US LIBYAN EMBASSY MURDERS: Clinton’s foreign policy blown away

Today’s violent deaths have laid bare the superficial idiocy of Hillary Clinton and David Cameron when it comes to extreme Islam in the Middle East

On July 29th, The Slog posted:

‘Just as Clinton, Geithner and Obama decided to bet the farm on German hegemony in Europe, now she and the Black Dude are hell-bent on putting all their chips behind Sunni Muslims in general, and the Muslim Brotherhood in particular.’

I also added that the right wing of the GOP ‘began to have serious doubts about whether Clinton knew WTF she was doing when Washington and NATO piled in with financial and air-cover support for the Libyan revolutionaries who toppled Muammar Gadaffi. The Christian Right in particular ( a very powerful interest-group within the GOP) is now becoming increasingly voluble about State’s refusal to condemn Sunni atrocities, and denialism about wholesale Brotherhood actions against non-Sunni rebel groups and Syrian Christians.’

Over time, this site has also condemned the Foreign Office and David Cameron for its naivety in dealings with the Islamist Erdogan, the bonkers support for Libyan rebels, and pathetically short-trousered ideas about ‘The Arab Spring’.

On the latest Syrian escapade, I concluded: ‘the idea that anywhere ruled by Sunni Islamists could ever be safe for Christians and Shi’ites is just plain daft.’

What happened before and during today’s Libyan atrocity was this: an anti-Islamist movie slot was posted on Youtube, not only depicting Mohammed but daring to suggest he might have been sexually active and warlike.The movie was written and shot by Sam Bacile, a 56-year-old California real estate developer who identifies himself as an Israeli Jew. It was promoted by an anti-Muslim, Egyptian Christian campaigner in the United States.

Maybe Sam Bacile should change his name to imbecile. But either way, as they say, ‘No people were harmed in the making of this movie’.

Already miffed by not being part of the arrangements in Egypt and Libya, anti-Muslim Brotherhood factions stormed the US Embassy and killed the Ambassador. However, both the Libyan police and the Brotherhood seemed quite happy about it. This quote stands out for me as an example of frighteningly calm illogic:

‘”This is a very simple reaction to harming our prophet,” said a bearded young protester, Abdel-Hamid Ibrahim.’

With that casually lunatic approval of rogue international murder, Mr Ibrahim lays bare the puerile nature of Clintonian/State Department foreign policy in the Middle East.

There can be no ‘backing winners’ when it comes to fundamentalist Islam of any hue. Islamists recognise no sanctity of human life, no religious tolerance, no criticism at all of their way of life, no laws beyond Shariah, and no rights for women. You can back Germany in the EU civil war, you can sign a cease-fire with the IRA, you can meet and come to a rapprochement with the Vietcong: but you cannot come to any kind of accommodation with religious maniacs.

We have had nigh on forty years to get hold of this reality now. During that time there has been a steady stream of Useful Idiots in the West convinced that they could reach out to, or even forge an alliance with, radical Islam. The delusional conviction continues to this day, exemplified by naive sympathisers with Mahmood Ahmadinnejhad – a man who was among the youthful security extremists who took American hostages in the early 1970s, and effectively toppled President Carter.

Iran is nowhere near having a nuclear weapon, but the idea that it doesn’t want one with which to vapourise Israel is a denial of almost every sentiment that emerges from Tehran. Those who refuse to deconstruct or even listen to those statements are every bit as daft as those who didn’t bother to read Mein Kampf during the 1930s.

Speech to Holocaust Conference, 12th December 2006: “The trend for the existence of the Zionist regime is downwards and this is what God has promised and what all nations want…Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out”.

Interview with the Fars News Agency, June 3rd 2007: “With God’s help, the countdown button for the destruction of the Zionist regime has been pushed by the hands of the children of Lebanon and Palestine . . . By God’s will, we will witness the destruction of this regime in the near future.”

Remarks made and approved by Iranian Official News Agency, May 8th 2008…the 60th anniversary of Israel: “Those who think they can revive the stinking corpse of the usurping and fake Israeli regime by throwing a birthday party are seriously mistaken.”

