Royal nurse’s suicide: is there something we’re not being told here?

The Slog asks what many of us may be thinking: was Jacintha Saldanha corporately abused after the hoax call?

This may be yet another of those posts that leaves people baffled by my apparent heartlessness, but I need to ask a question:

Why did King Edward VII’s Hospital nurse Jacintha Saldanha feel the need to kill herself?

She obviously felt humiliated by falling for the Aussie radio station 2Day FM’s prank, but was it really something worth getting suicidal about?

Let’s just analyse closely and forensically the total fallout from her error:

1. She answered some questions about Catherine Windsor’s state of health. This information was already in the public domain.

That’s it.

Now take a look at the exact statement the hospital released immediately after Mrs Saldanha’s suicide: it said that the nurse who died was the person who first took the hoax call and transferred it through to Catherine’s ward, adding that she had worked there for more than four years as an “excellent nurse,” who was well respected by co-workers.

The hospital “had been supporting her throughout this difficult time,” the statement said.

This statement came from the hospital’s public relations agency. Ah, right. Not that unusual in this odd age we inhabit I suppose: but I’m left wondering why an excellent nurse admired by her colleagues would be suffering such rock-bottom self-esteem, she would feel the need to kill herself.

Also concerning was the release from St James Palace. A spokesman there said: “The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge are deeply saddened to learn of the death of Jacintha Saldanha. Their Royal Highnesses were looked after so wonderfully well at all times by everybody at King Edward VII Hospital, and their thoughts and prayers are with Jacintha Saldanha’s family, friends and colleagues at this very sad time.”

Separately, a palace spokesman told CNN: “At no point did the palace complain to the hospital about the incident. On the contrary, we offered our full and heartfelt support to the nurses involved and hospital staff at all times.”

It seems to me there’s an awful lot of protesting going on here. We supported her, we didn’t complain….who accused you of doing either thing? At no time has any media title or contractor asked:

1. Was Jacintha suffering from depression?

2. Who spoke to her professionally after the incident, and why?

3. Were the Royals upset enough to have made their feelings clear to either the management or the nurse?

Yet this would be the obvious thing to do. Imagine what the media response might be if a Cup Final referee gave a free kick of no great import, the replay showed he was wrong, and the guy killed himself?

As far as I can see, almost nothing in the vilification of the Aussie DJs and the death of this obviously skilled lady makes any sense at all when you hold it up to the light. If I burst a balloon behind a snooker player during practice, and he takes out a gun and shoots himself, do I deserve the world’s press on my case?

But overnight, I note from Sky News, “Police in London have contacted their Australian counterparts with a view to interviewing the pair [of DJs] ahead of an inquest into Ms Saldanha’s death.” I’m sorry, but this is absolutely ridiculous. And now, God help us, we have the oily Keith Vaz bleeding all over the late Ms Saldanha’s presumably bewildered family.

The main media obsession appears to be why on earth do DJs do this sort of thing, and why did Hospital procedures not preclude something like  this happening. This in itself is a reflection of the abiding attitude in our elite’s culture: everything must be legislated for, and anyone or anything getting in the way of that must be castigated. It seems fine for politicians to create totally foreseeable disasters, but failing to see the unimaginable consequences of an everyday prank must be severely punished.

I would be genuinely interested in all reasonable thread comments. Without doubt, this is a tragedy, and I’m not trying to make light of it. But my water tells me more elements of this case may yet come to light.

 

145 thoughts on “Royal nurse’s suicide: is there something we’re not being told here?

  1. I agree wholeheartedly – a wrong-headed prank led to tragic, unforeseen consequences, but unforeseen is the crucial word here. We spend our lives getting into and out of situations that we don’t anticipate. Such is the human condition. This blame game is facile and immature.

  2. John, someone like yourself can possibly take an embarrassing moment in your stride – water of a ducks back. Others are deeply humiliated by such things. Remember this was being repeated ad nauseam by the giggling DJs it was all over every paper and every internet site and the media was acting like the Guardian finding another hacked phone. For someone who spends their life in quiet obscurity that can be just way too much to take. The nurse felt she was responsible for breaching the privacy of arguably the most famous woman on the planet! The public humiliation could easily, rapidly and unexpectedly put someone like that over the edge. Even if the hospital managers had said it’s OK you are not in trouble; just being approached by the managers about the same subject could have been terrifying – being called to see the management after the fact wondering what they were going to say… even if they were comforting.
    The caring character that made her a good nurse was what made her susceptible to this type of pressure.

    • And You, Ian W, are an example of the failed thinking in this whole debacle.

      You are basing your opinion on hindsight and emotion – not calm reason and common sense. Do you really think that if the DJs had had any reason to believe that their prank would cause someone’s death that they would have carried it out?

      While the nurse’s sucide is tragic, it was unforeseeable in any balanced and reasoned scenario. It is just another symptom of a society where people are pushed and pushed and pushed until they are psychologically broken. For whatever reason or reasons, she felt that she had to take her own life. Whether or not the prank was the reason or catalyst, she was psychologically ‘damaged’ before she took that call.

      We already live in a society where our voices are stifled for fear of accusations of having ‘offending’ some section or individual – do you really want to live in a society where we have no social intercourse through fear of unforeseeable legal repercussions?

      As John pointed out, where is the line to be drawn? If I play a practicle joke on someone and they throw thenself under a bus a year later, am I guilty on the grounds that he was possibly emotionally scarred by my prank? Guilty unless I can prove that there was some other reason for them doing so?

      Society is soft emotionally and mentally. People need to grow some balls and stop trying to see blame in every event. Shit happens and we need to understand that sometime noone is to blame.

      • You make an assumption for which you have no evidence or reason to make. Who tells you that the lady was “psychologically danaged before she took the call.
        If you want to make a point than make it but do not casta slur on someone who no longer is able to answer back.

      • @ louis and above

        Indeed Louis you are quite correct, and Ian W is I suspect quite close to the truth very intuitively, but the subject is so tricky and poorly understood no one should be faulted, especially Peterloo in giving a very important warning about misplaced blame — which can only increase the odds of social shaming and round we go again. In fact, as a recent issue of Science has it (Science 23 November 2012: Vol. 338 no. 6110 pp. 1025-1027 ) , suicide in most parts of the world is showing itself to western researchers as something that does not at all fit the prevailing mental illness model — data is difficult to come by, but, from the article:

        ‘Emerging research from developing countries … is now filling that gap—and overturning prevailing notions. “The focus of the study of suicide in the West is psychiatry,” … While mental illness remains an important correlate …, he says, researchers may learn more from a victim’s family, religion, education, and personality. New findings,… suggest that some researchers may have misread correlation as causation: In both the East and the West, “mental illness might not be the real cause of suicide.” ‘

        The article mentions social shaming as at least as important a factor in these tragedies as psychiatric notions of ‘depression.’

      • What an idiotic response. djs knew that prank would likely get someone fired. They do have responsibility, at least in that way. Or do you think it would be a cool prank if I call the pizza place and ‘fool’ the employee to send me free pizza? Do you think that in the name of fun its ok for someone to lose their job?
        this was not a case of someone getting offended. They were purposely trying to fool the hospital staff. Of course they knew harassing the nurses to breach confidentiality could have REAL consequences. Not hurt feelings or someone getting offended, real consequences as in someone not getting a promotion, getting suspended with no pay, reprimanded or just fired. Yes, something should be done because they acted intentionally. In exchange for rating, they thought nothing of potentially getting two nurses fired.
        This is really a tragedy, not everyone commits suicide after screwing up at work. This time it happened, and the djs are at the start of it, at least they should get fired.

