GREECE IN OR OUT: the two armies are face to face

A finely-balanced tussle about the fate of Greece had the markets on edge today

The forces swirling around Greece’s punch-drunk head remain more difficult to lasso than ether. But an exhaustive check with every source (and reading of every signal) by The Slog over the last two days suggests very strongly that two diverse coalitions – with diametrically opposed opinions and aims – are struggling to gain the upper hand. The goal of one side is to ensure Athens stays in the eurozone; the aim of the other is to effect its exit with all dispatch.

From the day these latter stages of Greek agony began to unfold – around the late Autumn of 2011 – The Slog has maintained a consistent line: that far more is in play here than simply whether Greece can live up to its promises in relation to debt repayment and austerity schedules. As 2012 has progressed, however, both strategic geopolitics and domestic schisms throughout the developed West have contributed to the complexity, facing every serious analyst, as to what is or isn’t going on – and likely to happen.

Along the way, some of the players have changed sides – most notably the White House. Last January the Obama administration was moving Heaven and Earth to ‘amputate’ Greece and create a firewall around it, while at the same time hoping to embracing it and get access to military bases and energy/mineral supplies in return. Now the US ruling Party is pulling out all the diplomatic stops to keep Greece in, and the euro stable – the better to facilitate Obama’s re-election

Joining the Democrats on the ‘in’ side of the fence are France (terrified of its major banks blowing over in the aftermath of a Greek default), Angela Merkel (conscious of the likelihood that Germany will pick up Greece’s internal EU bad debts) and Beijing (worried that an unstable eurozone will tip China over into a dramatic slump).

On the ‘out’ side of the game, it immediately starts to get complicated. Figuring they can only gain from Grexit, Romney supporters within the American banking and bureaucratic system are – there is now no doubt in my mind – conniving with all the muscle and money they can muster at the creation of a major Hellenic crisis . Their main conduit for so doing is the Troika of international bondholders and lenders, many of whom see the election of Romney as being a likely return to business as usual. Despite the oft-employed description of the IMF as  ‘Keynesian’ by many financial press opinion leaders, in reality there are more debt hawks there now than doves: while the bondholders left outside of the ECB are, on the whole, firmly of the belief that debts must be seen to be paid….with excommunication if they aren’t.

In the same camp are the private Bankfurters and Weidmann-led Bundesbank, most of whom are now convinced that any attempt to save the entire peripheral ezone axis could only end in financial disaster for Germany. Their ideal solution would be the banishment of Greece, Portugal and Ireland. Mario Monti of Italy is of a similar mind, having long felt that further monies given to Greece in particular are wasted. Mariano Rajoy of Spain is torn, but in private is reputed to believe that a devolved Spain under EU ‘protection’ is inevitable sooner rather than later.

Only two players have a foot in both camps, and neither represent what one could call a surprise. The German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble doesn’t want a crown of thorns when he becomes the financial leader of the Fiskal Union proposed by Berlin-am-Brussels; but equally, he doesn’t want a meaningless bauble either. Herr Schäuble is strongly of the view that Greece should be forced out, and all the available market-convincing firepower focused on Spain and Italy. But as ever, he favours boasting about the money available to support these countries, rather than indiscriminate bond-buying. Whereas the ECB boss Mario Draghi would very probably buy every ClubMed bond unsold at auction – although he too is now four-square behind Greek amputation…but after November 6th. As a technocrat, he does not believe that messy Greek default plus American panic could be controlled.

Even this three-wheeled applecart could be overturned if Antonis Samaras’s Coalition partners persist in their stance of refusing to accept the full package of austerity policies being demanded by the Troika. Nobody in Athens is really sure whether the Venizelos motive is the downfall of New Democracy or calling the Brussels/Berlin bluff, or both. We must simply all hope that the Fat Man knows what he is about.

Based on what I’ve been told, what I’ve read, and the tone of various public pronouncements, my money is still very firmly on Greece sticking with the euro. The forces in favour of it appear to be in the ascendancy. My fear is that, at some time after November, the splits in Germany and ClubMed about the fate of the Greeks will come under intolerable strain. But on balance,  continue to think that Berlin will be out of the game before Athens.

