Suspicions grow as Royal Bank of Scotland refuses to hand over records to Canadian authorities
Libor investigation spreads to encompass RBS misreporting in Yen
Source claims Treasury behind refusal
Hester….keeping things under his hat
Following its recent highly-convenient and lucrative glitch, the New York Times this morning reports that RBS is battling to stop Canadian regulators from having access to its files, in a case seeking evidence of false Libor reporting. Ottowan Court records show that the bank bossed by Simon Hester is refusing to turn over crucial information to Canadian regulators. Slog sources in the UK have been filling in some of pieces of what looks increasingly like a potentially revealing jigsaw.
The Slog has been on the case of RBS pretty much since the day Freddie Badloss tried to buy ABNAmro. The mess internally was never properly cleared up, the bank still has radioactive exposure to South and East European loans: plus, the Government (more in terms of Whitehall than Westminster) has been devious bordering on mendacious about the state it’s in.
Just to put this into some kind of perspective – and bring the ginormous bill up to date – the National Audit Office (NAO) points out the following:
“Unless the shares in RBS and Lloyds Banking Group start paying substantial dividends, the Government as a whole will make annual cash losses on the support once the cost of borrowing the money used to purchase the shares and provide the loans is taken into account,” it says. Many of us insisted this was the case from Day One, as a counterpoint to Alistair Darling’s ridiculous lies about the taxpayer “coming out of this with a substantial profit”. In fact, we lose over £2bn on the deal every year, while our continuing support and liabilities remain astronomical: cash injections into RBS in the last fiscal came to £66bn, and ldebt guarantees are still over £75bn. We have (Sir) Fred to thank for this, the removal of whose knighthood caused a storm of protest from the bankers’ pr machine, with the usual ‘Shows Britain isn’t open for business” bollocks. No chaps, it showed that Britain is not up for knighting idiots who take the piss.
Talk to Treasury and senior Tory sources privately, and they will admit that the Coalition is desperate to offload the Scottish Money-pit. The Arabs and Indians have been tried, and all walked away the minute even cursory due diligence was undertaken. This is for one simple reason: RBS should be renamed UXB: it is an explosion just waiting for someone to cut a wire.
The recent ‘glitch’ remains, in my view, strong evidence that a wire was cut in the Natwest/Ulster region of Fred’s one-time gargantuan Empire of Dick-fantasy recently. The chances of one glitch (a) affecting so much for so long (b) running across all three banks and (c) only ever working in favour of RBS cashflows are not high. But to then blame one Indian engineer for every “cheque’s-in-the-post” trick tried on by the bank during that period isn’t even good spin: it’s a derisory explanation for what happened….and it ‘accidentally’ handed £80bn of cash-flow breathing space to a brand that has been hiding its massive exposures for three years.
But this new Canadian demand for transparency goes right to the root of the bank/politics marriage in the UK for one reason above all others: the Government – i.e., us – owns 82% of the bank. Thus, whatever Simon Hester says, Westminster and Whitehall have potential blood on their hands in all this: if they tried to avoid that, then they’d be even madder that Gordon was. So by definition, Camerlot must be involved. If RBS falls over, then the game’s up for our banking system. And if incriminatory and/or financially devastating documents were pulled out and held up to the light by the Canadian regulatory authorities, then the Government would very probably be shown to have stuffed more money in than they admit, or used it as a vehicle for Libor massage, or written off some biggies hidden away somewhere, or…oh, come on – we all know, the list of potential foul play is endless….and all of it equally likely.
While very happy to pile in and box Barclays’ ears (rarely was such a thing more deserved) the Coalition has been very squeamish about handing out the same treatment to RBS. Humiliating Barclays is a relatively safe vote-winner and unlikely to have directly serious consequences; doing that to RBS right now would kill it….and reveal how the Government behaves when it suddenly becomes a banker. This would explain why the bank now insists that sharing the documents demanded by the Canadians would amount to an “unreasonable search and seizure” and violate its “privilege against self-incrimination.”
More bollocks, of course – because the focus of the Canadian investigation – while it concerns Libor misreporting – is on the Libor rates in Japan’s currency – the Yen.
Lawyers lying working for RBS Canada are pretending claim that the Canadian operation does not have access to the material in question, and that “it cannot be transferred”.
