UK PENSION REVOLUTION:

Enter the new stealth tax

Around 600,000 people are expected to be enrolled into a workplace pension scheme by the end of the year – that  automatically diverts funds from their pay packet.

The automatic enrolment scheme begins on 1 October and will mark one of the biggest changes to the pension system in the UK. A worker can opt out. But at age 65, he or she is going to starve, because there won’t be a State pension by then.

They will, however, continue being forced to cough up for National Insurance as well. Which, one day soon I’d guess, isn’t going to be much use if you get ill…and will pay out less as and when Britain’s vibrant economy unemploys you.

It will start with the largest firms, and then trickle down or something to the already investment-loan starved small businesses beneath. And workers will pay more – 25% more – than employers do.

The BBC’s penetratingly mordant analysis of the move is:

‘The aim is for more people to save for their retirement, rather than relying solely on the state pension’.

In many ways, I’m all for coercive retirement saving: it means everyone has to accept responsibility for being independent in the long term. But what’s happening here is simply another step in the process of impoverished sovereign Treasuries gradually retreating from their responsibility to provide a State pension.

If this was being done in a measured manner during the good times, to ensure everyone had a supplement above and beyond the ‘old age’ State Pension, I’d applaud that too. But it isn’t: the move is a shift of responsibility – and power – away from the State to big business….in the light of previous megabank bailouts and a ballooning National Debt making it a cast-iron certainty that the State pension will be abolished.

As with health provision, The Slog believes that retirement saving should indeed be taken out of State hands – but put into a ring-fenced mutual sector where it is safe from that safe pair of hands suddenly emptying the safe.

Well, that clearly isn’t going to happen. But as yet, what is going to happen (as with all things emanating from Camerlot) remains rather murky. How will the providers be regulated? What will happen to the folks who – thanks to long-term illness and neocon employment practices – end up unemployed from 40 to 65? Sorry, 70. Or will it be 80 by then?

It’s enough to make you weep. This isn’t the careful dismantling of a bloated State: it’s the accelerating attempt to kill a starving State – and ensure that its weaker citizens pay the insane bills run up by the 3% of MoUs at the top.

And these conclusions don’t make me a socialist: nothing could do that. They just make me a bloke who can see what’s coming down the road, and the obscene unfairness of it all.

A phrase one hears more and more these days is ‘the Law of unintended consequences’. What we’re getting more and more in the West now is laws with intended consequences.

Related: The biggest con-trick since Hitler’s Volkswagen

62 thoughts on “UK PENSION REVOLUTION:

  1. I have noticed recently that the rhetoric coming from the U S state department no longer mentions freedom and democracy. Mostly it is Democracy and The Rule of Law nowadays. We all know what sort of laws have been passed lately.

  2. That’s right, give your money to the boys and girls in the City to invest in derivatives and naked shorts for you. What could possibly go wrong?

  3. We already have forced retirement saving over here. When I came I asked if I had a choice as to where the money is “invested”. Sadly not. Given where I think stock markets are going medium-term, I’m considering it dead money and if I get even 10% of it back I’ll be mildly surprised…

  4. Pingback: John Ward – UK Pension Revolution : Enter The New Stealth Tax – 20 September 2012 | Lucas 2012 Infos

    • The new rate of unemployment if you consider the current revalations of other efficient bailout EZ austerity countries is 20 – 25%.

      Add little to no growth because nobody around the world really needs to purchase it because they can produce it for themselves and you are right not likely to create many new ones anytime soon.

  5. Start your own pension – buy physical silver. For starters buy silver coin. Not only is it a fascinating hobby to build a collection, but the very least it will do is keep pace with inflation. There is also an extra pleasure…the banksters and money men will hate your guts.

    • Alas, you are going to have to accumulate a rather big pile of coins to see you through retirement.

      I understand what you say – precious metals (in their tangible not paper form) hold their value – but unless the economic system completely fails then prices will always be manipulated to the benefit of the elite.

      If the economic system does collapse then guns and bullets will be the primary ‘bargaining tool’.

      • Manipulate fiat money or gold actually anything.

        The best thing is to equally balance it and anything else they would manipulate.

        That way your average remains.

      • A year or two bNack I bought some gold but mainly silver and I’m so glad I did. as i live in the USA I legally own several guns so accumulating ammo is no problem.