 

54 thoughts on “GREECE IN OR OUT: the two armies are face to face

  1. Hi John
    Greece sticking with the euro, “The forces in favour of it appear to be in the ascendancy.”

    For now it is the case John but as soon as the US election is over the balance of power will shift very quickly indeed.

    Everyone is now well aware of the just how big a black hole Greece has become, hence why Merkel and everyone else has pushed back a decision on Greece until november (after the US election).

    After the election Greece will walk the plank… yarrr!

  2. Best thanks, JW, for a very nicely drawn summary.
    Allow me to take slight issue on a couple of points:
    1. “Only two players have a foot in both camps, and neither represent what one could call a surprise. The German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble…” Wolfgang isn’t chancellor and he has a great future …… behind him. He will do what he is told by Ange the flange.
    2. As for the pre-keynsian Bankfurters, they don’t make German policy (nor do the bond markets while Germany is solvent) – even though they and their international counterparts have laboured under this misapprehension for more than 40 years,
    3. “continue to think that Berlin will be out of the game before Athens”
    .As for Germany leaving the eurozone before Greece, Gexit means deliderately collapsing the eurozone. If Germany leaves, so too do the Austrians, Dutch, Finns, Belgians(?) and French (?) to form a hard euro or D-mark zone. Might have been wiser in the first place, but we are starting from here not there. Unscrambling the euro-omelette would leave too many people with rotten eggs spattered on their political faces.
    4. As for R and R in the US, forget them.

  3. I’m not convinced, I don’t think anybody is going anywhere, as Václav Klaus says in the DT article: The new offensive followed the unprecedented declaration by the Commission’s president, José Manuel Barroso, during his “state of union” address to the European Parliament on 12 September, that he would make proposals for a fully-fledged EU “federation” in 2014. “Let’s not be afraid of the word,” he said.
    “This is the first time he (Barroso) has acknowledged the real ambitions of today’s protagonists of a further deepening of European integration. Until today, people, like Mr Barroso, held these ambitions in secret from the European public,” he said. “I’m afraid that Barroso has the feeling that the time is right to announce such an absolutely wrong development.
    Absolutely wrong it might be but, not in Brussel’s mind set it isn’t.
    We will still all be discussing this in the New Year I feel somehow, how many times have we all said, ‘It surely can’t go on for much longer?’ It’s still going on….

    • Was he (Barroso) not prattling on about the creation of a European “empire” not so long ago? I recall a Youtube video where he liked the sound of “empire” so much that he repeated the word for maximum effect. Are you saying that the Maoists ambition for his European “empire” has now being whittled down to a federation? Empire or Federation one thing is for sure, it will not be in the slightest bit democratic.

      One of the main developments for me or at least it is a perception I have, even suspicion, is, that Germany believes it can significantly fashion much of Europe in its own likeness by virtue of the eurozone crisis. There is an element within Germany being led by Merkel that sees this as an opportunity for Germany to transplant monetary and fiscal policies across Europe. Then, we have wiedemann, Jurgen Stark and others who see this as a trap for the German people, a major loss for the German people, not just of Geld but of German sovereignty and culture being whittled away by the likes of Geithner, Bernanke, Obama and Goldman Sachs with their lackeys in Europe most notably Mario Draghi.

  4. Hi John – well if you truly believe what you say, then you could make a lot of money. Currently William Hill offer Germany at 12-1 to leave the Euro first, whilst Greece are 1-5. Maybe the bookies don’t read the Slog.
    Maybe I misinterpreted your artful prose – but do you really think that on balance Germany is more likely to leave the Euro before Greece????

    If so,I am happy to have a wager with you, that both countries will still be in the Euro by the end of 2012. (For charity – as other bets I have done on the Slog).

    • It may be coincidence that the early morning news (can’t remember which channel – sky I think) whilst I was dressing this morning actually mentioned a ‘newspaper’ snippet admitting the Germany is printing Deutchmarks….ig the MSM has actually mentioned this (and they are usually latecomers to the game) chances are that preparations for German exit are well progressed.
      At 12-1 you say – worth a tenner for a celebratory night out :)

  5. Hi John – well if you truly believe what you say, then you could make a lot of money. Currently William Hill offer Germany at 12-1 to leave the Euro first, whilst Greece are 1-5. Maybe the bookies don’t read the Slog.
    Maybe I misinterpreted your artful prose – but do you really think that on balance Germany is more likely to leave the Euro before Greece????