      • If I play a practicle joke on someone and they throw thenself under a bus a year later, am I guilty on the grounds that he was possibly emotionally scarred by my prank? Guilty unless I can prove that there was some other reason for them doing so?
        This is a strawman argument and as such there is no need to respond. This was not ‘a year later’ nor was it just a practical joke. What you all seem to miss is that nurses (all medical staff) have it drummed into them repeatedly that patient confidentiality is sacrosanct. She broke that professional trust. In her terms she did the equivalent of John being tricked into sending the names and emails of all his sources to the National Press. Remember not only did she enable a breach in patient confidentiality but the patient involved was one of the most high profile patients in the world. The nurses probably had a briefing on how important it was to keep everything confidential. The personal humiliation together with the feeling of professional failure would be extremely intense.

        Now did the DJ’s know that one of the people they tricked would commit suicide? They probably never even considered it – it does not appear to be in their character and indeed they continued and repeated the humiliation as reported on every single media outlet in the world. It was totally obvious that the tricked nurse would be humiliated and embarrassed but that was the entire point of the exercise why else? What else is funny?. So Peterloo – you would appear to be much like them. Who cares right? It was good for a laugh and if someone is so humiliated they commit suicide, become psychologically damaged – that’s their problem isn’t it? Now who can we humiliate next for a laugh? Does that sum up your opinion? Mind if I humiliate one of your relatives till they breakdown? Obviously you don’t and if I were to do that it wouldn’t be my fault if they did themselves damage as a result would it..

        It is the unthinking damage to people that is tragic here. Note that as soon as the boot is on the other foot and people worldwide are trashing the DJ’s one of them starts saying they feel suicidal!. You see from the nurse’s point of view – it was not a joke – it was a public failing in professional standards. Now for the DJ’s all of a sudden it’s not a joke and they get the same feeling.

    • Are we to believe that as Ian W said, “the most famous woman on the planet,” had no basic security or protection of her privacy, from common phone calls whilst in hospital?
      Do we no longer have an intelligence service that protects ‘royals’ at all times, especially when an expectant future Queen, or King is about to be born? The blame has been thrown everywhere by MSM, except where it is most critical… Why did, “the most famous woman on the planet”, not have every call addressed to her intercepted by MI5 or other intelligence?

  3. JW our old chum CS is of the opinion that something more sinister afoot, he puzzles why a lady with children would end her life prior to the festive season.
    He mentions that there have been other prank calls without anyone being dead.
    I guess you could ask why the daily heil did a hatchet number on her after the prank stuff came out..

  4. Like yourself (I think), I suspect the management gave her to understand that she had gravely offended, and they have moved at light speed to cover up. Possibly someone else in the know may eventually let slip that they were threatened in order to enforce adherence to the official version.

  5. JW The lady is of Indian origin. The public humiliation she suffered (in her own mind) and couple this with high esteem is was held by her family in India, would lead to an unbearable loss of face. Especially as no doubt the fact that she was one of the nurses on the ward of the Duchess, would have played a very large role in India. The family would have been elevated to high status in the village where she hailed from. Possible she felt she could no longer show her face in public leave alone in India.

    Just a thought? Although as you said there may be more to it than meets the eye.

  6. It does seem odd, but we can never truly know the minds of others – Gary Speed comes to mind.

    But if the filthy piece in the Daily Heil wasn’t entirely fictional, she had felt some significant blowback from any combination of the palace, hospital and feral fourth estate.

  7. One of the cornerstones of Public Relations work is the concept of “getting ahead of it” when it comes to the media representation of clientele that have done something wrong or are trying to hide/ make it appear as though nothing has been done wrong… that is why the multitude of protestations from the PR departments of both the Hospital and the Royals seem so transparently in the interests of deflecting any responsibility for/ or involvement in any possible cause for her grief to become overwhelming. All the more reason for anyone that has a brain, knows how PR “spin” works, and is objective can safely assume that there was pressure on her from the hospital, and that of course it came from the royals (having been embarrassed themselves). Sadly for whatever reason, she killed herself over this… this does not justify a cross continental witch hunt over a pair of morning show idiots… the fact that they are even attempting to find a way to punish these morons proves that they are trying VERY HARD to deflect the media from looking any further into what they allege DID NOT happen at the hospital and in the palace. Really pretty basic PR tactics. Still it is enough by todays standards to invade Australia and start a war (thanks Bush, now even radio gags are weapons of mass destruction… or is that weapon of mass distraction?) who cares… hang those DJ’s high!!!

  8. I don’t know anything more about this incident than what I have read but your question is I believe a reasonable one even though it is based on what we don’t know rather than what we do.

    The key may be culture. I have met people from more than one culture who would regard it as almost necessary to take their own life in these circumstances, regardless of the cost to their family, indeed their family would understand it in a way we, of a different culture, would not.

    Corporations (like Australian DJ’s) might well not understand it either. Thus they would be keen to be on the defensive from the outset, as no doubt the nurse was the subject of some critical comment, but not a moments thought would have been given to such an extreme reaction.

    No doubt there will be a number of ‘lessons will be learned’ statements from various parties, but the truth is where cultures mix there will always be a risk of something going horribly wrong in an unforseen way. But the catalyst on this occasion appears to be the DJ’s ‘prank’.

    That is where I lay blame. I have always despised the casual way that some people so routinely humiliate others they do not know. My friends and acquaintances have routinely taken the p..s out of each other for decades, on occasions one or other has gone to far and caught a victim at a vulnerable moment. Unintended damage soon seen and quickly mended. I think that is probably difficult to criticize, it is life, but that is very different from the Russel Brand, Wossy, Australian DJ sort of targeted but utterly remote humiliation of victims of their *harmless fun*.

    • “I have met people from more than one culture who would regard it as almost necessary to take their own life in these circumstances”
      Really? You would think after more than 4 years in London and in employment she might have just got a little grasp of our culture and how unimportant this episode was, however , if she had been subjected to the hairdryer afterwards…

      • But it isn’t about what ‘you’ think or four years in London, if it is about culture, it is about her culture and not yours or mine. That is the point.

      • Couldn’t find a ‘reply’ option below Full stop’s comment…

        Her culture…? She was Catholic. Catholic doctrine is very clear about not committing suicide.

        The DJ’s may have been a bit foolhardy, but sane people do not kill themselves over a prank call. She didn’t even provide the information – she just transferred the call. I assume the nurse that actually breached patient confidentiality rules is still alive…

  9. I have been puzzling over this as well. I just can’t believe that a mother would commit suicide over something like this. People just don’t commit suicide at the drop of a hat, it just does not make any sense.
    There were times I felt so very very low during my secret family court ordeal, but to hurt your children in this way there would have to be a massive reason to do something like this, surely she would have been asking for help very loudly before doing this? As for it being a culture thing, I don’t believe that either, when I lived in Handsworth I found Indian and Pakistani mothers to be so very family orientated, it’s a culture thing for Indian mothers to pretty much lay down their lives for their children. I can’t think that anyone would just commit suicide like this without putting up some sort of a fight to sort things out.

    • You obviously have neither lived worked or visited India. I assure you that the “mentality” style of life etc etc, is vey muich so as I described in post before.

  10. It wasn’t Jacintha Saldanha that answered questions about Kate, it was the 2nd Nurse…Jacintha Saldanha transfered the incoming call to Kates Nurse.
    Where was a security protocol at the Hospital to monitor incoming calls where the most Famous Woman in the World was a Patient…..A Nurse left to be responsible to take incoming calls…nonsense !!!!!!!