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  7. Absolutely spot on.
    I almost fell guilty that I’ll have at least some kind of pension when I retire and my father, bless him, should be feeling totally guilt ridden with his railwayman’s pension which is better per annum than many earn at their normal workplace.
    Our fall from first world to 2nd -and 3rd in parts- is accelerating as you say.
    Looking on the bright side though, when we drop far enough down the pan there will be a period of near full employment and plenty of 14 hours days for the children down the mines and up the chimneys, as we become more competitive for making things again.

  8. Well, that should make the recession (and GDP) even worse as consumers suddenly find less in their pay packet.
    Or it might cause national strikes as people demand wage increases to cover the loss.
    The state pension is already inadequate to live on. Poor pensioners should be eligible to claim benefits to help them survive. This is a long-term plan to abolish the state pension and get pensioners off benefits. The government is telling people that they had better look after themselves because we’ve destroyed the state finances bailing out banks that created huge losses many times larger than their capital base.

    • Agree with your point but where it falls apart, not your point but for them is this.

      A poor person cannot pay ludicrous taxes in VAT etc. or anything they purchase that has been taxed and save for a pension WHILST AT THE SAME TIME AS PAYING FOR THE BANK BAILOUT!

  9. Fine, make me pay for my own pension, but for god’s sake kill the massive mental state. 50% of gdp spending. Please flush this mental state down the toilet!

  10. Do we here in the UK not have a French moment-ever?Are we so unresolved to hold our elected leaders feet to the fire that they KNOW they can get away with this and more?I fear a revolution but I also fear the apathy that leads us into a dictatorship of Hooray Hernrys!

    • We could indeed rebel. Perhaps we should, but, as with France, the fundamentals are against us. The French will find out soon enough that their productivity, though superior to ours, will not support the solid pensions that their system has promised them. No amount of driving tractors up motorways will change the demographics of their state. Sarkozy knew that, but Hollande is playing a cleverer game to do with inflation and the usual governmental tricks to reduce the wealth of the masses.

    • @Maria. Nice thought, but taking to the barricades will be even more dangerous from now on. The EU has its very own militia to deal with uprisings. They will make PC Simon Harwood look like a pussycat in comparison.

      • ‘Rise like Lions after slumber
        In unvanquishable number –
        Shake your chains to earth like dew
        Which in sleep had fallen on you –
        Ye are many – they are few.’

        The Mask of Anarchy – Percy Bysshe Shelley (1819)
        written following the Peterloo Massacre at St.Peters Field, Manchester

  11. The problem is that the Welfare State always was a Ponzi scheme, predicated on perpetual growth and the presumed wealth of Britain.

    Well, we don’t have perpetual grwoth in this country or the EU(except in paper pushing)-and even when the Welfare State was created, Britain was bankrupt.

    • Seeing as I do not see poor politicians, bankers or any of their buddies like hunt it is a nice little way to skim vast sums off the top for your own use. Once you have cut and cut it again and Greece seems to be close to this now what you have left is the hardcore skimmer off the top.

      The political class on benefits is all that remanis.

  12. Jeremy *unt has ordered a fresh political assessment of controversial plans to shut hospital casualty units as one of his first acts as Health Secretary.
    His move will raise hopes of a reprieve for a number of accident and emergency departments threatened with closure as NHS Trusts cast around for savings.
    But it will alarm many doctors and hospital managers who argue that merging A&E units into larger, better staffed departments saves lives and frees up money to improve patient care in other areas.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hunt-paves-way-for-uturn-on-casualty-unit-closures-8157189.html

    I wonder what his angle could be? Maybe the merged A&E’s will not be as easy to flog off?

  13. If the future is as predicted by many apparently sane and wise commentators, including JW, then it won’t matter much anyway.

    Successive governments failure to address the state pension costs, both public and civil servant, have long been held a disaster waiting to happen. But if they had invested money for tomorrow instead of paying out today what they hope to collect tomorrow, those investments wouldn’t be worth any more than anyone’s, thus not a lot and becoming less by the day.

    Whether that would have meant different fiscal policies being forced upon them over the years, thus avoiding all of today’s problems I’m not clever enough to be able to work out, but it feels as though it should have done.

    That is until I think globally and realise that nothing we do has much influence on what happens elsewhere but the converse isn’t the case.

    So without sub prime and fractional reserve banking madness would we have just staggered on for another few years before we ended up in the same place anyway? Thus everything is a cycle, it just depends how quickly it revolves.

    Dunno.