    If so,I am happy to have a wager with you, that both countries will still be in the Euro by the end of 2012. (For charity – as other bets I have done on the Slog).

    • Cronshd

      the big problem with leaving the eurozone – anybody that is – is the question of the markets. The first to jump will be crucified, quartered, sliced and diced then put through the mincer backwards. That is how the markets are in a situation like this – and nobody, which includes the Germans want to be the first.

      That means the eurozone stays together until it pops – or the USA/UK pops first. This is, after all, all about keeping the West afloat on funny munny.

      • Spain will go first, pushed by Catalonia and its drive for independence. This will bring the whole deck of cards crashing down, and the fingers can point at Spain.

      • Merriman

        who is pushing Catalonia? The US, perhaps? Is this their latest wheeze to take the eyes of the markets away from a yawning debt problem at home?

        There are more packs of cards balanced than you seem to imagine. Any modern economy is an extremely finely balanced system, and easily upset. That is the problem for those inside the eurozone: leaving it would be unsettling. To say the least.

    • Cronshd et al
      I apologise for being too assumptive on the verb ‘leave’. Really what I’ve been saying since Feb is that Berlin will quite the ezone we have NOW and create a new NordEurop one.
      The reason I think is simple: the electorate will force them to. But you’re right: the timescale is, er, indeterminate.
      Be careful about betting with me. In 2007 I took out a bet on a Coalition before 2012 at 34-1 with Paddy Power.
      Then I lost the betting slip.

      • An interesting point, and shared by those at the Daily Telegraph.

        I wonder at your faith in the electorates, though. Greece’s have shown all the alertness of – well, perhaps it is best not to go too far. The electorates of Germany and the Netherlands simply want to keep their jobs, if my neighbours and those I met recently in Germany are to be believed.

        The problem is not electorates, but those megalith markets that have no interest in anything save profit. They are far more dangerous than any electorate, for they care not what they destroy in their path. At least the electorate want to protect something.

      • Gemma: “I wonder at your faith in the electorates, though. Greece’s have shown all the alertness of – well, perhaps it is best not to go too far”

        I agree Gemma. Same here in Ireland, our brainless electorate did what we were told and voted the exact way that the powers that are impoverishing them asked them to.

  6. Does anybody still believe it’s the lazy Greeks who made it all happen? I wonder what history books, or rather wikipedia, will be writing about in a few years. A perfect title will surely be ”A diary of deception and distortion”.

    • Tassos, it is not your “lazy Greeks” – anyone who has been to Greece will attest that the Greeks are far from lazy. The problem is a failure in the democratic process. No Greek government since independence from the Turks has had the gumption to set up a sensible administration (it is much the same story in the US, by the way!). Taxing wealthy Greeks is as difficult as taxing wealthy Americans, and one wonders how both situations got so far off course.

      In Germany, wealthy people are taxed hard. With good reason.

      • Gemma, what bugs me is the size of things. There is nothing to convince me that such a small economy such as ours can destroy the whole world.There is also no way that noone saw it coming. It’s all planned from start to finish. Trouble is the scape goat gets beheaded in the process, i’m afraid.

      • Tassos

        I happen to agree with you – which makes the Greek government’s moves in not defaulting the more puzzling. Klaus Kastner has spoken on no few occasions about how the fear of repercussions stopped the Greeks from defaulting. Add that the EU high-ups refused advice on defaulting within the eurozone – which frankly stinks of American interference.

        It would have made waves, but not to the degree that the $6trillion “default” by the US which led to the credit crunch.

        The core issue remains however: inside or out, the Greek government still has not enough income from taxes. That is not only because it is being squeezed by austerity measures, but because the instruments for gathering taxes do not exist. Without that, they are in trouble.

    • Tasso i am sure you are not lazy and i know couple of others too that are not ,but one million greek public servants are malignantly lazy and get paid too .Clearly the Euro ranges from poorly designed to a fraud , add to this our multiple pathologies and we are done .

    • @William

      Presumably they will wait until they have wrung every possible penny there is to be wrung from the situation as they have been for some time. Whilst at the same time knowing that whatever bets they make the taxpayer will be forced to bail them out when they get it wrong.