And yet more double-bollocks: the Canadian outfit holds the Yen documentation, and there is no international client confidentiality involved in releasing it. As the NYT succinctly points out:
‘The [legal] argument is at odds with the aggressive approach British lawmakers have taken toward the Libor scandal. That the British government has a controlling stake in the Royal Bank of Scotland — and has not shied away from imposing its will on the bank — only adds to the curious standoff. In recent months, the government has moved to rein in executive compensation and curtail the bank’s risky businesses.’
Or put another way, RBS is in the doo-doo, and up to its neck in the Libor scam…in which, by being the owner, the British Government is directly implicated.
I am still trying to stand up the tip that the Coalition and the Treasury are intimately involved in the refusal to comply with Canadian requests. If you can corroborate that in any way, the address as always is jawslog@gmail.com.
Stay tuned.


[could]…violate its “privilege against self-incrimination” is an interesting phrase. It implies that the documents would tend to incriminate.
I’ve never bought in to the “if you’ve nothing to hide you’ve nothing to fear” argument often put up in support of government snooping, but in this case the circumstantial evidence is overwheleming and we have a right to tear the guts out of this one.
It wouldn’t happen in the UK, so I applaud the Canadians for going for it.
A very fair point, Mr Freud.
It is a great shame that Canadians must do for the British what the British should be doing for themselves.
One wonders what the British populace think of all this. They have investments and bank with RBS – yet seem disinclined to move accounts. That, if nothing else, would spur the UK Government into actually doing something.
Okay, put more realistically, it might.
John, I normally agree with most of what you say but I strongly object to the phrase, “Scottish Money-pit”. RBS is a BRITISH bank that happens to have it’s HQ in Edinburgh. It has been paying tax to the British treasury since it’s inception in 1727. Please stop peddling the Unionist line about the failed Scottish banks. Does anyone blame Yorkshire for the HBOS going under?
No, but they’re bloody responsible for those awful chunky chocolate bars and the leering truck drivers that eat them!
And anyway wasn’t it Halifax (Nova Scotia?) Bank of SCOTLAND!
It really does not matter what bank it is, they are all in the fixing of the rates on a daily basis, But all come back to the very spider in the web,
THE BANK OF ENGLAND, Libor effects every bank and currency in the world, every transaction that has interest attached to it, be it mortgages, loans,and almost everything else you can think of, after all they decide what the money is worth. (as well as print it)
The Mounties always get their man.
SITC
why is that never claimed of the Met, I wonder?
A10 perhaps?
MF
could you explain that remark? The A10 is the ring motorway around Amsterdam – or did you mean something else?
It’s also a road that starts in our city and depending on your interpretation, speeds you to a great place of learning……….
However in this instance all roads lead to an investigative branch of Scotland Yard.
Monk F
I think you mean the M40 when it comes to “places of learning” – as to Scotland, I thought that was at the end of the M1 ;-)
My reply moved of its own accord – how odd?
MF
that is one of the peculiarities of the WordPress comment system. As with all good democratic organizations, it tells you very little about how things work, and leave you guessing. Something to do with transparency, I believe.
In short, reply at the top and your comment will appear at the bottom.
Ahh there was me thinking it was an autocracy, bit like JW’s blog I suppose and all the better for it most could argue?
Democracy is so last year…….
Mmmm that does have a certain ring to it, who cares if it’s in our nose, isn’t it always, just less visible?
I think you’ll find that the wonderful Alistair intended that a socialist view of substantial profit should be adopted when interpreting the final account, the sage that he is……
A trifling £2billion annual loss is a substantial profit when cloaked in those terms!
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You’re obviously one of those famous Oxford rowers Gemma, judging by the tit for tats between you and the upside down one.
My blue faced friends assure me the M1 ends in London, beneath the shaded lanes of the North Circular Road in the leafy borough of Brent…….
I did splash around a little, but no fame. I am not fast enough for that. As I said to Jasper – you can give me the fastest bike in the world and I will still be slower than you! The spats you mention would be more fun if there was any invention to counter. It is plodding recycled twaddle.
As to the M1, you are correct. It is not a motorway I frequent.
The only Jasper I know is Casper’s brother, but I’m sure it can’t be him even if he is very fast!
http://www.liquidgeneration.com/Jasper-The-Douchebag-Ghost
I imagine the upside down one is no fun for you, but for someone occasionally passing and not familiar with the plodding recycled nature of the exchanges there is a certain amusement factor in their reading, even if its only the vexed exchange of others blaming the victim for being a victim.