Speech in Southern Iran, March 11th 2010: “With God’s grace, the Israeli regime will be annihilated, and other regional nations will be rid of its bad omen”.

Recorded interview with French journalists, September 9th 2012: “Why is it that world leaders are still sensitive to and emphasize the Holocaust? Politicians normally don’t pay significant attention to history and the past.

In the final analysis, however, the action in Libya is a reality check for that hopelessly worn-to-death American foreign policy belief in the possibility of a deal with any psychopath, just so long as it serves American business, energy and Dollar interests.

It will come to play against Clinton and Obama in November, but any ideas harboured by American voters (or Dan Hannan) that Romney would produce American diplomacy of greater coherence and morality is the naivety of babes in arms.

The American ambassador to Libya has paid for State Department folly with his life today, and every caring human being should be sad about that. But the greater lesson to be learned by the West is this: you face a mad, censorious and barbaric schism of religious fanatics. Deals are not a possibility…..and any belief in degrees of ‘hardlineness’ are doomed to inevitable disabuse.

Related: UK Foreign Office slumbers on as Middle East tensions rise

Footnote: British Foreign Secretary William Hague had this to say today: “The UK stands ready to assist the Libyan authorities in any way we can and to support their efforts to continue the path towards a stable and secure Libya that fulfils the aspirations of the Libyan people.” The Libyan authorities stood by and watched it happen, you shiny-headed clod.

 

75 thoughts on “US LIBYAN EMBASSY MURDERS: Clinton’s foreign policy blown away

      • Frankly I have a problem with this too…..having worked in a London University with no less than 57 different first languages and where young intelligent muslem women students would sit in my seminars debating their view of how images are deconstructed in their own culture alongside Jewish, Greek, Turkish and American students…..how can I possibly see this sort of outright bigtory without a very heavy heart. Everyone in my lectures really rejoyced in the freedom to openly debate their views and learn to recognise the baggage from their background that they were dragging to my lecture room table.

        My two children have been brought up to be ‘Good Little Athiests’ which means that they have been seriously exposed to most of the worlds major religions, have debated with their teachers and with my wife and I and have, at 23 and 18, reached thier own very informed conclusion.

        Just because I do not believe a religion is no reason not to respect someone who does….as an athiest I sometimes envy people who have such an undeniable faith…..but burning someone else’s bible simply to insult them is both deplorable and mindless

        What JW is discussing here is a religous intollerance that can never be reconciled and becomes an abhorant violence. Neither Mrs Clinton or the perptrators of these events are on the same planet as each other…….the polarization of this intolerance can and will ultimatly destabalise the lives of everyone on this planet.

      • Your Honor; If the wife would ‘just do what I want her to do’… I’d stop beating her!

        under Christianity – I go to jail for beating her
        under Sharia’h law – if she doesn’t smarten-up we’ll join-in and stone her to death

        Whoflungdung – it isn’t hate v/s hate; it’s doctrine v/s freedom

  1. ‘the idea that anywhere ruled by Sunni Islamists could ever be safe for Christians and Shi’ites is just plain daft.’

    something Greece has known about Persian’s/Ottoman’s/Middle East for about 2500 years… but Amnesty and other “human rights” groups scold us for ridding our country of these criminals! (I don’t see them standing up for the rights of Greeks… subjected to international interventionist poverty creation policies and forced to starve, and die from lack of health care).

  2. Put simply, the values which held up when it was ‘started’ are the same now and will always be so. Purely because anyone who even hints at a question about its belief sytem or teachings is condemned immediately as a blasphemer and immediately put to death by a mob. Anybody not showing their piety by joining in (or suggesting that maybe some factual evidence be produced) would in turn become another blasphemer and on and on it goes. A good system for maintaining a belief system which cannot be questioned…..as it obviously works well. With no significant progress over the centuries………..the proof is in the eating and on TV screens around the world…………or not as the controlling influences would have it.

    • Just like Christianity 500 years ago, which is pretty appropriate since Islam is about 500 years younger than Christianity.