      A year ago I remarked here that I could not see the markets bringing about a collapse because it would impact on them badly too. A year later it is apparent that the markets can do what they want, when they want and still not loose. So why would they bring about a collapse when they can continue to make money on the back of ‘rescue funds with silly names’?

  7. Sorry  for the repetition but it has to be digested by ALL and not only by the Hellenes.

    “The experiment and the guinea-pig “

    The crisis of Euro zone can be connected with her architecture, but it is registered in the wider frame not only of the international economic crisis, but also the tectonic changes in the international distribution of work, because globalization. The western political elite undertook him, because they are so much intermingled with the big companies of their countries that have the tendency to identify the interests of these companies with the interests of states.

    This, however, is not in effect. Because due to lower cost of work, the “western” multinationals have transferred their productive activities outside West. That is to say that they have deprives places of work from the Western societies and consequently they have deprived income from the western states.
    From mainly producer, the West progressively has been changed mainly to consumer, so that it devalues in decline. In other words, the current crisis has also permanent characteristics. When are in effect so much big differences in wage, labor relations and conditions of work, the free trade is changed in illicit competition. This is in effect more for Europe, which does not has the arms that the USA has, as politico-military superpower.

    The high profits of multinationals only partly return in the West and mainly as loans . Consequently, they cannot maintain for a long time the level of prosperity of western societies, which constitutes leading conquest in the human history. In these conditions, the problem of inter EU distribution of resources will be highly worsen . The very expensive rescue of banks blew the deficits and increased the debt of countries-member. Actually, however, the cost of rescue was the water that overflowed a glass, which depending with the country it was from half-full up to l full. The European countries for years they had begun to accumulate debts, despite the fact that the international economy was going through a period of “fat cows”.

    In this contributed also the tax competition that resulted to government income reduction of. In order to maintain the western governments elementarily medium standard of living and the social infrastructures, resorted to the lending, also drifted from the very low interest-rates. This resulted the public debts to follow an ascendant orbit.

    The answer of leaders elite is the austerity, with the known argument that the western societies live above their possibilities. In the point that they have reached the things, the argument is not always unfounded, but, as always the big lies uses the vehicle of half truth. They do not say that the devaluation of western economies in the decline was the result of the political elite choice and not a natural phenomenon.

    Given our given pathogenesis , Greece has been turned to a guinea-pig. Here is tested the recipe that is intended initially to be applied in the European peripheral region and later and in the European core.
    The critical question is if the European societies will accept not simply certain necessary cuts, but the systematic qualitative devaluation of their standard of leaving.

  8. You can cut it anyway you want, but the Euro is a disaster. The damn thing doesn’t work and never has. I have just returned from Greece and was dismayed by what I saw – deterioration since February. What I question is if Greece remains in the Euro just exactly when will her economy stabilise and just exactly what will be left of that economy ? Bugger all and damn all would seem to be the answer.

    • Disaster or not, it was one huge opportunity for Greece on entering. Sadly her politicos were taken in by American schmooze. They were taken in by the schmooze of the EU and the banks lending money. Just like people in the UK buying houses on flood plains, they made one big mistake, led astray by people whose motives were not those of the buyer.

      The Greeks had a chance on entering. They wasted it. This is the result. Any sensible person could have predicted what would happen with the commercialization of Asia – all the seeds were sown back in the 70s and 80s. That most took no notice is not the fault of Germany.

      The problem for Greece is that staying in the Eurozone is painful; leaving it will be equally painful, if not the more so. They had ten years to listen to the siren calls of fat bankers (of any nationality) and be wooed into thinking that borrowing to build bridges to nowhere was actually a good idea.