MF
the problem arrives when the other commenters have had enough of my Troll as well. That is when the problems start for JW. That my Troll feels that it is doing something legitimate – which it quite clearly is not – is nonetheless upheld by JW’s inaction.
the problem Gemma is that your posts are very tedious and uninteresting and you persistently dominate the comments
Reeder
perhaps if you made some sensible ripostes instead of that so-constant British whining, we might learn a little more? You have my newly minted Gravatar to warn you off, after all.
Sure, we have Fred to blame for the original mess of RBS. But it was our old friends Gordon Brown & Darling who failed to carry out due diligence and wrongly poured £billions of taxpayers money into the crock bank to save their own worthless skins. Taxpayers will pay the price for their political cowardice. Not a dissimilar mess with Lloyds-HBOS, albeit slightly different reasons.
Will these organised criminals in government be brought to book?
On the reasons for the RBS/Natwest computer glitch…here’s what NatWest’s latest e-mail says about it. No mention of anybody in India:
__________________________________________________
“Dear Mr … … …
We’re writing to provide you with an update on the technical issues we faced recently.
Where we are now
The original issue has now been fixed and it remains our first priority to continue to help our customers. If you incurred fees or charges as a result of this issue, we will arrange a refund and inform you when this will take place. You don’t need to do anything as these refunds will be provided automatically.
We’re also working with all the main credit reference agencies to ensure that none of our customers’ credit ratings will be adversely affected.
What went wrong?
The problem was caused when maintenance on IT systems in Edinburgh disrupted the regular processing of overnight transactions. It took time to resolve this problem, which in turn created a backlog, so many customers’ account balances were incorrect between 19 June and 6 July.
What we’re doing to make sure this won’t happen again
We have commissioned an independent audit to investigate how the problem arose and we will make all the improvements necessary to ensure it doesn’t happen again. We will make the findings public when they become available.”
__________________________________________________
Hmmm … sounds as if they are giving themselves time to retire.
The problem with computer glitches (or whatever it was that caused the problem, it might have had nothing to do with computers at all) is that they usually take quite a different form on subsequent occasions.
@Gemz: Yep, I expect RBS/NatWest to release their audit report findings sometime after the issue’s gone off the headlines. That’s the usual gameplan.
Westminster live:
Mervyn King had no suspicion of wrong-doing until two weeks ago.(Libor rate scam) Bless. Maybe it was above his pay grade???
De;pending on what King’s exact words were, that’s an obvious lie and he should be sacked and prosecuted for running an organised crime racket out of the BoE.
Those were the exact words used by King. A further example of the arrogance of the banking fraternity. As for SOCA, a “spokesman” stated last week they do not have sufficient funds to mount a forensic investigation into the irregularites of the banks. How convenient.
Liz
“Arrogance of the Banking Fraternity” – - – what else do you expect? They have had it sewn up for generations. Their arrogance is a mere statement of the obvious. Whatever happens, the likes of King and Diamond have their homes in Bermuda or Barbados and a guaranteed income in whatever currency is still usable.
@Liz: It’s a disgraceful state of affairs that SOCA feel free to abandon their legal duty to investigate the biggest organised crime racket ever in Britain. It should now be for the taxpayer to refuse to pay taxes on the grounds that they are to support an organised crime syndicate.
He had no suspicion perhaps because he already knew?
I suspect his pay grade is appropriate for the level of disingenuity he brings to the murky world his peers inhabit.
Never underestimate the interpretation of truth a lie offers.
It will be interesting to see who wins the battle of wills here. I suppose RBS is just giving itself enough time to produce some innocuous paperwork supposedly pertaining to the Canadian requirement.
Or, put succintly, Whitewash.
No doubt signed and notarized by Linda Green.
I gather she is available.
The whole Fractional(fictional) Banking system is
a fraud to start with.Whats a minor addition to it.
I have little doubt that the coalition govt sanctioned RBS’s refusal to co-operate with Canadian authorities – the issue is too big not to have been – but I welcome your efforts to secure corroborated evidence.
What we are seeing here is the current govt and BoE/FSA being obliged to cover-up Libor rigging (State sponsored organised crime) which was carried out by the last govt with the BoE/FSA and commercial banks because “they’re all in in together”.
Is it time to call in SOCA?
From Liz O’Donnell: ‘As for SOCA, a “spokesman” stated last week they do not have sufficient funds to mount a forensic investigation into the irregularites of the banks. How convenient.’
For me, I’d be willing to have a ‘whip round’ see if we couldn’t raise the necessary…..A little matter of a ‘lack of funds’ should not stand in the way of an investigation of a fraud of this potential, it will, but it shouldn’t.