    • I think you’re on to it Don. It was reported that there was no switchboard operator on as it was night time. So, this famous hospital was cutting costs–austerity? Saldhanha a nurse, not a phone attendant. Presumably she had no training in taking such calls and probably had no idea that neither the Queen nor Prince Charles would place their own calls. In addition to which, how horrifying a prospect would it have been for her to insult the royals by not accepting their calls if it had been them? However, it still seems, as John says, there’s a piece missing.

  11. She was given a five star bollocking immediately after it happened by some tyrant matron.

    “You stupid idiot Saldanha! You weren’t authorised to do that! You’ve made the hospital into a laughing stock! How could you be so bloody thoughtless! Your behaviour was utterly unprofessional! You should think about getting another job!” etc etc.

    When Uncle Tom Cobbly an’ all got involved, it was quickly swept away.

    But the damage was done.

      • Knowing how the Common Purpose management of some hospitals work, I would not have been in the least surprised to hear that the hospital, being vaguely embarrassed on behalf of their Royal guest, had been intending to unleash a storm of disciplinary measures on the nurse involved.

        You can just hear it now – all sorts of vicious threats of disciplinary action implied and threatened. Then a conscientious nurse, knowing how difficult it might be to get another post of a similar quality, might feel a degree of disgrace sufficient to cause her to “do the honourable thing” by the lights of her culture.

        That said, the DJs were B*****ds. There’s too much of this nonsense on the airwaves; scummy no-marks humiliating people as entertainment; the Panem et Circenses of our dreadful declining civilisation.

    • They don’t do tyrant matrons any more. They do modern matrons who are just band 7 nurses with no superpowers to clean out dirty corners and biff stroppy consultants.

      However HR would have been all over her like a strawberry rash. There will be a ‘telephone policy’ somewhere that will have catch 22 phrases in it.
      I worked in, admittedly NHS, pathology for a number of years but I’ll bet 10 to1 that they’ll have much the same system. I can remember discussing the telephone policy at a management meeting in light of the introduction of our new path computer system. I can also remember pointing out that if you make rules they have to be enforceable and enforced otherwise what’s the point. This was in response to them
      including a ridiculous extra step in the identification of caller section. I’d bet that was a policy she’d read when she joined and then signed to say she’d read it -Gotcha! And I’ll further bet that is the section of it they’ll have been going over with the proverbial fine tooth comb.
      Next step would have been an informal interview -to get the goods to hang her- this is the one you take your union rep to because he/she will know when the trip wires are coming up. But I bet she wasn’t a union member, no one to speak up for her, no one to stop her tripping over the wire. She will have been told at the end of the interview [her line manager and the spook from HR] that there would be an investigation and that should it turn out that she was found at fault, there would be disciplinary proceedings, possibly leading to dismissal. Offences committed under the confidentiality clauses and failure to apply hospital policy

      • Yeah , no matrons , just like public schools are run exactly like your local comp. These institutions are set up to work properly for the elite not cobbled together on the cheap for the hoi polloi.

      • My take is also that rather than “being supported” this poor lady experienced some quite horrible management threats including possibly threats to her professional status and standing (ie being struck off). I would also ager that she was threatened by various government officials to keep quiet. Apparently not if you read the papers. But they print what they are told. This tragedy was surely instigated by irresponsible DJs, but perhaps it outcome was driven by heavy handed officialdom – and is now being covered up.

  12. “She answered some questions about Catherine Windsor’s state of health”

    She didn’t even do that John. She just passed the call on to another nurse who answered some questions about Kate.
    I wonder who does the autopsy. RIP Jacintha.

    • i wonder who formally identified her .. her husband said on friday that he couldnt see her body ’til monday because of legal formalities. Is that usual?

  13. Lots of questions which the docile gatekeepers of the MSM don’t want to ask – why was she not in contact with her family? Where was she between early Tuesday and Friday morning? Why the slow post-mortem? Who certified the fact of death? How and where was she found? Why was she found if she was on night shift? Who raised the alarm? Was she still on night shift? Why were press there to photograph the “private ambulance”? Why is nobody talking?

    Could be another Gareth Williams – nothing visible in public, everything “emerging” through “sources” including plenty of disinformation.

    As for motive,(not that we have had a post-mortem!) well, it’s frankly ludicrous. I don’t believe a word of it so far.

    • @felix The breaking news (BBC news 24 I think) said Jacintha had been found on a park bench (the morning after the incident, I believe). You could add the fact that it was around freezing that night to any other scenarios.

      • The first report I heard said that she was still alive when she was found close to the hospital.
        Later it was said she was found in Nurses Accom. Why a change in the story?

    • This is a very strange story indeed. I, like John and many others it seems, feel (gut feeling) that there is something very wrong with what has been reported on this story.

      On a side note. There seems to be a big increase in depression in this country, with more and more people going on the anti depression pills.

      My friends lodger (33yoa male, very nice bloke and whom seemed like full of life) became depressed to such a degree about three weeks ago that he was sectioned for a week. On Monday this week, he walked in to the woods and hung himself.
      His name was Lee. RIP.

      It is my intuition, that this country is being crushed into the ground, morally and spiritually.
      The five senses are one thing, but intuition is too important to ignore.

      • @wfd It is my intuition, that this country is being crushed into the ground, morally and spiritually.

        yes I thought I just caught sight of four horsemen…..

  14. Whether the hospital spelled it out or not, Nurse Saldanha must have realised that the hoax had inadvertently embarrassed what is supposed to be a top hospital looking after one of the most guarded people in the world. Presumably she already felt insecure with her language skills and lonely in a foreign country – and being the butt of jokes around the world was more than she could cope with. No, most people would not have reacted in such a drastic way, some would even have laughed along at being fooled, but it’s easy to see why a shy, sensitive person who took their job seriously might have found it more than they could bear. So I suspect this is one of those terrible, freak incidents that come as a result of numerous coincidences, sparked by a misjudgement.

  15. Point of order:
    ‘Let’s just analyse closely and forensically the total fallout from her error:

    1. She answered some questions about Catherine Windsor’s state of health. This information was already in the public domain.

    That’s it.’

    Actually she merely put the call through to another nurse who divulged information.
    As a side issue the ease with which two idiot aussie DJs were able to extract information makes you wonder what a wily NI hack might be able to garner.

    Whatever the ins and outs (and I’m not even convinced it was suicide), surely what magnified the error a million fold was the media all around the globe reporting (essentially retweeting) it. As soon as her death was announced, those same spineless hacks turn on the radio station and heap all the blame on them.
    So much for the post-Leveson world.

  16. You can always count on the UK press never to ask the right questions,for smarmy politicians to seek a publicity shot, and legislators to use a human tragedy to consolidate power by legislating away press freedoms. How many massacres in Syria, bomb blasts in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, go unmentioned by the press, when the focus has moved to this.

  17. I am very shocked by the death of Mrs Saldanha and troubled by this whole episode. I am torn between knowing more and yet appreciating that it is private and Mrs Saldanha’s family are grief stricken and should not be caused more distress by our curiosity, ignorance and failure to understand. However, in the spirit of encouraging greater understanding of different cultures I have looked at the news reports and the many comments again.

    I heard reported that Mrs Saldanha’s mother has stated that in her opinion her daughter died from shame. I think there are important cultural differences involved here. In North India and Pakistan (across all religions of the region, Hindu, Muslim and Sikh) is a concept central to the region’s culture. This concept is called izzat, or honour. It regards maintaininng the reputation of oneself and one’s family (especially women). Where there is loss of honour there is shame.