      • The problem is one of EZ salesmanship, the usual one-sided pitch that people swallow whole because they want to. I would not exonerate all the Greeks from blame for entering the EZ then, frankly, misbehaving. In fact I would not exonerate any Greek except the young and those at the very bottom of society who could not reasonably be expected to understand the political process that was taking place. The middle class are as culpable as the rich, being well educated but smaller scale opportunists. They saw a free lunch in the Euro, a sudden step up in their living standards that was (obviously) not based on any real increase in production or output. On the contrary, that happy step was financed by huge debts. Tanks were bought, and submarines. Why? A moment’s reflection and they would have known that it could not last, and inevitably the rich saw their opportunity and took it, to put it mildly. So the problem was a national ‘free lunch’ syndrome compounded by the usual Greek things of tax avoidance, deep corruption and a rapacious ultra-rich class. Their politicians are especially culpable because they could have made a start on much-needed reforms, but instead resorted to endless and ultimately fruitless squabbling. Their civil service deserves special odium for the volumes of laughably fictitious statistics that came from there, and their absolute resistance to essential reform, let alone a modest increment in competence. No doubt they threatened to reveal corruption; they would certainly know where the skeletons are. Does anyone know the real estimate of this year’s state deficit? Yes, but the civil service is keeping that a secret. Umpteen versions exist. Does anyone know the real size of last year’s deficit? Same answer. Such is Greece today, a farrago of lies, distortions and fast-widening social divisions. Tomorrow will be especially tough.

      • Carys

        the problems of divining the statistics you mention are not easy, even in a country as efficient as Germany.

        Just as an aside, the Americans use a statistical measure for inflation that does not tally with the mainland European ones – the Americans use “Hedonic” inflation measures. These are typically 1-4% lower than other, more sensible measures. This of course means they get to keep their precious AAA rating … !

        To be honest, the biggest problem Greece has, is that most of her get-up-and-go types got up and left in the 70s and 80s. They now live in Chicago or Melbourne. No wonder if they could not do business in Greece …

        Greece’s problem is one that should have been addressed in the fifties. Or perhaps the thirties? These problems are not new: they are however, exacerbated by the constricting effect of Eurozone economics.

      • Sorry Gemma, but you are wrong. Entering the Euro was a huge mistake because her economy wasn’t ready for such an adventure. I use to do business with a number of companies in Greece, all of which have either moved to Turkey or gone bust.

        The Euro is not an economic project but a political one. Yoking these divergent economies together was a recipe for disaster, and this was foretold by the Eurosceptics. It was also foretold by Bernard Connolly in his book ‘The Rotten Heart of Europe’.

        I often don’t agree with Wardy, but on this he is right: the easy solution is for Germany to leave the Euro. This would allow the new Mark to rise in value and the Euro to fall. If you think the present ideas are working I would suggest you think again.

      • Andy

        I did not say that the current policies were working. What I did say was that the Eurozone was holding together because of pressures from outside that are insurmountable.

        No small amount is from the US, by the way. Their banks have a lot of money to splash around the financial markets and are greedy for more.

        The euro was an opportunity for Greece: 3% interest rates??? A virtual AAA rating??? Come on! That their administration and government were taken in by the sweet-talking bankers did not help. They made the same mistakes that they had made for half a century beforehand.

      • Gemma,

        3% interest rates, AAA Credit rating, for Greece ! Yes that was part of the problem. Interest rates should have been more like 8-10% because (look at Ireland, Spain etc) it sparked a credit boom not only in the private sector but in the State. As to AAA that again was part of the problem. The markets were made to believe that a Greek Bond was just like a German Bond. They weren’t and never were. We now know Greek paper wasn’t even worth the value of the paper, so there was the con.

        But let me ask again my main point. Just exactly how much of the Greek economy are you prepared to sacrifice on the altar of the Euro delusion ? How much of the Greek economy will be lost before it is stabilised ? It is already down at least 20% and counting. And how on earth can this productive capacity ever be rebuilt ?

      • Andy

        The issue of 3% interest rates was central to my point. It was a double-edged sword, and Greece took the easy option. With a government unused to dealing with hard problems, it was easy to borrow money. Just imagine what German industry would have done with 3% interest rates – but then, the Germans have an administration and government that take firm action.

        The markets were not made to believe that Greece’s bonds were worth anything. The markets are not made to believe anything at all! That is the problem here: the markets are usually naive and poorly educated. The information was all there, and the markets simply ignored it. They chose to believe the “one currency, one economy” nonsense, and they swallowed it hook, line and sinker. They was had, good and proper.