      It has long been obvious to me that religion, including paganism, is a political construct designed to elevate the elite and impose control on others, even before politics was invented.

      One point of John’s I would not agree with; “…. but the idea that it doesn’t want one with which to vapourise Israel ….” For me the primary target is Saudi Arabia, just as Kuwait was only a staging post on that road for Saddam Hussein. If one of the big three, Syria, Iran or Iraq, could gain control of Saudi Arabia a pan Middle Eastern hegemony is assured, control of a large chunk of world oil supply would emasculate the West and then Israel could be effortlessly purged. That is the grand plan I think they see.

      • You talk about Christianity, and say “to elevate the elite and impose control on others”. However, if you look at the bible you will see that Jesus said that when a Roman soldier compelled you to carry his kit for a mile, to instead carry it for two. (Matthew 5:41)

        If you go back to what was written 2000 years ago, you will see that what is practised under the name of Christianity falls far short of how it started.

      • Well Jon, I would say that proves my point. The quote you give translates as: Obey authority and demonstrate your willingness to do so, or your willingness to docilely accept imposition.

        The point I was making is there was just as much bigotry, screams of blasphemy and intolerance against those of no or different belief in the Christian world of 500 years go as there is in the Islamic world of today. And quite frankly there are just as many Christians ready and willing to commit atrocities today as there are Muslims. The difference is, being Christian in the West is no longer mandatory and the religion no longer has a major influence on government or is given parity with the legal code while the opposite is true for Islam.

        I won’t say any more or respond to other comments, to argue religion is futile. Just remember that I have as much right to not believe as others do to believe.

      • @Peter C. With respect, Peter, paganism is one religion that emphatically does not align with politics or the status quo. Although you don’t mention it by name, Buddhism in its pure form is apolitical too. Shakyamuni explicitly told us to challenge and investigate His words for ourselves.
        These two faiths, and others like them, may well prove to be our way out of these days of endarkenment.

      • @ MaxC

        I do not like using the word political when I wrote the comment, which is why I added “even before politics was invented”

        It seems plain to me that religion has its roots in the lack of both control of and an understanding of environmental change among early humans, perhaps even among their predecessors. It is not known if humanity in its hunter-gatherer stage had much in the way of religion, they probably did in the sense of attributing luck, good and bad, to some outside influence. However, once humanity became farmers there came a greater need to manage their environment and a need for a body of knowledge so that they knew either to time events or the times and conditions for certain events to naturally occur. This gave birth to the ‘expert’ classes who knew the answers. Unfortunately for them they also had to have answers for when unexpected events occurred. Weather for instance, at the wrong time could destroy an early settlement in any number of ways, some quick, so slow, or make life good or bad for a while and so on. The unfortunate ‘experts’ were then expected to provide controls to predict or control the essentially unpredictable, given their lack of knowledge. Thus was religion and priesthood born, already catering for its own elite and eventually creating governance.

        For me the likely progression to modern religion is that various moralities and philosophies were mixed in, all intended to help the community, at least initially, by guiding and controlling how people lived and laboured in their day to day lives. That is the politics I meant. Religion in itself is not evil, not even Islam. It is unfortunate that it was a religion birthed in a very hostile environment where few resources were available and tolerance of the unorthodox was not much of an option, Islam simply reflects that. Religion is, however, a very useful tool for the unscrupulous and those who wish to dominate others, something I am sure was realised very early in its existence, given Man’s nature.

        We should be a mature enough species now to dispense with religion, we understand our environment for the most part and most of us realise that hailstorms at harvest time or early frosts are bad luck, not the consequence of our immorality or the capriciousness of a god. Moral and philosophical standards could adequately guide us without the need for religious dictatorship based on unsubstantiated revelation, which most are, but that is just my opinion. I certainly wouldn’t like to insist anyone else simply accept it.

      • Peter C. agree. Man made god in his image.
        Look within,that message isn’t pushed much by religion, they say do what we say or it’s damnation.
        IF I went to heaven and someone I loved was sent to hell, then I could not be in heaven.
        If nothing else, life is an experience.

