued instability in South and Central Asia” (http://factdrop.blogspot.gr/2013/02/greece-swamped-by-illegals-from-north.html). I hope they are not going to arrest him too…

      • I think it is cheaper for us to kick the sh!t out of them, while the cops look the other way, until they leave (I don’t condone it of course… but many find it difficult to argue with results). It has been working quietly for the last two years… record numbers of Albanians, Africans, Middle easterners, etc have already left, and even been streaming into EU offices for voluntary repatriation… a few thousand leave every few weeks… and the EU is picking up the bill… the rest will be slowly terrified out of the country… personally I don’t care where they go. The last criminology research available showed that in 2009 over 60% of all crime in Greece was committed by immigrants (less than 9% of population), and there has been a lot more crime the last couple of years. I see what the “open door” policies in the U.K. and America have resulted in and I don’t want Greece to become a cheap labor expolitation state with resulting devaluation of labor rights and strengths, rising crime rates, and a roving populace of unregistered illegal immigrants trying to insist they have rights that they simply DO NOT… they broke the law coming here illegally… they are criminals, no rights, no right to build a mosque, no rights for your women to walk around covered in a potato bag and refusing to photograph for ID, nope… not here. So… if you guys want them, no problem (I am sure they will be a big help for the labor pool) but they aren’t getting citizenship… and they aren’t staying here. The cops will keep looking the other way until the patriots have scared them all off. Take note EU country’s… these people have been lusting to infiltrate western Europe for thousands of years… they don’t plan on paying taxes, becoming a part of the culture, or for that matter repecting your laws… they are coming to make it their own. Either stop them or start learning to love shawarma. Racist rant over… sorry if I offend.

      • Ioanni , the whole thing resembles the illegal and legal immigration and barbarization of the Roman Empire that led to it’s fall.Of course at that time they came from the north,the south and the east as well but the similarities are scary if you consider that at one hand Justinian in Constantinople was doing what the bureaucrats in Brussels are in a self-righteous diktat style ordering people around ,enforcing an economical and political awkward-stupid-delusional monarchy on small countries ,and at the other hand Rome in perfect anarcho-tyranny failing to control criminals and practically tyrannizing the law-abiding citizens offering no security ,collecting confiscatory taxes just like what is happening today.European politicians exploit their citizens ,fail to defend them ,try to wipe out their identity that originally held them together and believe that ungoverned immigration can perfectly live together with overgoverned citizens. In other words our situation is worse that the Roman as we compine two in one .

      • Yana… exactly. It may not seem “politically correct” to state the obvious outcome of such an ill informed course of immigration policy but there are simply too many thousands of years of history that invalidate the “sensitivity” of the bourgeois. If Western Europe allows the Arab Spring to funnel a new underclass of criminal invaders (what they legally are) to undermine their society’s, economy’s, and cultural identity… it will not be for lack of example, or warning. Greeks will simply do what is obviously necessary to secure their country… no matter what the leftist idealogues that DO NOTHING about anything have to say to the leftist press that DO NOTHING about anything. As usual, the answer on the really difficult problems will have to be handled by the people as our “government” is too weak and worthless to DO ANYTHING about ANYTHING that doesn’t involve having their lips planted deep in Brussels KOLO.

      • Ioannis “I think it is cheaper for us to kick the sh!t out of them” there is a flaw in your argument. Doing this means they come back with some friends and return the gentle welcome you offered them as sociable Greeks. That means you are then at the mercy of the Greek health service needing help with a broken jaw and other minor details.

        Far better to invest in a charter flight to the UK as well as giving them a passport and a packed lunch. That way they get the idea that Greeks are nice folk and when they have the money from the UK government, return not to kick your teeth in, but to thank you and drink some wine with you on the terrace.

        Oh, and if they then don’t want their photo taken, it’s bye-bye and no passport. End of story.

        What a pity your government doesn’t have your guts.

  17. Banking and insurance seems to get mote psychopathic . I read in news that Churchill insurance blamed a victim for being knocked down in a road accident. Claiming they should have known that walking along a pavement at night would increase the likelihood of getting run over. Obvious eh?
    It’s like the banks . It’s your fault being robbed by banks if you place your money with theiving gits ie banks.

  18. Sorry, O/T.
    Pinched from online BBC news hys.

    A banker, a Daily Mail reader and a benefit claimant sit down at a table to share 12 biscuits.
    The banker takes 11 biscuits for himself, then says to the Daily Mail reader “Watch out for that benefit claimant – he wants your biscuit.”