        Who was it, by the way who rated Greece AAA? Was it the EU? Or privately held ratings agencies working for the best interests of their clients? Their lack of insight – typical of a bureaucrat by the way – was the problem here. The ratings agencies were handed figures on a piece of paper, and that was all they had. After all, they needed to base their reasonings on evidence – the problem as always is that such judgements cannot be based on evidence as narrow and fixed as the figures in a document. Especially if it has anything to do with Greece’s government.

        Let me ask you something in return: how much effort is the Greek government prepared to use in getting themselves out of a problem that they have never faced before? Remember that the problems in Greece – tax evasion and an administration that simply does not function – were all present in 2000. They did not deal with these problems because they could get away with cheap borrowing – one more avoidance of having to take decisions. Something the Greek government has been very good at since the Ottomans pulled out.

        The problem for the Greeks, as I mentioned earlier, is that leaving the Eurozone would throw them to the markets. They would have a feeding frenzy. The Greeks are scared of that, and with good reason. What is more, they can milk the EU for a long time before having to come to any decision that may need taking. That, after all, is the job of a government. The Greek government has been avoiding its responsibilities for too long, and has no experience of dealing with decisionmaking. The results are there for all to see. The Greek government will put its electorate through all it can stand before it has to actually do anything. The problem is not with the Euro – it is with Greece’s government, as it has been for the last four generations.

        If you want sensible suggestions on how to stimulate Greece’s economy, read Klaus Kastner’s blog http://klauskastner.blogspot.com

    • “The damn thing doesn’t work and never has.”

      Not entirely true Andy. It worked very well for Germany and even worked well for Greece and Spain et al, providing of course you count benefit to the privileged few as it ‘working’.

      The problem is the ‘milk cow’ has now run out of feed and so the tap runs dry. The victms are the ordinary citizens who never really understood (because they were never told) the truth of the situation in the first place.
      Still today they are manipulated sufficiently to fear an exit from the very cause of their misery. What chance does anyone have against mind control that efficient?

      • The victms are the ordinary citizens who never really understood

        Anyone living in Germany – or visiting as I have just recently – will see the consequences of the modern consumer economy. Wages in Germany have been hit hard, for the ordinary person. Where are the Plus that you find in Holland? In Germany they are replaced with Aldi’s and Pennymarkts, the down-market el-cheapo competition.

        Whilst French and Spanish workers were seeing wage increases, the Germans were suffering.

        As to milchcows, had Britain seen the opportunities that Germany had, there would have been praise indeed rather than scorn.

  9. There`s a general strike here tomorrow (Wednesday) along with the usual marches. I`m curious to see how strong the support for it is as its the first since the Three Stooges took the helm.
    As for the in/out protagonists I still think that some of the `in` crowd will not show their true colours until Obama is safe. One way or another it should all become clear before the end of the year……or sooner if world events elsewhere precipitate a crisis.

  10. Pingback: John Ward – Greece In Or Out : The Two Armies Are Face To Face – 25 September 2012 | Lucas 2012 Infos

  11. “… Objective of tyranny is to bankrupt the citizens, on the one hand, in order the guard of the regime to be maintained with their money, and on the other hand , the citizens to be occupied so no time to remain to them for scheming.
    To this result aims so much the imposition of high taxes, the absorption citizens fortunes , as well as the construction of big works that exhausting the state finances….”

    ARISTOTLE “POLITICS “

    They provoking us, that is their target.

    Hellas has 1,300,000 unemployed people increasing by hundreds per day, over 25% unemployment rate , and in the private sector there are 700,000 working people who they are not paid for over 4 -7 months. This can only get worse” certainly and not only for Hellas. I believe these are the things to come and not only for Hellas !!

    They saying that currently the climate has changed in favor of Hellas , o.k., but next day a new tax is announced i.e. . new wages cuts in the private and public sector, an new home tax …..etc , if this is not Gebelism what is it ?

    Europe has experienced two bloody World Wars, caused basically by economic crisis , I hope we will not watch the very same show in Europe with the very same leading actors.

    The Troika and our Troika Government have destroyed our economy and our society , it is obvious that their plan is to “ delete” Hellas and not to save us.

    There is no any kind of logic on what the Troika is asking to be applied on our society, taxes -new taxes -lower wages- no social health- new taxes……….