  3. So the people who were propelled to power in Liibya by the US, UK and France have now turned nasty and taken it out on Hillary’s ambassador Chris Stevens and three of his staff?
    In the words of Battery Sergeant Major Williams from “It Ain’t Half Hot Mum”… “Oh Dear, How Sad, Never Mind…..”
    Kennyboy

    • I’m afraid I must agree with this sentiment, callous as it sounds. It is in fact excellent news that the political establishment have lost one of their own, as it’s probably the only thing that will make our arrogant political class actually question WTF thay are doing. In the same way that immigration policy would change radically if MPs were forced to live next door to Somali asylum seekers, the loss of a few diplomats would clarify a few thoughts regarding foreign policy. The longer the political classes are insulated from the sheer folly of their actions, the longer the current mess will continue.

      • Unfortunately these people were expendable and those like them always will be, this will be used as usual to push the western agenda that is now getting a bit on the tedious side. Arent these so called terrorists (Orwellian talk for those that oppose tyranny) the very same that Washington are backing in Syria!

      • Many of our craven UK career politicians have always bent over backwards to appease a vocal Islamist minority whose often-offended sensibilities demanded special treatment.
        Now the media and journalists also acquiesce to this bullying:-
        ‘Having taken security advice, C4 has cancelled a planned screening of Historian Tom Holland’s programme, ‘Islam: The Untold Story’.’
        I wonder whose security advice they took. The police said they don’t know about it.
        Channel 4 also commissioned a NOP poll of British Muslims for Dispatches. It would seem the ambitions of your average ‘Mo’ on the street doesn’t seem to be that different from any ‘Joe’ who doesn’t have some God-bothering agenda: They want to be able to live in peace, earn a living, and feed their families.
        http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

        I have a problem with mass immigration though, and experience high levels where I live. Bumping into my MP, some time ago, I asked him why we have so many. His reply was ‘To boost tax credits. We have an ageing population whose pensions the present contributions cannot support.’
        By the time I had thought this through, and wondered how we finance this next generation of claimants, he had gone back to his party.
        ‘Kicking the can’ is not an accurate metaphor. ‘Rolling a snowball’ would be better; it includes the growing mass and effort required to keep going.

        We British enjoy our holidays abroad and are interested in local culture. Do we need to import so much that it competes with our own?

  4. Your quotes from Mahmood Ahmadinnejhad make it quite clear that it is the Zionist REGIME which he wishes to remove. He has said this many times. He has never to my understanding claimed he wanted to attack or wage war on Israel or the jewish people.

    The fascist Zionist regime in Israel is EVIL. It has complete control of the USA government, media and banking system and is systematically wiping out the Palistine land and people, and aims to have complete geopolitical control of the Middle East and it’s oil.

    What fxck is Ahmadinnejhad supposed to do?

  5. Another example of the inner peace, pacifism, and enlightenment that Islam provides it’s followers… they will never tolerate the existence of anything outside of Islam.

  6. I can see a time when the EU will behave in the same way as Islam, let’s face it they are not far off of it now, didn’t Monti want to censor all publicly spoken words by politicians to an agreed list? Doesn’t the EU wish to control all internet traffic in and out of the bloc? Thin end of the wedge but, that’s how it begins. Maybe they have seen the writing on the wall and now wish to emulate Islam, after all works for them, doesn’t it?

    • There is no doubt about anything you say with your comment. When we can no longer access or post to sites like “The Slog” then it truly is game over for the minions.

  7. In the U.S. they were commemorating the attack in September 11, 2001. Meanwhile in the Arab world the U.S. embassies in Libya and Egypt were attacked and it appears that Salafists ( a movement bred and funded in Saudi Arabia) are responsible. The Libyans try to blame Gaddafi’s followers but this is just not plausible.
    The extremist have given Mr. Obama the ‘Yorkshire Yeoman’ salute. With an election looming, it will be interesting to see the response from the Nobel Peace Prize winner!

  8. Madam Clinton is not terribly bright and as for her credibility….. She lost all notion of that after she stayed with a man who had had his sperm analysed “live on tv”.

    Her, and others morally similar to her, are the type of charlatans running our world.