    “In true shame oriented culture (such as North India, Pakistan, China, Japan etc), every person has a place and a duty in the society. One maintains self-respect not by choosing what is good rather than evil, but by choosing what is expected of one. Personal desires are sunk in the collective expectation. Those who fail will often turn their aggression against themselves instead of using violence against others. Shame is removed and honour restored only when a person does what the society expects of him or her in the situation, including committing suicide if necessary” Paul G. Hiebert 1985

    I don’t know if cultural differences have caused Mrs Saldanha’s perception and decisions to be very different from that which we would expect, but I am sure she was very stressed and distressed by the prank phone call. I believe her family when they say she was not suffering from depression. I also believe the hospital management when they insist that they did not reprimand Mrs Saldanha but tried to be supportive. I wonder if the supportive words could have had a different meaning to Mrs Saldanha. I am sure no one blames her for being successfully duped by the pranksters, however, she herself may have been brought up with a far stronger sense of personal responsibility, in accordance with the cultural values of her family. In which case it might be that what she did in ending her life, was extremely tragic and yet very brave.

    I am shocked to see so much criticism of Mrs Saldanha and failure to believe her family, when they say she was not depressed or suffering from low self-esteem. We should look to our own ignorance and failings. We currently have a largely superficial, vacuous, corrupt, selfish and casually cruel society. We have little to be proud of. It is we in the west who should hang our heads in shame.

    • A sensitive and moving response, than you so much.
      The element of shame – while tragic – is something we could do with introducing back into our culture. The question is, how the Hell would one do it?

  18. I commented in similar fashion on the Independant report of Plod contacting the Aussies and received pure vitriol for may pains. On its face it seems to be a case of Plod again being led by the Mob – though how the tabloids came to stir the mob at their target in the first place is an interesting question.
    My uneasiness was aroused as I watched the Chairman and Chief Exec at their ‘we will not be taking questions’ press briefing outside their hospital. Making due allowance for the difficulty of their position, even with ‘nothing to hide’ so-to-speak, their body laguage and general demeanour screamed “guilty concience” to me – suspicious sid that I am.
    I reckon Plod time would be far better spent questioning management over the nature of her counseling than hounding a couple of pranksters who clearly bore no malice and were aiming at a legitimate target – but it ‘aint going to happen – for public consumption any how.

  19. I too, am left bemused by the whole affair, to the point that I can see the argument about losing face but, as has been said, it did seem a bit drastic to me. We might never find out the truth.

    • Agreed.The good wife thinks I’m callous but I think the reaction regarding the DJ’s is totally over the top.The prank went wrong sadly but where will it end?will comedians stop taking the mickey out of people in the front row?Would Jeremy Beadle get work today if still alive?This world is getting stupid,its like the public need to have a new witch hunt every week to keep them (amazon/starbucks last week)happy..Agree the media seem to go with the party line,very rarely probing the incident, perhaps to deflect whats really happening in the world or the public just want constant deflection of the reality of their lives.Putting my tin foil hat on…I’m beginning to think that TPTB are deliberately,slowly slowly funneling us into acting like a total automon ,not allowed to think/say things that do not FIT with their agenda less your friend/neighbours turns you in! hat now off! And don’t get me started on mass public wailing/throwing of flowers at funeral processions….

      • Oh I do hope the Jeremy Beadles of this planet WOULD all drop dead. Who in hell wants this adolescent, puerile, nonsense kind of humour? Anyone over 15 years old would think it inappropriate anywhere outside the back of the 3rd form classroom. Humiliation of the vulnerable to amuse the masses. Charming. I think not.
        If you absolutely HAVE to have humiliating Candid Camera or radio spoof call jokes to make your life complete, Grunter, then for Chrissake let us have them obey the fundamental regs and etiquette – which this silly Sydney station certainly didn’t. That is GET CONSENT before or after the event but BEFORE broadcast. The DJs were just pathetic little naive twats just out of school. But their management knew EXACTLY what they were doing before spreading it all over the planet.
        These are the bastards responsible. THIS is where we should be pointing the finger of doom. Maybe now this has happened more people may understand why the rules are made. Because a*soles like Wossy and Bwand and this pair of Ozzie twerps go over the top and don’t know taste from sh*t. They would never in a thousand years have got consent if they had spoken to that nurse before broadcast would they?? It is absolutely NO excuse to say “well we couldn’t have expected that consequence could we?” That’s what the bloody rule is for sunshine – so you can check how far the humiliation was felt – and therefore whether the recording’s transmission would be appropriate.
        My opinion about the poor nurse is NOT that there is some awful cover up or conspiracy John. She probably did get SOME sort of immediate reprimand from someone. It would have been VERY surprising if she didn’t when you think about it. And I’m sure her humiliation was compounded when she found out she couldn’t distinguish between the accent of some colonial antipodean pillock and British Royalty. VERY embarrassing! Even that is speculation. Guessing about her state of mind, cultural effects, vulnerability – or about PR hype etc etc is just that – guesswork. The enquiry may come out with more. Sure most of us wouldn’t commit suicide over this sort of thing. Personally I’d be more likely to take the first plane to Sydney and wrap their guts round their necks. But none of us (yet) know what position this poor lady was in. Some of you have made empathetic and thoughtful surmises. Can’t we leave it that without playing the blame game conspiracy thing all over again?
        BTW it is NOT surprising that a PR operation would swing into action.
        JW knows full well that every company which takes responsibility for people’s lives – from airlines to hospitals, from cruiselines to factories has a contingency plan for “Crisis Management” these days. That usually involves PR professionals. I know several extremely honest people I’d trust with my life who perform this function. And their job is NOT to cover up but to act as a single conduit through which the facts can be established and the press briefed BEFORE they go off speculating rubbish like so many here are doing.

      • Way to go Duncanmca, the first comment you have ever made I totally agree with.

        On the strength of that (and the roof I have repaired today in freezing conditions and I mean ice) I am going to make a strong cup of coffee to celebrate.

      • Jeez @ duncanmca,shoot me down in flames why don’t you :) You stated it was humilation of the vulnerable to amuse the masses.
        I dont think they intended to humilate anybody never mind the vulnerable.As i read it the poor nurse only connected the phone to the correct dept and it was the other nurse who answered the questions .I have not heard the interview but did hear on the news it was a few questions about her current condition, so don’t know whether they were intended to humilate or not but I would not have thought so.
        YOUR response to any thread anywhere on the internet could be interpreted by the intended receipient ( mental health status unknown) as humilation even if they was no such intention on your part.IF that person then killed themselves would you be in anyway to blame?
        I would say No because if everybody analysed everything to to the tiniest detail before doing/saying anything nobody would leave the house.
        The DJ’s were doing what they are paid to do..entertain.It should be the radio bosses who should be punished for not following their own rules.
        And yes I like the occasional bit of schoolboy humour, it makes me chuckle

      • duncanmca, you use very strong words in your comments…you asked “Who in hell wants this adolescent, puerile, nonsense kind of humour? “… Apparently a very large number, indeed millions who tune in every morning around the world for looking for a good laugh, maybe a joke or the next prank because they have a less stuffy opinion on the world than yourself and find silly pranks hilarious. Clearly you have superiority over these people I can only hope you dont have any deep/dark secrets of your own waiting that might cause you embarrassment; or the victim of making an simple error of judgement that would see you exposed and vilified as you have done here. No-one has the full facts on the circumstances surrounding the death of this lady rather unsubstantiated speculation. Thankfully you are not Judge in a court of law as you do not appear willing to hear the facts first but opt to vilify, point your crooked finger then crucify someone you have unjustly targeted only to discover you were mistaken once the facts are out. This is one of 10,000 similar tragedies in the UK this year and each one equally devastating with a complex story of it’s own. If you a man of consistency you have your job cut out for you in dissecting and finding someone to blame in each of these other tragic deaths.