    The average working Hellene has no money left to pay this excessive burden of taxes which increasing every other week by the addition of a new tax , we are just trying to survive and provide to our families only what is essential.

    Currently our economy is dead nothing positive is happening , no positive news , cash is species at extinction .

    Certainly they punish us the simple Hellenes but our politicians ,these bums , thieves and traitors still in power supported by the European Political elite, however at the end , there it will be an end, I hope that all the deplorable Hellenic political elite and their collaborators will strictly punished for life.

    I believe that the “Sheppard drives the flock to the wrong way or to the right way “ and the ordinary Hellenes were black mailed by the EU Political Elite even by the World Political Elite to vote the same bums , thieves and traitors who have destroyed the country and they still black mailing us !

    Who was feeding with money all these ineffective Governments for the last decades with no control keeping all the unsustainable business with their collaborators ?

    Huge Defense equipment shopping, Olympic Games and other expensive and overpriced Public Works projects.

    Who is responsible for all these the ordinary Hellene ?

    Who did not know anything and he still knows nothing about the complete truth.

    Where were the EU institutions?

    Why they did not control and stop our corrupted Political Elite as they should , it was EU money wasted all these decades, and they had the right to do it at the time since we are within the EU and EZ.

    And all of them EU, IMF, Germany ,France,…. ………..They perform this “Gebelistic show” with contracting declarations and statements every other hour.

    Finally you see we the ordinary Hellenes we have to pay the “bill” and nothing is happening , at the moment ,to our corrupted Political Elite and to their collaborators .

    The opposition should have taken us out on the streets peacefully protesting for the destruction of our Hellas and our families future.

    When they will do it ? When all these deplorable measures go through the Parliament ?

    The Portuguese and Spaniards are on the streets shouting , “We will not allow you to destroy our countries” .

    All our politicians are traitors and collaborators , from the far left to the far right , could someone please name a patriot out of all of them ?

    Currently there is no hope and there is nothing to be lost for us and this the worst situation for “them” to face.

    We Hellenes we certainly have to change but this not the way , this the way to complete destruction and catastrophe of Hellas.

    The point is that we Hellenes we have to do it on our own.

    Whatever THEY will do to us I hope that they will not succeed to drive us to fight each other as it is seems to be their plan .

    We Hellenes have to wake up and peacefully get out on the streets asap to stop this destruction and not when our Hellas will be destroyed and when “starvation” will come for all of us.

    As far today’s strike I will not follow this filthy ΓΣΕΕ collaborator and traitor Panagopoulos and his gang.

    I hope that ALL Hellenic political will be excoriated and hanged at Syntagma Sqr.

  12. What a complete FRAUD and FARCE Merkel, Hollande, the EU, IMF, ECB and Dragi are: The EU and all its criminal politicians who created this entire financial mess have gone “Scott-free” without any one of them being held accountable or found guilty of fraud, theft and incredible misdeeds!

    Nothing will change in the EU with its corrupt politicians and Bankers and they will continue stealing EU citizen’s money, making the People the only ones responsible. Why has the EU Commission never asked Greek Politicians about the 200 billion Euros they have looted from the people and EU funds they stole and sent offshore and to Swiss banks?

    Because the Bankers & EU Commission is in on this game and absolutely corrupt… It is Pathetic… Time to tear the system down and start over… Stop voting for these horrible Criminal Politicians & jail the Bankers for financial fraud & get back citizens money!

  13. Apologies for my English !!!

    “… Objective of tyranny is to bankrupt the citizens, on the one hand, in order the guard of the regime to be maintained with their money, and on the other hand , the citizens to be occupied so no time to remain to them for scheming.

    To this result aims so much the imposition of high taxes, the absorption citizens fortunes , as well as the construction of big works that exhausting the state finances….”

    ARISTOTLE “POLITICS “

    They provoking us, that is their target.

    Hellas has 1,300,000 unemployed people increasing by hundreds per day, over 25% unemployment rate , and in the private sector there are 700,000 working people who they are not paid for over 4 -7 months. This can only get worse” certainly and not only for Hellas. I believe these are the things to come and not only for Hellas !!

    They saying that currently the climate has changed in favor of Hellas , o.k., but next day a new tax is announced i.e. . new wages cuts in the private and public sector, an new home tax …..etc , if this is not Gebelism what is it ?