    • I’m not sure about this concept of investing massive funds to finance future pensions. Others with financial systems that are less spectacularly self-interested than ours have studied this whole matter in depth and decided that the only way for it to work at a national level is for each generation to pay for the pensions of the previous one via a structured state pension wealth transfer. On the whole, Europe works that way. It works fine until we find we have too many old people for the younger generation to support, which is where we are now. Given that we can’t (and shouldn’t) borrow any more and that the upcoming generation has its hands full with student loans and massive mortgages, the answer would seem to be the reduction or abolition of the state pension, which is exactly what JW is saying. Also, substantial changes to the disposable incomes of all except the very rich will cause a further recession due to lower consumer spending. We have a small and shrinking revenue pot and fast growing demands. That is not a recipe for future calm.

      • @ Carys

        Yes I see all that and the uncertainty about what is and isn’t the answer. I actually find that sort of reassuring because it tends to reinforce the idea that there isn’t a solution, except reset. Much more calm to be lost before that gets to the head of the government topics to be discussed list.

      • It is, in the current economic climate, an insoluble problem.

        Financial greed drives the unsustainable machine that generates profit from one end while the costs of production (which ultimately translates to wages) are continually reduced at the other. They forget that the wages they reduce at one end are used to buy the goods that generate the profit.

        Consumer capitalism is broken. The accelerated drive for growth has inflated prices and reduced jobs and salaries to the point at which the citizenry can no longer to buy product at the rate required to sustain growth. Business lacks the mental finness to apply any solution other then redundancy and price increases – which only serves to compund the problem.

        We do need a reset, where prices are reset to a level commesurate with wages. This will stimulate demand, which will stimulate production, which will stimulate employment – the cycle repeats ad infinitum.

      • @ Carys

        Maybe then it’s high time to take seriously Martin Amis’ idea of installing euthanasia booths on every corner. He prefers they provide one good stiff drink before the good-by injection — otherwise I suppose he’d be in opposition to such contrivances. Nice to be principled, I suppose.

    • Your point hits this concept. We should have developed out own economy and balance to provide for ourselves whatever anybody else does. This has not been done and now we look around the world hoping somebody saves our bacon and they are ALL in the same position like India ministers wanting europe to keep consuming. The UK seems to look to the USA to dig us out of the hole whereas we should be doing this for ourselves.

  14. Yes, and to make things worse, the current bunch of manipulators are trying to portray the proposed rise in the UK state pension to £140/week as an increase! (If you are below retirement age now, as those above will stay on the old scheme.) If it looks like an increase, waddles like an increase, it must be an increase… (hint – see pension credits).

  15. It’s ok… I will just save for retirement by investing in the ever reliable financial markets ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!!! I am set for the future… land, a tractor that runs on veg oil. and a fresh water supply… that is a retirement plan appropriate for the future.

  16. We have had the self funded superannuation racket here in OZ for some time now, near on a decade and half. Introduced by a Labour government and it subsituted wage rises for employer contributions instead fixed at 9% of salary. The aim was to weed the punters of the aged universal pension which has been subjected to increasingly savage means testing to make it hard to get unless your stone broke when you retire. The next happy event that follows is that the steadily rising age of being able to claim the aged pension which means you spend all your money first get to 70 and you might be eligible (who knows what rule changes and policy changes will happen over this period as the are so fond of parrotting – Going Forward).

    The killer in the Aussie scheme and which in principle I was in favour of, self funded retirement is not such a bad idea, the killer was that first you had no choice other than a designated fund and for the past decade you had no choice and were put into a fund the employer nominated, whether you liked it or not, in other words dumped right into the shark pond with all the liars, sleazes, schemers and dopey city types who fleeced us all. I knew an astute shark like individual who reckoned it was the greatest bonanza for grifters and liers like him to pillage the funds of the majority. He was right. My experience of the past ten years was that all the monies deposited were tied to the share market it so it went up and down along with recent financial and banking events and even when the funds generated a negative return (lost your dough through astute decision making of the bollocky herd variety) they got to charge you management fees as well thus magnifying the losses, so in ten years my employer deposited my hard earned cash into a major fund run by well know insurance company (demuatualised) and they pissed it up against the wall and I could nothing about it, not a bloody thing. Ten years of savings absolutely wasted.