    As for the film that sparked outrage. At best it could be described as a bad b movie. At worst one could describe it as Hollywood filth designed to provoke.

    Here is the trailer if you can stomach it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmodVun16Q4

  9. It is interesting that Hillary got so much credit as being the person who made Bill the President. In fact, as is becoming increasingly obvious, the person who made Bill the President was……Bill. Hillary is just nowhere near as bright. Let’s face it, Bill was the one who went to Oxford.
    As for the Middle East, I put it in the NFI file. The UK has no national interest in which religious faction controls any of the “countries”-the ones with oil will still have to sell it.
    My view is that if the US wants to get involved, then it is stupid, but nowt to do with us and nor should it be.

  10. Sorry to be blunt but religion is for idiots who are afraid of death.

    That fear is exploitable, hence the fact that centralised religious orders (eg the Vatican) are wealthy beyond compare.

    Keep your money, spend it on as many sins as you like: there’s no god at the end of it all to tell you off.

    • “Sorry to be blunt but religion is for idiots who are afraid of death”.

      You never met my dad, Chris the man was not afraid of death. He was braver than I imagine you will ever be.

      • @bill: apologies for use of the word “idiot”. Religion bugs me. It’s not meant as a slight against your father, having faced death more than once in my own life I have nothing but respect for anyone who can stand tall in the face of it.

        But I’m wondering if your dads first exposure to religion would’ve come at a young age and a time when it was simply the status quo.

        Given a choice would he not have been just as brave without it?

  11. I enjoy your commentary and visit hat4uk often. But will you please find another sobriquet for President Obama? “Black Dude” comes across as borderline racist, if not outright racist. I say that not as a defender of Obama, but as a believer that his skin color has about zero to do with his performance as president.

    • Rob: “….Black Dude” comes across as borderline racist, if not outright racist”

      The term “Black Dude” is not, to my mind, meant to be “to do with his performance as president”.

      As I see it, and other Sloggers please correct me if I’m wrong on this, t’s a moniker that reflects two things……the first being he’s a black man. No one will argue with that observation without looking childishly pedantic. So that explains the “Black” part.

      And the second thing is that his image consultants/spin doctors like to portray the man as cool (or maybe he is actually cool). Hence the use of the word “Dude”.

      And before you say something along the lines of ” Well no other US President has ever been given a nickname with the word white in it”, remember, they’ve ALL been white. Wouldn’t work. Obama is the first black President of the US.

      It’s not “borderline/outright racist” to call a black person black.

      Stop being so precious.

    • Err, -he’s black and he’s relaxed and dresses well (great suits!). The soubriquet doesn’t seem racist to me -and it says nothing at all about his performance as President (which personally I think has been just fine-no wars always gets my vote).
      Was “thin white duke” racist for Bowie?

      • Sorry Rob. The tool predicated his entire candidacy on the colour of his skin. Therefore it’s fair game to take the piss out of that fact.

        It’s only a misnomer in the sense that Obama is the whitest president for decades. He’s impoverished millions of African americans with his economic “policies”. Bush couldn’t have done it better himself.

  12. JW: “The American ambassador to Libya has paid for State Department folly with his life today, and every caring human being should be sad about that.”

    Are you overdoing the allergy pills John? You must be f**king joking.

    The Yanks have been poking the Islamic hornet’s nest in the Middle East for decades and thousands of their own blue collar sons and daughters and millions of Middle East civilians have died as a result of their geopolitical bullying and power plays. It’s about time someone from the ruling circles got a taste of the blow back.

    Maybe if a few more Senators, Congressmen/women or Ambassadors were killed directly due to their foreign meddling they’d be a bit more wary about unleashing ethnic fires in foreign countries in the future.

    • So Supa if we just stop poking the Islamic hornet’s nest radical Islam will go away? I think you are the one OD..ing on allergy pills.

      • C’mon now Bill, the bodies of the last US servicemen to die fighting Al-Queada in Afghanistan are not yet cold in the ground yet the US has allied itself with, guess who, in it’s efforts to topple Middle East SECULAR dictators…………..yip you guessed it, Al-Queada.