  20. I was saying the same thing myself:

    The Djs are a catalyst, nothing more. I’d say it’s highly likely that the nurse took a lot of grief from PR people at the hospital and likely from various royal handkerchief carriers. Coupled that with what appears to be a lady who took it all very personally and who’s mind was not in the best of overall health.

    Like you say John, methinks the higher-ups doth protest too much.

    • I absolutely agree. It was tragically the wrong person on the wrong day. The trash radio the two DJs were involved in is popular, and i’ll bet that many of those who are baying for their blood also laughed at such shows.
      We shouldn’t be persecuting the DJs, rather we should look at wider society and think about exactly what very many people find entertaining.
      People are now are so ‘dumbed down’ and stupid.
      RIP Jacintha

  21. 1. She answered the phone and passed the call along to another staff person.

    2. Once it was clear the call was a prank, she was chewed out by several people. “Didn’t you hear the tone beeping every 30 seconds, stupid?” Perhaps there was mention of a formal review later in the week (hence the Friday suicide). Colleagues suggest she start looking for another job and resign in order to avoid a disciplinary removal on her employment record.

    3. The cultural aspect kicks in and she decides to kill herself to save face.

    4. The hospital PR machine goes to work. It deletes the draft press release which was to announce that the incident is being investigated and an employee is the subject of an administrative investigation. A new release is created absolving the hospital from being a contributing factor.

    5. Secular people issue statements that they are offering prayers.

    6. The Radio station’s ratings in Australia go through the roof due to people wanting the chat about the incident on the air.

    7. The DJ’s find work doing voice overs for adverts.

    8. A number of family members in India commit suicide.

    9. Kate has lunch with Elton John.

  22. My observations are:-
    1. She was of Indian origin, not a native English speaker – had she been, she would probably have instantly realised that the caller was not HM Queen. The Aussie DJs were fortunate to have the initial call taken by some such.
    2. Married, with two children, home in Bristol, yet working as a mere nurse in Central London, commuting for shifts and staying over ? Feasible for a mobile executive perhaps, but for a lowly nurse, albeit in the private sector ? How do the numbers work ? It’s not like London is short of people to recruit.
    3. What the hell is it to do with Keith Vaz ? He’s an MP for a Leicester seat – if any MP were to be involved at all, it should be the MP for Bristol (or her shift-doss in Central London), certainly not the dusky, greasy, opportunist Vazeline. Or is he the roving MP for anyone with a dusky skin-colour and a topical photo-op ?

    • Ah but Keith Vaz is the grand self appointed spokesman for the UK’s entire Asian community so its perfectly natural that he should become involved. Think of him as a sort of show business Asian version of Max Clifford.

    • Yes, item number 2 is a bit hard to understand, especially when a photo of the supposed family home in Bristol was shown, it looked rather run-down to me. If you live in such circumstances I cannot see how cost effective it is to keep commuting rather than find a job with private hospitals in her local area, even as an agency nurse. And Jacintha had children to look after.

      Vazeline wants to look as though he is doing something, perhaps Jacintha’s MP has been warned off.

      • @ Me Your analysis sounds about right.
        @louis Your analysis does not preclude the above.

        I havent read any articles on the affair so maybe this has been covered elsewhere but:
        a) I would have expected the royals to have a press officer/spook on duty 24h to deal with all forms of public interest. The palace seems at fault.
        b) Was it economic necessity that forced Jacintha to work so far from home or something else?

        We are most definitely being distracted, with public venom at the australian pranksters orchestrated and misdirected.

    • Keith Vaz is of Goan origin as, it would appear, are the family of the unfortunate nurse, that is why they all have Portuguese surnames. They may quite possibly have kinship ties as well — Portuguese/Indian families tend to maintain close links within their communities so quite possibly Vaz has a personal relationship, in turn explaining his current concern for the family. In any event his remarks that the dead woman’s relatives deserved more support than the Australian jocks, were spot on.

  23. Sorry John – I think you are chasing your tail here. The poor woman had nursed members of the Royal Family before. I think she simply felt she had betrayed them. Should that have upset her so much? No. But it did. It’s truly tragic

  24. Hi John Clearly, she was given a right bollicking for not following procedure and bringing the hospital into potential ridicule. But yes – you don’t up and top yourself just for a bollicking at work orevery mortuary would need quadrupling in size. Good on yer mate – the feeling in your water (ice?) is probably rightand it aint cystitis! Is it true that the nurse was Andrew Sach’s cousin twice removed? Cheers Paul Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 06:00:23 +0000 To: paulstarck@hotmail.com

  25. Another thing no one has dared utter is that this entire incident was down to the fact that, bless her, she wasn’t British/English/ethnically native -whatever PC description you choose..

    Any true Brit hearing the utterly ridiculous impersonations of their majesties would have said ‘piss off you’re not the queen now go and bother someone else’.

    • Jacintha had worked for four years at that hospital. She would have heard the royals before, she would have been trained in protocols on how to treat the royals, there’s more to this than meets the eye.

  26. After the news of her death two points came out of the hospital:
    1. The royals have not complained.
    2. She was not subject to any disciplinary action.
    Untangling the spin this probably means:
    1. Someone on behalf of the royals had complained.
    2. She had been suspended pending disciplinary action (breach of confidentiality being gross misconduct in the NHS.)
    Suicides are quite common following a suspension (see http://www.stamfordmercury.co.uk/news/crime/tragic-death-of-council-director-1-4197726

  27. Many of the same thoughts have been going through my mind.

    My suspicion is that the hospital management hauled her over the coals. The Royals may not have complained but the management took it upon themselves.

    I doubt the truth will come out.

    I feel a bit sorry for the Aussie DJs.

  28. All reasonably minded people who are not avid viewers of celebrity shite on the TV, are I am sure asking the same question. Either there were underlying problems or there was a witch hunt by the hospital behind the scenes. The vilification of the DJs and the request by the Met to talk to them is ridiculous.

  29. I agree that this phone call in itself ought not to have driven an otherwise stable individual to commit suicide. Which tells me, that this woman was more than likely, for some reason, mentally fragile, long before the phone call. I believe that this stupid phone call, was a ‘straw that broke the camel’s back’ moment. The prior background events that were troubling her, be it work issues, family issues, money issues, cultural issues or clinical depression, will only be clear at a coroner’s inquest, where her doctor might be able to put together the missing pieces of puzzle with regard to her prior mental wellbeing.
    All in all though, a deeply sad event.

  30. Pingback: John Ward – Royal Nurse’s Suicide: Is There Something We’re Not Being Told Here? – 11 December 2012 | Lucas 2012 Infos

  31. I agree that corporate hospital concern over royal patronage must be the key.
    Added to this is why they were there in the first place. William ‘ s hatred of the press, yet his new wife, who appeared topless a few months ago, goes to hospital with morning sickness after a few days of feeling unwell, aware of the public interest this will attract. Hypermedia is horrid but with all the resources they possess, was there no way of protecting this lady, and all of the rest of us, at home to deal with this. Something is not right – hatred and repulsion of the press from the Royals, but also need and deep attraction to it.

  32. I also cannot understand how the situation as reported caused this lady to kill herself. It may be that louis sallons, Paul Starck and other commentators are correct. It may also be that the lady was already suffering from depression or some other condition, we are never likely to know. However, the hospital and palace spin that they were so completely OK with what was for them a hugely embarrassing event (discussing the Princess’s condition on the phone at 5.00 a.m.) that no one in authority even thought to castigate the nurses involved is absolutely unbelievable to the point of being incomprehensible. I have no doubt at all both nurses were threatened with disciplinary action, as would have been perfectly proper.