    The reality is anyone between the ages of 45 and 65 will not have sufficient funds to invest when they retire to live off and the capital they do have would go very quickly in a few short years, they will then get the Centrelink or social secutiry nazis to deal with and get nothing anyway. It is a pretty grim situation that faces a very large proportion of the working populace. As for the youngsters well they don’t have to worry in the long term it will all be alright, the favourite mantra of investment types.

    Oh and the latest changes now shift the blame for crap performance away from the Governent and the funds for the crap investment decisions and protect the employer. You now carry the risk as now you have to choose which fund to invest in and suddenly after a life as common blog be expected to come up to speed with the shenanigans of the sharks, well they are all the same, liars, cheats and without principle or honour and you would have been better putting your money put in a savings bank deposit book as it would do bette, except your not allowed to do that and their are no approved savings accounts for you to use, so you have to shovel it across to institutions to make a fortune on the margin from bonds and charge you for failing to make it work and lose your dough.

    Biggest load of bollocks I have ever experienced.

    • Good points Mike.
      As a further warning to UK readers I can point out that if you have more than $800,000 in your super fund in Oz, you receive no (zip) government pension. Eight hundred thousand might seem a lot, but with investment returns at around 4% pa that amounts to about £20,000 investment income a year before you start to run down your capital.
      Also, as an expat, having contributed to National Insurance for half my life, I am informed that my UK ‘pension’ is £47 per week. The joke is on me.

      • and frozen if you stay in Oz. Ditto Canada and all parts of the Commonwealth where UK people actually go. But indexed if you go to Europe, the US, Philippines etc.

  17. JW,

    Do you wonder, along with me, when the Pension co. who failed to invest your funds wisely or anywhere near RPI say on crystallisation of your said pension that they have ‘bought an annuity for me’?

    Does this mean there is a ring fenced pot of loot (annuity) that will, in all circumstances provide you with the monthly pension however long you live?

    Being a sceptic I worry that this ‘annuity’ actually exists, as I along with many others availed myself of a guaranteed near 10% annual return when I purchased my various pensions, as I aim to hang around this mortal coil for many a long year, just to annoy my pension co,, I fail to see how my said ‘crystallized pension pot’ being able to pay out say a further 30+ years of 10%.

    If the pension co fails (I think this is a realistic event) is their a real ring fenced pot of money there to fulfil my expectations, I doubt it.

    I know there is an industry insurance fund but it is severely underfunded in another GFC scenario with multiple failures.

    After this ramble my simple question is, is there a real hypothecated pot of money aka Annuity with my name on it? Does anyone know?

    • Don’t know exactly, but there must be firms which will offer to insure your annuity, for a price. Leaves you with two questions rather than one, but it might add to your sense of security.

      • Geo,

        Thanks, but when I crystallized my pensions I asked the dreaded IFA if their were better options in the market, he just laughed, that has made me worry ever since, I heard on the radio that annuities are now down to 4% and I am getting still 10%, I guess I’ll have to enjoy it while it lasts until they come out with a ‘new’ rule to change the game and negate the 10% and give me market rates for my benefit!

  18. My wife is being asked to join this scheme (free money they say) I have told her to avoid it like the plague she simple does not earn enough or have sufficient time to generate a pot which will be worth anything (but will prevent her getting any benefits in the twenty or so years time she is due to retire).

    They must think we are completely stupid

    • This is indeed the big unanswered (and probably unanswerable) question in the UK. Why work and save when the state will remove it all to pay for your care home when you are old? Spend it all now and the state has to pay. And always will, as you can’t have 85 year olds in the streets, begging. At least not in the winter…

      • They do in Russia, plus a lot of third world countries.
        We won’t have Euthanasia, just carry on working till you drop with exhaustion. The be put into the New State Institution [Work-House].
        Remember when the State Pension [Ponzi] Scheme was set up most plebs died at 55-60 and got their pensions at 65. This meant it was self-funded by those poor sods who never made it. Now work till you are 70-75 before getting your pension and it will be self-funded again as most plebs die out 65-70. [Simple]

    • In one simple paragraph Jason identifies the fatal flaw in the whole concept of the welfare state in that it rewards selfishness at the expense of the selfless.

      Jason, the reason your wife should pay into this latest attempt to get people to look after themselves rather than expect others to pick up the tab is to eradicate the ‘I’ll lose my benefits’ metality that crushes the original concept of the welfare state under the weight of undeserving expectation.