        If you stop poking the Islamic’s hornet’s nest radical Islam won’t go away. But they might just leave the US alone. You are after all a long way away from where they’re primarily concerned with. Roughly the same distance away as Mexico is, which hasn’t as far as I know been attacked by Islamic fundamentalists.

        Don’t believe for a second that Al-Queada hate America for its “freedom”. Bullshit. Ask yourself why Al-Queada hasn’t attacked New Zealand, Ireland, where I live, Brazil etc? All free countries too.

        I think you know the answer already.

  13. It seems to me pretty obvious that Islam as practiced in most places today is producing more fundamentalist nutters than Christianity or even Judaism. But it was not so 500 or 1000 years ago, and it may not be so 100 years hence. At a recent conference I heard from the head of the Indonesian Mulema that “Only God does not have an ‘other’. All of the rest of us do. Without the ‘other’, we are not truly ourselves. So if Muslims try to extinguish the ‘other’ – Christians, Jews, or pagans – we also extinguish our Muslim identity”.
    Make of it what you will. Trying to pretend that fundamentalists are not fundamentalists won’t work. And Islam has, I think, particular difficulties in not going into fundamentallsm. But even if generalisations may be true, distinctions may be truer and more useful.

    • It was so 500 and 1000 years ago. It has always been so. You should read “The Decline of Eastern Christianity under Islam” by Bat Y’eor.

      I had no particular view about Muslims until after 9/11. If anything I was positively disposed; I had Muslim friends when I was a student who struck me as moral decent people of good character; it is one of the ‘great’ Abrahamic religions, the Koran is just their version of a bible and so on, and of course most of the adherents seem to be dark skinned, and we musn’t be racist.

      After 9/11 I got curious about what motivated the hijackers so I decided to read the Koran. I was astonished at how primitive it was; it happily justifies murder, rape, pillage, enslavement, concubinage, consummating ‘marriage’ with a child (a.k.a. Paedophilia as we would call it today). It is the only religious book I am aware of which explicitly enjoins its followers to murder non-believers and employ deception and lies to further the cause. It is also the “unmediated word of God” if you are a believer so it is not susceptible to scholarly re-interpretation. That’s really bad news. To someone brought up on the kumbaya-hippie peace and love interpretation of the New Testament, as I was, it came as a real shock.

      I came away convinced Islam is a threat to civilisation. It seems to lead to a strange mental bifurcation where enthusiastic followers at the same time believe they are terribly oppressed yet aggressively attack others. It is interesting to note all the world’s current major conflicts are either between different varieties of Muslim or where a large Muslim minority interacts with a host population of another faith. The pattern seems to be when there are up to 4-5% Muslims in the general population, everyone gets along just fine. When there are 10-20% they start getting assertive and wanting special treatment. When there are more than that the enthusiasts (by no means all muslims, we must be fair) start attempting to curb others and restrict normal civil society. When there are 40-50% you either give them the hegemony they inevitably seek, submit to them, or you have a war.

      It would be helpful if the useful idiots on the unpatriotic self-hating British left separated the colour of the adherents from the ‘religion’ and recognised what a threat this wicked philosophy is. I would not be surprised if we have a civil war by the time my grandchildren are adults.

  14. The shit the western press and JW spouts about I’m a Dinner Jacket is a complete LIE. He may run an oppresive regime like every Middle Eastern regime but he has ONLY ever talked about removing the Zionist REGIME… he has NEVER talked about wiping Israel off the face off the map. Show me where he has said this.
    This is supposed to be Bollocks deconstruction!

    • Like any good politician… he says it without saying it… just because he refers to Israel as the “zionist occupying regime” does not mean they are not the same…. he seems to enjoy the same level of duplicitous speaking in riddles as he blames his “Zionist regime” for engaging in (probably to the same eye winking, grin filled approval of his ignorant masses)… it’s been double, and triple talk from day one… from all sides.

      • All those rockets going to Hezbollah, Hamas and so on and flying in their unguided thousands across the Israeli border! It’s just old Ahmadinejad having a laugh. He doesn’t really mean to kill Jews indiscriminately.