I wholeheartedly agree Kfc, and I suspect the UK population would contribute. We could have Sir Terry Wogan front a telethon and call it “W******…sorry Bankers in Need” and have sufficient funds remaining to reduce the deficit by a considerable sum.
I thought the UK population had already paid for the bailout for the bank through their taxes? Surely there will be a little left over?
That bill is yet to be paid Gemma although not by this generation I suspect.
Lets not add to the burgeoning bill Liz by loading it up with Wogan’s appearance money, even it he does offer to do it at mates rates!
With mates like that etc etc……………….
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@BT: ‘It should now be for the taxpayer to refuse to pay taxes on the grounds that they are to support an organised crime syndicate.’
If only we could…….back to my original idea methinks, burn a branch a day….
@BT & Kfc
Yes something must be done, drastic measures for drastic times. I get an uneasy feeling re the SOCA standpoint and think it smacks of collusion. It is reminiscent of the Metropolitan Police’s attitude to phone hacking. And we all know what that led to.
@Liz O’Donnell: Drastic times are indeed here. I think you are absolutely right about the collusion, as Scumron said ‘We are all in it together’ many a true word spoken in jest eh?
@kfc: Here you go:
__________________________________________________
Dear Chancellor of the Exchequer,
Prior to settling my next Income Tax payment to the Inland Revenue, I require a clear written assurance, from whichever officer within Government has the authority, that I will not be criminally prosecuted.
The reason for this is quite simple. Evidence is available in the public domain that the rigging of Libor carried out over the past few years happened by collusion between the Government, Bank of England, BBA, the FSA and a number of commercial banks, Barclays being one of them.
No one can deny that the actions were very serious, very organised and were of course criminal under several statutes. We also know that any person who supports serious organised crime – directly or indirectly – is subject to criminal prosecution him/herself.
I await receipt of such written confirmation that no criminal prosecution will be taken out against me for paying taxes to a criminal organisation, ie the Government.
No further payments of tax will be made without this.
luv and kisses
__________________________________________________
@BT: The ‘luv and kisses’ should clinch it…..
Interesting link in the telegraph comments section. Head of British constitution group arrested tried and imprisoned in secret by the British state, I don’t know the group, the website or the history. but I’m wondering if any sloggers have heard about this story, is it as bad as it sounds?
http://www.thebcgroup.org.uk/blog/roger-hayes-arrested-tried-secret-court-imprisoned
Looks horrific. But the obvious question is how long has Hayes’s refusal to pay Council Tax battle been going on, and was he given a final warning by the judicial system of imminent arrest unless he paid up. The blog entry doesn’t make any of this clear.
OTOH, if his arrest was unexpected, it should be picked up by MSM and the lid blown off the police state.
this link has all the info of roger hayes arrest
http://www.sovereignindependentuk.co.uk/
Regardless of whether he was made awarf of any imminent arrest or not, the outcome of the trial and immediate imprisonment (if true) is deeply worrying. I would hangfire with the letter to Draper Osborne BT, until this article can be confirmed or otherwise. As a matter of principle, I do not endorse Facebook and would be grateful if other sloggers who have an account would post if they are aware of this case. If true, this is chilling.
@susieq: It would help if you provided a direct link to the detailed information of his arrest rather than just a link to the website.
A sensational story spoilt only by the sensationalist reporting.
9.30am is hardly the early hours of operation associated with the secret police, more akin to Mums coming home from the school run.
I’d expect your average Stasi operative to be safely tucked up in bed with his favourite cuddly toy by then!
Sounds more like an arrest warrant issued by the local magistrates court being served for non payment of council tax, something that even the lowest of IQ’d payee knows (excluding the Head of BCG) non payment leads directly to gaol.
Tut tut, if this is the best BCG can do I fear the Muslim Brotherhood can look forward to a bye in the impending class against class struggle.
@ Monk Fish
Since when did Debtors Goal come back in UK ?
Or was he cited for contempt for non-appearance
for a financial discovery hearing..
@WS: There are people in prison for not paying the BBC TV
LicenceTax.What is being said in the two links is that he was tried in secret. Now not being a regular in the criminal justice system myself (yet) I don’t know what the standard procedure is. I presume that magistrates can lock you up for not paying council tax but doing it on the quiet, without warning sounds very odd and indeed worrying. From what little I do know, usually people are given dates to attend court and time to prepare a defence. And our system has a reputation for being slow. This does sound like an irregular case, if what the sites are saying is true.