      The following extracted from Wikipedia highlights a quote from T E Utley, that is even more appropriate today: –

      [Critics of the welfare state claim that, in relieving citizens of personal responsibility for their own welfare, the government has inadvertently encouraged irresponsible and immature attitudes, with the result that squalor, ignorance, and idleness are common. In 1980, T. E. Utley, wrote that the welfare state was "an arrangement under which we all largely cease to be responsible for our own behaviour and in return become responsible for everyone else's. The temptations which this way of doing things offers to synthetic anger, fraudulent penitence, all other forms of hypocrisy and the sheer evasion of duty are infinitely too strong for fallen man".]

      JW is correct to weep over where we find ourselves, however his focus on the top percentage of the population ignores the abuses engaged by the shite at the bottom.

      • I am in no way suggesting a benefits mentality, we have both worked all our lives from age 16 and have never had a single penny from the state despite having or will pay hundreds of thousands of pounds in Tax and NI between us. All I am saying is she will literally throw her money away and be left without even a state pension (which she has more than paid for) by dint of having a small private pension pot.

        Me I am advocating leaving the UK but she is yet to be pursuaded.

      • I would agree with you Monk if it were not for the fact that I have a very strong feeling that the only people who will benefit from this new scheme will, again, be the bankers (and their ex-cabinet board members).

        Just taking the contributions and putting them under the bed means they will reduce in value as a natural effect of inflation. They have to be invested in order to generate profit. But of course, those who will be put in charge of that investment will be incompetent and totally unaccountable. The only thing they will care about will be how much they can take out for their personal gain without attracting too much criticism.

        I have always tried to be a fair and selfless member of society – trying to do the right thing for the greater whole than for me personally – and time and time again I have got royally shafted. I am lucky in that I have always escaped without too much damage, but nowadays I am re-evaluating my priciples because they simply are not working.

        In life there are sheep, shepherds and wolves – and this shepherd is starting to think that unless the sheep start getting their shit together and lend a hand then the fight against the wolves is going to be unwinable.

      • “‘I’ll lose my benefits’ metality that crushes the original concept of the welfare state under the weight of undeserving expectation.”

        I think you are wrong about this because the people who have that mentality have up to now have been those determined to get their keep from the State whilst doing nothing. Jason and his wife don’t fit that criteria. So if they are now starting to question the purpose of saving and paying your way, you need to ask why the change. They aren’t alone.

        It may be that the State has systematically betrayed those people who are in the middle busy propping up those below and fighting for survival from those at the top.

        It may be that there comes a time when against your instincts but in line with your exhaustion levels you say to yourself ‘ oh what’s the point, bollox to them’. After the rank dishonesty of ZIRP and QE, I’m only surprised there aren’t more saying it. Perhaps there will be in time.

      • @Full Stop – we have a serious problem in the UK in that the population cares little for politics and even less for finance. Many, if not most, think they are secure in their present situation and that the government is benevolently looking after them. If you did a properly structured survey of the understanding of our electorate of the QE events that have occurred, let alone ZIRP, I don’t think you would find all that many who have even heard of these disasters, let alone understand their significance. It would be nice if the teaching profession could explain them to their students. One can dream…

      • One major contributing factor is that we allow the same ‘voting value’ to those who pay into the pot as those who claim from it.
        Maybe everyone should get 10 votes, then gain an extra vote for every £1,000 paid in direct taxes, but lose one vote for every £1,000 claimed in benefits, down to a minimum of 1 vote (we are a democracy, after all).
        Bet that would shake up the results from Liverpool and Bradford West.

  19. It all becomes more tolerable if you accept the fact that we are now a third world banana republic (with nary a banana).
    A corrupt and incompetent leadership, an institutionalised bribe-system for everything you do (£60 parking ticket, make it £30 if you don’t contest it; pay us a £20 bribe and you can get on a plane; pay us an £8 bribe and you can use your credit card; pay us a bribe and you can get your planning permission quicker); a look-the-other-way media and justice system; and a broken educational philosophy (and no competitive sport).
    So don’t worry about your pension, you won’t get it.
    Our future is soup kitchens and foreign aid (inward that is).
    Perhaps also approved or tolerated sedative drugs, inc. TV.