        It is disturbing to see how anti-semitism is on the rise. It is becoming a highly respectable prejudice, particularly among the more credulous trade unionists and Guardian readers, who seem to think it is ”artists against apartheid” all over again. Never mind that Israel is the only functioning democracy in the middle east, 20% of the population is Arab or Druze and they all have the vote, “oppressed” Muslims included, which is why you find Muslim members of the Knesset. But those poor sods living under Palestinian control aren’t very free, are they? And if they’re Arab Christians they are steadily being forced out by Islamist mutters which is why the Arab Christian population of Bethlehem (inter alia) is in a catastrophic decline. ‘Religion of peace’ my arse.

      • Feel free to refute the ‘talking points’ by the way.

        It’s a bit like one of those irregular verbs. I have the facts, you have an opinion, my opponent has a ‘talking point’ – and in this case must therefore be a Jew! I will declare a little knowledge; over the last 20 years I have visited Israel on business about 40 times so. I didn’t much care for having to take to a shelter in Ma’alot while Hezbollah fired katyushas over the border, it coloured my opinion of the conflict.

        Ma’alot by the way is the town where in 1974 members of the ‘religion of peace’ murdered 2 Israeli Arab women, hijacked a school, and then killed 22 children with hand grenades. I oppose that kind of thing.

  15. You keep spouting talking points, including sarcastically labeling Islam as the religion of peace.

    I happen to have travelled throughout Indonesia – the worlds most populous muslim nation for the last Thirty years with no problems at all. I have friends who do likewise in Turkey with no issues.

    The troubles with Islam stem directly from Israel’s behaviour and those of its misguided patron – America. Furthermore please do not conflate anti Zionism with anti semitism, all good Hasbara do that and it’s not a good look.

    • @Walrus , christians in Indonesia live and attend their churches in fear .Last year alone the anti-christian attacks doubled , churches were torched and grenades were thrown .Their government encourages tolerance but they take no action .How is that for “no problems” ?
      I personally was refused visa to Indonesia because my passport had a visa from my Israel visit .Was forced to accidentally wash my passport in the washing machine and issue a new one to enter .How is that for “no issues” ?

      • How is that a problem? Try asking for A visa to china with a Taiwan stamp in your passport. The Australian consulate in hong kong. Had a special queue for “lost” passports in the days of the Canton trade fair.

        As for Indonesia, good beer(thanks to the Dutch ) nice women who are assertive and in parliament, and a very easy interpretation of Islam apart from the odd mutters and of course Aceh, a Kingdom even the Dutch couldn’t conquer.

        As for Christians in Indonesia, I witnessed the in your face American southern baptists at work in Sulawesi, and personally would have deported the lot of them – have you ever seen converts houses dressed in lights and with lit crosses to portray their conversion? Talk about in your face provocation in the richest and most fertile part of the country.

      • Walrus the most of the christians in indonesia are Chinese and also christianity arrived in indonesia the same time as islam ( 12th century ) so isn’t really a conversion .Also if you consider house-churches “in your face provocation” would you label the closure of the street of Paris by praying Muslim the same ?( go in youtube and search for the videos to get the actual picture ,i dont want to put the link here as i suspect might not go down well with a lot of exclusively sensitive in religious matters people ) .

    • Seb Weetabix/Walrus: What Israel and Iran have in COMMON in both the majority of their population wish at all costs to avoid war, but both have a large chunk of their population that are successfully being inflamed by propaganda and disinformation from their respective Religious Fundamentalist Governments, to hate the other.

  16. Pingback: John Ward – US Libyan Embassy Murders : Clinton’s Foreign Policy Blown Away – 13 September 2012 | Lucas 2012 Infos

  17. Our morning-coated smug civil servants in the FCO will no doubt prepare a carefully nuanced tut-tut statement intended to offend no-one and have no effect.
    In their cosy drawing rooms, the elegance of language will be delicately applauded as a mastery of the art, and the rest of the world will continue in the 21st century, trying to shape the future for better or worse.
    Our lot, irrelevant.

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