    “This in itself is a reflection of the abiding attitude in our elite’s culture: everything must be legislated for, and anyone or anything getting in the way of that must be castigated.” It is worse than that, John. Listen to Today on R4, almost every person interviewed, be it politician, special interest advocate, charity, anti this that or the other blatherer, plain old bigot from anywhere or the bloke next door they ALL demand that ‘the government must legislate to stop this’ or ‘the government must regulate that’. 60 years of cradle to grave welfarism (social democracy) has trained the majority of the population to see government as both provider and enforcer of all our needs, desires and preferences. That government is the cause of our problems, not the solution, never even enters their head.

  33. What would have happened if the mean prank by Jonathan Ross and Russel Brand had resulted in harm to Andrew Sachs? Both entertainers are multi-millionaires, with continuing careers.

    The two Australian DJs merely followed a long tradition of pranks, and are merely the means by which a set of events were set in motion, and although their responsibility for the CONSEQUENCES is obvious, they had no ill intent.

    Life has an uncanny knack of exposing weaknesses that Life Itself wishes to be addressed, so the question is “What weaknesses are being exposed here?”

    Unless the lady in question was suicided in some form of revenge for her actions, logic suggests that there must have been a prior state of mind in existence, that just required a suitable jolt to tip the poor lady over the edge, in what is a very human tragedy, which occur throughout human history.

    One might imagine that with a Princess in a hospital well-used to Royal visitations, that security would be a well-oiled machine. Apparently not. Communications are one element of security that seems to have been wide open to, fortunately, benign abuse.

    I would imagine there would have been severe embarrassment at both the hospital, and the security services, and that this embarrassment would have done what hierarchies usually do – point the finger at blame lower down the greasy tree.

    As is mentioned above, the PR machine slides into action, seeking to get their version in first, and place all blame in the Antipodies, where the originators dutifully perform the role of media scapegoats before an audience far beyond their wildest dreams. As their lives and careers are at stake, no doubt they are experiencing emotions they never expected to arouse, and are on an accelerated learning curve.

    As the days pass, no doubt new information will surface, like oil after a shipwreck, and be dissected and analysed all over the internet.

  34. “The main media obsession appears to be why on earth do DJs do this sort of thing, and why did Hospital procedures not preclude something like this happening.”

    Actually I detect very little of the latter, The focus appears to be entirely
    on the Australian radio DJ’s.

    It seems to me that between them the hospital authorities and those responsible for royal security have a lot to answer for. I just find it utterly incredible, in view of all we know these days about the global media’s obsession with the royals and especially in the current immediate post Leveson period, that this apparently relatively junior nurse (and, as I understand it, not a native English speaker), should find herself as the initial recipient of such a phone call, (regardless of what time of day it might be).

    This was clearly an innocently intended prank, (which I do not defend). Another call might have been something very much more sinister. So how would that have been dealt with ? Of course we wouldnt expect to know – but this doesnt give much confidence.

  35. Jacintha was a very caring nurse, mother and wife, and while she may have felt acutely embarrassed about the hoax call I doubt very much, given her apparently strong christian views, that she would have taken her own life And to deprive her family of her presence especially at this time would take considerable amounts of sheer callousness, not something that a caring woman would contemplate let alone carry out.

    My thoughts initially were that this was incredibly suspicious and very strange. What if the whole affair was a put up job from start to finish – Jacintha had seen something she shouldn’t and this was a piece of theatre to explain her “offing”.

    We don’t hear anything about the second nurse, the one who apparently gave out personal details and who would feel even more acutely embarrassed, again rather strange.

    Jacintha’s family are being given the runaround, another red flag. Wouldn’t Jacintha have confided in her partner and her family? She would have received support from her close-knit family.

    Hospital telephone policies, I have always believed anyway, are very stringent and wouldn’t this be the case even more so with a private hospital who pride themselves on discretion regarding their high profile clients. And Jacintha, having worked at the hospital for 4 years would have known that it was a fake call, she must have seen or heard members of the royal family before and been made to follow protocols.

    No, something definitely a bit Hollywood about this, and dare I say it, a bit of a dark pre-Christmas pantomime to keep people distracted from what was really going on.

    RIP Jacintha, bless you and your family.

  36. How come a very expensive private hospital with patients from all over the world and concerned relatives ringing at all times of day and night had no trained receptionist/telephonists on duty when the stunt call came in?

    Apparently the dead woman who picked up the phone was on night duty — and therefore probably knackered and in no fit state to be filtering incoming calls for which she, presumably, had no training.

    I ask:

    One, because I had an aunt who trained receptionist/switchboard operators precisely to filter calls from potential crackpots/pranksters/abusive partners and the rest. She did a lot of her work with hospital staff precisely because of the vulnerability of their patients.

    Two, when a close friend was in an NHS hospital recently even his partner of 30 years had difficulty getting through to the staff treating him.

    I sense that the Duchess’s hospital is getting off pretty lightly in this. Do they have no duty of care? And what about the royal protection people too?

  37. Pingback: RUMOURS OF BACKLASH AGAINST BLOGGERS: more details surface after Slog asked to delete links | A diary of deception and distortion

  38. Woah! Stop! Everybody, just hang fire for a moment. Why is it that the majority of the posts thus far are simply base on opinions as to why this poor unfortunate lady took her life? Since when did we suddenly start taking at face value EVERYTHING we’re told despite zero evidence so far?

    The initial media tweet (for that is basically all it’s worth comparing with) mentions “apparent suicide” and this was repeated planet-wide over and over and over again — The Hindu Times printing word for word what the Boston Globe printed what every f**ker else printed! That makes it fact?

    Scroll up this page and please reread what felix posted. He’s hit the nail on the head merely by using a bit of objective, logical common sense.

    Oh and one more thing. Stop comparing what these two DJ’s did with the Ross and Brand “prank”! They were foul and abusive whereas at no time were the Aussies anything other than polite!!! They meant no harm! They’re only guilty of being a bit thick!! Since when is that a hanging offense?!

  39. I would imagine that somebody whose job it is to keep a tight lid on this story that should be packaged & presented to those who are interested in this Royal soap opera, probably came down on the top management like a ton of bricks. This ton of bricks, as always tends to happen, was then thrown down on top of those at the bottom.

    Tragic, it seems not just one female involved needed to be wrapped in cotton wool.

  40. Pingback: RUMOURS OF BACKLASH AGAINST BLOGGERS: Details surface after Slog asked to delete links « 21st Century Wire

  41. If these DJ’s have the ability to make people commit suicide with a mere telephone call, I think they should be employed by the Department of Defence.
    I can think of a number of people who need a telephone like this.

  42. There is another bit of bollocks to deconstruct here. Two Aussie presenters played a stupid and ill-conceived prank and got a totally different outcome from what they envisaged in that they got through to the ward.

    All the pressure generated was not the transmission of the hoax by the radio station to a very limited audience 12,000 miles away but by our old friends the MSM leaping on the bandwagon and having a feeding frenzy. The story then mushroomed from being an “and finally” humorous filler, up through “outrageous prank” and “Royal Security Breach” all the way to crime of the century.

    From this point I agree with JW’s and Zen Zen’s take on the the subject.

    I wonder how many of our good and faithful press were harassing this nurse to get yet another angle on the story.

    Unlike “celebrities”, politicos and media types many people still retain a sense of honour and decency and react badly to vilification and ritual humiliation.

    My thoughts are with the family and friends of Jacintha Saldanha.

    My anger is reserved for the MSM and Hospital Management that caused it.

      • Stevie, in general I agree but in this case there wasn’t even any real scandal to be had except perhaps that the hospital management had no system in place to deal “illicit” phone enquiries.