There is where I have my doubts, not knowing the website or the group it’s hard to tell if we are getting the whole story. But the way things are going I wouldn’t be surprised.
There may be some payback here:
http://www.thebcgroup.org.uk/blog/arrest-rescue-judge-peake
Whatever Roger Peake´s relationship with his council tax bill is, he deserves some credit for having the cajones to stand up and be heard at a time when cajones are a bit thin on the ground.
The option never left the UK for certain debts Winston Smith and then only for a refusal to pay.
Google will reveal the type debts if you’re actually interested.
There are some who would point to how short the list of debts is and draw a parallel with the excessive levels of debt in the UK today, but that would question what went on in the heads of those libertarians whose hearts were filled with good intentions.
Many roads are paved with good intentions over here, maybe over there too, lots of us would be happy with just a bit of tarmac to smooth things out a little, but good intentions seem to hold sway.
Roger was rogered by his refusal to pay, now he’s got to take it like a man and hope that the Band D semi he sportingly refused to pay tax for, results only in time being spent with a Band D legged cellmate sporting a semi, otherwise he truly will be fvcked. Silly.
The BCG may want to consider the ability of their journalists to whip up public opinion, Julius Strichter could teach them a thing or two if they were so inclined, I think they’d enjoy it too.
* Julius Streicher *
When the Slog gets around to the misdeeds of HSBC, which it surely will, here’s a litttle background: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs
If only we could act together as one. They could not behave like that if say, 1M+ withheld their council tax, probably couldn’t cope if 100K withheld it, after all the prisons are full up already, if we could get 5M+ to withhold it….
@kfc: Absolutely agree. The whole system could be brought to its knees by several millions of people refusing to pay [whatever]. All it would need is a very clearly defined purpose. The political elites would have no choice…
@KFC
Nobody wants to be first ,as a vicious ‘example’ will
be made of them.
Reminds me of the people meekly walking to the
‘showers’ at Dachau.
@WS: Absolutely right, a vicious example will be made of them but, then it needs another, and another, and so on, to follow suit. Won’t happen but, it’s a nice thought!
It will happen if people get hungry. We don’t do it because we all have something invested in this system whether we like to admit it or not. Jobs, pensions, healthcare. No matter how crap they may be we have something. If the crap really goes down the pan, and enough people lose enough. Then the slimy pols had better look out.
@Winston @KFC
I’m Sparticus
You only have to go back to the late 80′s and early 90′s, if proof were needed to illustrate that concerted efforts work.
1.5m of us in Scotland witheld poll tax payments, which in turn led to the London riots in 1992, when the government tried to introduce it in England and Wales. A united front does work, isolated cases do not. Therefore it’s time to form a stratagem, then put our collective shoulders to the wheel.
The Scots intransigience objecting over the most democratic way of calculating local taxes led to the Council Tax.
Great, but please don’t organise any more protests as we can’t afford the alternatives.
Hollow victories come at a bloody expensive price.
Mmmm. More on Roger Hayes story: http://www.sarahmcculloch.com/blog/2012/07/13/letter-wirral-magistrates-court-roger-hayes/#more-2035
It’s a straightforward case of him not paying his council tax and a Magistrate putting him behind bars until he does!
But, I admire his principles.
Well that’s it then. It looks like it was the wheels of
injustice turning, not a Stasi operation.yea that puts a lid on that one.
Again, this sheds a different light on the Liebor scandal…..
http://www.sovereignindependentuk.co.uk/2012/07/07/the-libor-scandal-is-a-sham-engineered-by-central-banking-elites/
There’s lots of assertion there. But no actual evidence of anything.
Is this an extremism for dummies blog?
Can I join?
Whats the drill – read as many silly extremist publications that you can, post a link to them then faff around feigning outrage until you find a perfectly reasonable explanation somewhere else.
Jeez – No wonder Wardy’s taken a break from replying to comments, he must be on the phone to Moses to find out how what he done after taking a break.
Well we obviously can’t all have as highly developed intellect as you madge and know the truth straight off without having to ask or discuss anything. Makes me wonder why you bother your time writing in a comments section, you obviously have all the answers already.
Ask and discuss, two words Soap distinctly different from assert and insist which is what’s unfolding recently.
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The LIBOR Manipulation, Who’s To Blame: Bankers Or The Process?
http://lambertmbela.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/the-libor-manipulation-whos-to-blame-bankers-or-the-process/