    I saw 5 minutes of a programme called deal or no deal yesterday. A group of people with no connection to each other, except that they all hoped for a chance to win the money, collectively willed success on some poor soul reaching for a gift. The trick was, he (it was a he this time) had no control over whether he won 1p or £250k, but he could accept a pay-off as the game unfolded and various sums between the two extremes were removed. The be-quiffed and smug (but caring) Noel Edmunds was to be found as master of ceremonies.
    I lost the will to live at the point the poor victim’s wife told him he would be going home on his own if he didn’t take £20,000 on offer. (£250k was still temptingly in reach) Perfectly nice and deserving people, perfectly excellent prize, but sickening spectacle.
    If that ain’t the third world, I don’t know what is.

    By the way, I might be very happy with £20k too. I am not so high and clear and could probably demean myself up to a point I suppose.

  20. The financial sector hijacked the pensions money. Almost all of the pot * you saved for 40 years and which funds your annuity will not reach you, they keep it and effectively fund your monthly pocket money from the interest and growth. If their fees are too high, and their investment savvy deserts them, you won’t be getting much surprise, surprise.
    It was never intended for you, it was for the City.

    * I think you can cash in 25% on retirement to clear your mortgage or whatever, but the rules say you can’t have what was yours.

  21. I think the scale and speed with which our ‘to date’ way of life, and the expectations that it will keep going the way it has over the last many decades, is changing is just completely lost on most people. But I do sense in those I know an unease which may just, belatedly, become awareness.

    Awareness is such a narrow thing though. So many feel they definately have a handle on what is going on, when in reality they haven’t got a clue.

    For example, do you think It would be possible for a category 3 hurricane to track for 4 days just offshore up the east coast of the United Staes (just far enough away not to cause weather onshore), without anyone knowing? A major hurricane, as unpredictable as they can be, without it being reported anywhere in the US at the time? Well that’s what happened in the days up to 9/11. Yes, that’s correct, on the day 3 major buildings, (how many people still think there were only 2 buildings that came down?) we’re destroyed, a category 3 hurricane was just offshore from New York..

    Don’t believe it? Spend an hour watching this on YouTube and find out what else you didn’t know about that day, curtesy of an extremely well qualified scientist, Dr. Judy Wood. (copy and paste the whole link)

  22. The UK Government could save several Billions if it only allowed basic tax relief (if applicable) with a maximum of say £30 K per annum on all pension contributions.

    • @ Altergoman

      It would save billions more if it stopped providing aid to countries with their own space program, stopped treating everyone from anywhere in the world for free on the NHS, reduced gold plated pensions for Sir Humphries, got out of the EU, stopped MP’s freeloading on expenses, stopped paying millions for consultants and sacked all the gravy train professional quango trouphers and controlled immigration to levels that matched resources.

      What are the chances do you think? (Is that laughter I here echoing through the ether?)

  23. I remember a few years ago listening to a minister of pensions on radio 4 after the then labour government had shelved another paper on the pension black hole.He suggested that some of us naughty people who go out on a Friday and Saturday night,having a drink,meal and enjoying ourselves,might like to think again about wasting this money.saying we would be better off putting this money into a pension otherwise the government will have to make it compusory.WTF.!!!!!!!!! i have paid into a compulsory pension scheme for 40 years,the one run by the UK gov. and if it is not good enough,Why isnt it? Uk gov is running it.People who expect a pension have been in the system for the best part of 65 years,surely that is long enough even for the government to work out the costs,etc.

  24. Apart from the comments made previously about how the OZ self funded superannuation panned out here is what else they will do.

    To encourage punters to contribute more they will bring in income tax concessions for additional cash contributions. Now, this will have limits naturally always upper ones so thr top 1 percent will obtain huge tax benefits and your average punter ziilch. The current tax cost in OZ for this wizardry is some tens of billions of dollars, again a leg up for the extremely wealthy not the averages investor. So your average outer suffers further loss of government services and other community work as the tax concessions to the rich multiply. This of course supported by the well off Canverra mandarins and other mouth pieces for business types.

    What is buried in all this philosophically is the view of neocons and rich alike that the poor being stupid (that’s why their poor obviously) need to be told what to with their money and so this attitude permeates everything to do with self funded superannuation.

    Now the elephant in the room is redemptions of funds, I have always had the view that because of age demographics etc when it comes time to redeem said super investments that it will not be possible as you would collapse the financial and investment system throu outflows. Hey presto, there. Will be limits on redemption of funds and given the proven track record of the financial industry fans they will probably lose most of your money anyway fast claiming that is the way again vestment and risk work. To my mind. A sovereign wealth fund model to pay returns would be better or simply to just supplement the consolidated revenue outgoings for pensions. Fat chance of that happening.

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