      • I meant in the sense that the Royals & others have had to develop a siege mentality because of a hunger for scandal from the MSM to feed the ravening public. This I think seems to have caused a knee jerk reaction to a situation of little note, resulting in the scandalous way the nurse seems to have been treated.

  43. John,
    I’ve begun to feel of late some of your posts have veered away from what can reasonably be called “evidenced bollocks deconstruction”. This post is the latest example being based entirely on speculation and no different to the wall to wall radio chat show/tv news features currently filling the airwaves. Where in the posting is a scintilla of evidence?
    I appreciate keeping a blog fresh means there is a need to regularly post but as already mentioned this is not the first article of late which to my eyes seems more about adding noise than examining the signal.

  44. Well sadly I don’t give a shit for any of it as not one word about it seems plausible. We cannot know how, why or when this lady lost her life mainly because we weren’t there when it happened and all the MSM does effectively is lie but looking at the direction of travel the MSM and HMG are on a mission to position the internet as evil. The ‘internet connection’ with this story are the MSM ‘s own web sites which keep the speculation and deliberate misinformation at the tops of their home pages!

  45. At this moment one must wonder whether there is logic after all in the Catholic Church considering suicide a grave sin. Even a supposedly forgiving religious institution casts blame on the one who takes their own life, rather than casting blame on others. I don’t care what anyone says, this nurse bears some great amount of responsibility for her own action. Saving face… come on, that’s an excuse and grown people from whatever culture need to learn to deal with issues.

    • As someone whose father was a Catholic, I do find it odd that having remorse about being a paedophile priest (and thus killing yourself) is a mortal sin, whereas the crime itself isn’t.
      I have always had my doubts about confession.

  46. f A (say) illegally abuses B, and then B kills C, A is in no way responsible for B killing C. A is responsible only for what he did (the illegal abuse) and for any realistically predictable consequences. Everyone’s agreed, the death of the nurse wasn’t predictable in this case, so the DJs can’t in any way be held responsible for the nurse’s suicide. That’s true in law and it’s true in morality. The nurse’s suicide can only have been because someone or some people affected her after the hoax, or because she was hugely sensitive about being hoaxed, or because there were other factors in her life unrelated to the hoax.

    We don’t know what happened, but it is unlikely anyone would commit suicide simply because they had been hoaxed. And we do know that the only people in a position to have had an effect on the nurse after the hoax were the Prince, his entourage, the hospital management and her co-workers. If the hoax is related to the suicide, therefore, it is overwhelmingly likely that one or more of those people pressured the nurse, by being angry with her, withering towards her, or shaming her, or whatever.

    Almost certainly, therefore, there has to have been some kind of an ‘atmosphere’ at very least, and it wouldn’t have cost the Prince much to have assured those weakest links in the chain, the nursing staff, that they needn’t worry unduly – would it?

  47. If the deceased lady’s heritage made her susceptible in such circumstances to personal pressures which we Westerners can’t fully (or even partially) appreciate – as has been mooted – the HR team at the Hospital (the best that money could buy) most certainly would. To arrest her possible negative thought processes, lack of symptoms notwithstanding, she should surely have immediately been given sufficient leave of paid absence and counselling to recover. Would the hospital care to make public their response to her possible mental deterioration before her untimely death?

  48. Looking back over the comments I find the only common thread to be that people have commented based on what they would feel, or do or think.

    For instance, the DJ’s weren’t at fault because the person saying so doesn’t find them at fault, ergo, they can’t have been at fault.

    Another person says no-one, especially a mother would commit suicide over this issue, meaning they wouldn’t therefore no-one would, ergo she didn’t commit suicide.

    If I have learned anything in my six decades it is that judging others or what others do or even more unreliably what they would do or did, based on what I think I would have done, is generally going to be a recipe for assumption and bollox.

  49. We wondered if there is a powerful message being transmitted here by MI6.
    The softer alternative might be a new identity elsewhere , but with the same message.

    • “We wondered if there is a powerful message being transmitted here by MI6.
      The softer alternative might be a new identity elsewhere , but with the same message.”

      ???

  50. Ahh, the truth, a foreign country indeed.
    And who actually decides what is the truth?
    Conspiracy theorists type A will believe that poor Nurse S was harrassed by the press, and that Leveson should have mighty teeth.
    Conspiracy theorists type B will be convinced that she was effectively bumped off as a distraction to other news. Was she on a park bench or was she in her digs.
    Incompetence theorists will be sure that idiot people in idiot jobs like HR, threw the book at her and she buckled, with no support.
    Objective people might be prepared to accept that, on her values scale, she felt she had let down everyone from work, to family, to culture, to history, and that she couldn’t face the perceived shame.
    Whatever way you look at it, the press did their usual rubbish, sloppy job.

    • No, they don’t do a rubbish job – they do what is required of them. Otherwise they wouldn’t land the job or stay in it. Result, questions aren’t asked. Correct scenarios painted from “sources”. Job done.

      New identity elsewhere. As good as any other scenario.

    • No-one has suggested “she was effectively bumped off as a distraction to other news”. What some have suggested is that the MSM concentrating on her death to the extent, and in the manner that they have is the intentional distraction.

  51. John, over the past few months this blog has gone from demonstrable fact-backed stories to a cesspit of misinformed opinion and supposition. The obsession with institutional paedophilia without the cold hard facts (unnamed sources do NOT count) is tiring. Whenever anything happens its the fault of the elites/its a cover-up/its a conspiracy/we’re doomed.

    Ever thought of a job at RT ?

    • Peter
      I never understand why people confuse informed speculation and carefully-written inside knowledge with cess-pits.
      But at least after all this time it got a reaction out of you.

  52. Pranks, jolly japes, practical jokes, hazing, bulling, racism, sexim – all amount to the same thing. Hateful, disrespectful, clearly if you’ve never been on the receiving end for being too tall/short/fat/thin/posh/common/ginger you can’t put your yourself in anyone else’s shoes. The Australian’s need to take a close look at themselves.

  53. Hello,
    A few facts.A nurse is found dead.Scotland Yard refuses to comment.A ‘source ‘ tells daily mail that its suicide.This was Friday.Apparently most{all) the media report cause of death as suicide.
    Question? Without proper and due process ie coroners inquest,how can mediaworld declare that this poor mother of two took her own life.And apparently many other people propagate this same suicide scenario.Why is it important that everyone must believe it was suicide.I for one will follow the ensuing enquiry with avid interest.May the truth be told and pure speculation left in its proper place,in the city.

  54. Why so little criticism of the BBC (and other UK broadcasters) for their complicity in the prank by playing the tape over and over again ad nauseam?
    The case involves three pet hates of mine.
    1 The employment of cheap – probably sub living wage – labour (whether indigenous or immigrant)
    2 The ludicrous fawning over and reverence for an even more ludicrous royal family
    3 DJs. What a worthless “profession” where individuals via the playing of popular music give themselves airwave expose far beyond their worth as human beings.
    Of course, the poor woman was in awe of whom she thought to be the queen and must have felt truly miserable having been so relentlessly ridiculed and humiliated by the playing of her telephone conversation.

  55. Like you, I think, I suspect that someone in authority “had a word” with the nurse. After all they are not supposed to give out personal information so the hospital probably had a procedure. Having said that though what would you do if you believed you had the Queen on the other end of the phone? The “word” from above should have been tempered with understanding followed by genuine support. I very much doubt it was.