    Europe has experienced two bloody World Wars, caused basically by economic crisis , I hope we will not watch the very same show in Europe with the very same leading actors.

    The Troika and our Troika Government have destroyed our economy and our society , it is obvious that their plan is to “ delete” Hellas and not to save us.

    There is no any kind of logic on what the Troika is asking to be applied on our society, taxes -new taxes -lower wages- no social health- new taxes……….

    The average working Hellene has no money left to pay this excessive burden of taxes which increasing every other week by the addition of a new tax , we are just trying to survive and provide to our families only what is essential.

    Currently our economy is dead , nothing positive is happening , no positive news , cash is species at extinction .

    Certainly they punish us the simple Hellenes but our politicians ,these bums , thieves and traitors still in power supported by the European Political elite, however at the end , there it will be an end, I hope that all the deplorable Hellenic political elite and their collaborators will strictly punished for life.

    I believe that the “Sheppard drives the flock to the wrong way or to the right way “ and the ordinary Hellenes were black mailed by the EU Political Elite even by the World Political Elite to vote the same bums , thieves and traitors who have destroyed the country and they still black mailing us !

    Who was feeding with money all these ineffective Governments for the last decades with no control keeping all the unsustainable business of them with their collaborators ?

    Huge Defense equipment shopping, Olympic Games and other expensive and overpriced Public Works projects etc .

    Who is responsible for all these the ordinary Hellene ?

    Who did not know anything and he still knows nothing about the complete truth.

    Where were the EU institutions?

    Why they did not control and stop our corrupted Political Elite as they should , it was EU money wasted all these decades, and they had the right to do it at the time since we are within the EU and EZ.

    And now all of them EU, IMF, Germany ,France,…. ………..they perform this “Gebelistic show” with contradicting declarations and statements every other hour, pushing all these deplorable measures day by day slice by slice , an excellent Gebelistic method to conclude the experiment and use the experience to rest of the EU.

    Finally you see we the ordinary Hellenes we have to pay the “bill” and nothing is happening , at the moment ,to our corrupted Political Elite and to their collaborators .

    The opposition should have taken us out on the streets peacefully protesting for the destruction of our Hellas and our families future.

    When they will do it ? When all these deplorable measures go through the Parliament ?

    The Portuguese and Spaniards are on the streets shouting , “We will not allow you to destroy our countries” .

    All our politicians are traitors and collaborators , from the far left to the far right , could someone please name a patriot out of all of them ?

    Currently there is no hope and there is nothing to be lost for us and this the worst situation for “them” to face.

    We Hellenes we certainly have to change but this not the way , this the way to complete destruction and catastrophe of Hellas.

    The point is that we Hellenes we have to do it on our own.

    Whatever THEY will do to us I hope that they will not succeed to drive us to fight each other as it is seems to be their plan .

    We Hellenes have to wake up and peacefully get out on the streets asap to stop this destruction and not when our Hellas will be destroyed and when “starvation” will come for all of us.

    As far today’s strike I will not follow this filthy ΓΣΕΕ collaborator and traitor Panagopoulos and his gang.

    I hope that ALL corrupted filthy Hellenic political elite, all the traitors and collaborators finally they will be excoriated and hanged at Syntagma Sqr.

    • Γιώργος

      I want to give you an example of how the Germans think. I was at a camping site last week, near Erlangen. It was as clean and as well appointed as any hotel. There were also some things to clean the place with.

      You were expected to use them.

      You couldn’t just go in, splash about and leave a mess for others to tidy up.

      You were expected to use the cleaning equipment to do a modest amount of sweeping away of the water. It doesn’t take long, and if everyone who uses the showers does so, it means it is nicer for everyone.

      That is how the Germans expected everyone to deal with the Euro. That the Greek government wilfully lied, cheated and mis-represented anything and everything they could was not expected. It was not appreciated. It is not appreciated.

      The Greek government were expected to deal with the Euro as adults. All they did was take off their nappies and wipe them all across the floor.

  14. Pingback: EUROBLOWN: German President signs off destruction of euro. | A diary of deception and distortion

  15. Pingback: Οι υπέρ και οι κατά του Grexit σε θέση μάχης | αἰέν ἀριστεύειν

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