  19. Pingback: EXAM QUESTION: If a Bank sets aside, what does a Huhne do? | The Slog. 3-D bollocks deconstruction

  20. For years now I, just like you, have been reading about ‘tipping points’ or ‘red lines’ or sparks to rebellion/revolution or whatever…..
    I would have expressed the same idear I am sure.
    I was wrong and anyone who thinks that ‘the people’ or even the Monarch or military will arrive at the crisis point to restore sanity is wrong.

    All revolutions I have ever heard of only happened with long term organisation, outside finance and rather clear deliniating lines (I would argue Romania was a revolt not a revolutionary change in government. Different rulers same rule).

    None of these things are present in our current situation.
    The revolution has already happened.
    The international finance elites took over. They know control every function of real power in the world.

    The People will put up with, in no order…………

    ………hundreds of dangerous foreign criminals living off of them forever……
    …..abortions (secret from parents obviously) for twelve year old girls organised at school……politicians who steel Hundrends of thou and laugh in their faces……the implosion of the energy economy via weird twisted ‘green’ lies….wars to massacre innocent and defensless foreigners based on obvious lies…………….

    …….you can throw your own examples on the pile.

    My point is that there is not really an awful lot left when it comes to the ‘…people will simply not stand for…..’ list.

    The People have lost their Faith.
    Thus they DO NOT REALLY BELIEVE THAT THEY DESERVE JUSTICE.
    They do not really think that they have a country, a life or a world worth saving or fighting for.
    Hence, the predator class now rules and ANYTHING is possible….accept any organic and succesful attempt to restore liberal democracy.

  21. Killing is a crime.
    So is treachery, so is lying to millions of people that trusted you.
    Accepting bribes and piling a huge stash on the expense of other people’s lives is a crime too.
    Every patient dying because of the inefficient health system is a crime.
    Every kid that drops out of school or is fed a shallow education – it’s a crime.
    It doesn’t matter. The psychopaths are well protected. Armored cars, isolated palaces, guards, electronics…It’s different than in the past. They got the money, the power, the technology – they control the media and our food supply. The chances that you get close enough are already slim, if one is willing to sacrifice his own life. If not, the chances are minimal…

    So a few young rebels end up putting a bomb in a mall or a bank. TPTB don;t give a sh*t. They end up scaring the average family man, who next time will probably vote even more conservatively and sheeplishly.
    Moral or not – i don’t know. But pointless it is i think.

    There is only strength in numbers today. In education and free spirit.
    In mastering the IT and communications technology. And in the pen.
    That’s why they try to control the net, the media – that is why they want us divided – that is why they keep throwing bread and ciscuses at us.

    Sometimes late at night, i imagine millions and millions of people saying “no more”. In Britain, Ireland, Greece, Germany, France…all over Europe – the States…Not just in one country (especially in a small one like mine) for it will be suppressed the next day by the global allied “cult”.

    It’s not easy to resist. Not everyone is a hero. Maybe there’s a lot like me out there – not much left to loose, but when you got people depending on you, putting the everyday breadcrumb supply in risk is a hard decision.

    And oh yeah, Cretans sent a bullet-letter. Well, we have always been big show-offs…It was nice when the EU agricultural subsidies where flowing in. Voters of the Estate politicos for the past 30 years…The tap has closed now so bullets might start flying. Bull(et)shit…

    Killing is a crime. Killing of the body, of the spirit, of hopes, of good feelings. And it could be that, sooner or later, we might have to define our personal and social lines between “defense” and “revenge”.

    Sleepless and sheeplish in Athens

    • Nick , as we lose all faith and respect to our institutions we will only feel a bond to those close to us and of course try to defend them and survive too.This is The New World of Frederick Turner , an epic poem set in 2376 in a world of riots , burbs , sword fighting ,violent anarchistic matriarchies ,new slaves , mad countries , fanatical fundamentalists , but heroism , love and honor as well .

    • Welcome to the establishment of English Law or should I say total “Legal Fiction”…. Until Greeks realise what is happening to them nothing will change. If it goes on much longer any resemblance to what is sovereign will be lost and at that point i fear that tanks on the streets may be a real possibility.

  22. Pingback: John Ward – Exam Question: If A Bank Sets Aside, What Does A Huhne Do? – 5 February 2013 | Lucas 2012 Infos

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