  56. All these comments saying ‘nobody commits suicide over that’ or ‘there must have been something else’ etc. As was said higher up the thread by Rebecca Devitt (@Carbonised) (December 11, 2012 at 8:07 am) about izzat is so true. This is why a father will kill his own daughter for going out with a boy of the wrong religion – cue comments ‘nobody commits murder over that’ or ‘there must have been something else’ …. except honour killings are accepted as true. Hara Kiri is accepted as true. I am sorry but it is quite possible that it was suicide for loss of face. Possibly done in a more complex way than jumping of a balcony though.

  57. What an awful tragedy. Looking broadly what is at fault is the celebrity culture that we are all be-dazzled by. In the meantime some poor nurse who was caught up in all this is a victim.2Day FM is the kind of radio station for young kids and the intellectually challenged. But what is it the fuss about? Some Pommy bird is having a baby and got sick.Why are magazines and newspapers so entrenched in celebrity gossip that this is all over magazines, newpspapers and magazines? Is this baby floating about in 24 carat amniotic fluid with diamonds already on its head? Normal women have babies everyday. Lots of them not just the Skinny Pommy Bird. We should be thinking about social justice and privacy for all, especially the nurse and her family and the poor stupid DJs who have been left hanging by the radio station. Vote 1 for a Republic for Australia and lets have no more of this royal rubbish.

  58. Any person taking phone calls at the hospital reception desk should have had training as preparation to help screen for inappropriate incoming contacts. Not doing so is not being naive it’s putting the staff at risk. If the
    nurse was not fully supported after the prank call came in it seems that the
    hospital should bear a major part of the responsibility for her desperate
    act.  

    As concerns the DJ’s half-hearted mea culpa – it may be true that they
    didn’t perform their hoax with the greatest of British accents or with the
    intention to hurt anyone but did it every occur to them that the person on
    the other end of the call was :
    1 – flush with excitement at having a call from the royal family
    2 – not of English mother tongue
    3 – perhaps tired as it was the end of her shift   

    Having done a stint as a telephone receptionist for a large multi national I
    can say that as the many calls come in from all over the world with a
    multitude of accents one gets a majority of callers who are not of English
    background some who speak with appalling accents. As the receptionist your
    focus is not to decide if they are who they say they are but to do your job
    accurately and quickly passing calls through to the appropriate party. It
    really seems that the hospital let the staff down by not preparing them for
    Kate’s stay. Did they then appropriately circle the wagons once the nurse
    suffered shame and sorrow or brush it off with a stiff upper lip?

    Everyone with power up in the media and hospital hierarchy has a part of
    this.  Blaming the nurse with speculations of her being a weak, mentally ill
    or depressed victim is inappropriate to say the least. 

  59. I agree entierly. Of course these morning radio idiots should have thought aobut consequences, but they could never have anticipated all the little details of the circumstances that would lead to the poor womans tragic death. And for that I do blame the whole media! So the DJ’s did the prank. But if other papers, radios, etc thought is such a bad thing to do, why did they all repeat the call?? Should they not have drawn a line and thought about the consequences? No instead they jumpd on the money making band wagon and promoted the story. Which in the end, if you want to account public humiliation as the reason for the nurses suicide, makes the media the killers. And not the DJ’s. But I guess the media knows fully well and to deflect they take it out on the DJ’s. To the point, where even here people in the blog said, that the DJ’s should get fired and feel suicidal. Some peopel would probably even cheer if they did commit suicide. So are we an ‘Eye for an eye’ society? Have we forgotten that this only leads to blind people? As a sociaety we are not reponsible for blaming (as this was not a purposefully committed capital crime) but for helping, supporting and preventing.
    This is a classic example where human beings are at their worst and lowest. Looks like we haven’t made any progress in the past few thousands of years.

  60. Pingback: Rumours of Backlash Against Bloggers: Details surface after Slog asked to delete links | Sovereign Independent UK

  61. Pingback: Nurse Saldhana suicide: friends and relatives dispute official version of her death, husband ‘furious’ at media coverage. | A diary of deception and distortion

  62. My first thought in this was that the royals, specifically young willy, likely took extreme umbridge over this and came down hard on the hospital. (This is lets face the same willy who, when his good lady had the bright idea of getting her tits out on hols and was photographed by a pap half a mile away on a public road, was incandescent enough to sue). The hospital probably gave this lady and anybody else around the mother of all crap outs. Now this is still not a reason to do yourself in if you not of that disposition, but it certainly makes more sense than telling us she had all the support in world, told she was not to blame etc etc and then kills herself.

  63. I find it hard to believe that a private hospital of this standing has nurses filling in on reception who are not properly trained in reception duties. I also find it hard to believe that any person would fail to spot a fake call if it were the Queen calling at 5am (or whenever it was). Come on now the Queen never makes her own calls and certainly not so early in the morning. No professional nurse would give details like this to anyone’s relatives let alone a royals information. This whole thing stinks rotten. There is far far more to this story.

  64. Pingback: John Ward – Nurse Saldhana Suicide : Friends And Relatives Dispute Official Version Of Her Death, Husband ‘Furious’ At Media Coverage – 12 December 2012 | Lucas 2012 Infos

  65. She left a note apparently and I guess that will hold the key to why she did this. The media are only idiots because they have a listening public says more about society honestly. They like pranks they just dont like someone dying as a result. Those poor kids and all her family. Nursing at the best of times is a very stressful job. Maybe as a society we could show them all a little more respect, I think nurses in general deserve this considering what they have to put up with.

  66. Pingback: John Ward – Nurse Saldhana Suicide : Friends And Relatives Dispute Official Version Of Her Death, Husband ‘Furious’ At Media Coverage – 12 December 2012 | Truth Seeker

  67. I completely agree with this post. Everybody is saying it’s disgusting, but had they been given the opportunity to do what these radio DJ’s did, they would have too. It was intended to be a fun, harmless prank. My view on it is that at least one of the nurses the DJs spoke to, should have taken more precautions and made sure the call was not a hoax, if that were me, I would have. I mean, does anybody ACTUALLY think that the Queen and Philip would phone into the hospital themselves? No. Kate was not on her deathbed, therefore they would have just been getting updates from Will when he could see or speak to them. So maybe when one of the nurses started giving the information, the DJs should’ve either hung up, or cut them off and admitted what they’d done, and apologised, but I do not think they are in the wrong in the slightest. It was a harmless prank, and while the DJs are adults, who hasn’t made a prank call in their life? It’s stated the Royals didn’t even know, but the hospital supposedly slammed the nurses, as they should have. Although the circumstances are entirely different, this is the same as somebody calling a music venue to ask to speak to the artist playing there tat night, or what they are up to. The information should NOT be given out unless you are 100% sure that you are talking to the correct person.

    • The Hospital NURSING Administration Department would have given the 2nd. nurse (the one that actually gave out the information) a blast and she, Jacinta’s very own nursing colleague, would then have given Jacinta a real seeing to.
      The 2nd. nurse was probably over excited about the prospect of speaking to the royals and, being one of the “new breed of very confident, self important” nurses that staff hospitals now, she probably opened her gob without even thinking about checking out the validity of the call. If that 2nd. nurse had been told off by NURSING Administration after the event, she would have then turned on Jacinta like a robber’s dog and probably caused her no end of stress. I bet she gave her an absolute bitch of a “telling off”.
      The fact that Jacinta was considered “a very good, compassionate nurse” would have been quite an aggravation to her colleagues. All the more reason to bring her down. Mr Cameron, I think, promised more clerical/reception workers in the NHS – it might be a very good idea to keep nurses off the phones and out of the office. Don’t keep blaming the 2 DJs – it just keeps the truth from coming out.

  68. I think the nurse was totally murdered by government. U see it on movies so why can’t it be true in real life. There’s always something dark behind government walls.

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