GREEK ELECTION: As young voters reject the past, is the future of Greece about to be postponed?

Yesterday, Greek Prime Minister Papademos told the Nation:

In a few days we will hand over the baton to the government that will emerge from the elections on  Sunday. The elections decide on the strategic orientation of Greece. They will decide about the country’s future for the upcoming decades, not just about which government will be formed after the elections. So I think the public debate should focus to the better understanding of the reality as well. But I am sure that the decisions of citizens will be facing tomorrow and not the past.”

Well Papa, the polls certainly suggest that the youth of Greece is indeed looking to tomorrow, and rejecting the corrupt Parties of the past: yet another secret poll – this time national and obtained by The Slog – has New Democracy around 21-23%, PASOK in the range 14-16%, SYRIZA at 11+%, Independent Greeks at 11+%, KKE at 10%, Golden Dawn at 8+%, and the Democratic Left at roughly 6-7%. So the old Parties of pro-EU graft are looking a bit sick….and well short of a majority.

A reliable source in Athens confirms what The Slog has been saying for the last ten days: “This will increase the pressure on the new government to renegotiate parts of the second bailout programme”. And the Troikanauts are not going to like that one bit.

You might be asking yourselves, “Was this the right time for S&P to upgrade Greece?” and I must confess to the same doubts. In fact, I have doubts about WTF S&P’s judgements about anything mean any more. However, it could be that S&P has more inside information than The Slog. A report from Athens News states that during a meeting with accredited reporters and party representatives at the interior ministry earlier today (Thursday) executives at Singular Logic in charge of the Greek electoral count pushed back the time when a ‘safe estimate’ of the result would emerge by nearly two hours.

Far be it from me to suggest that this might allow more time for electoral jiggery-pokery. Singular Logic stressed that the system was “absolutely secure and had successfully fended off attempted attacks by hackers in the previous election in 2009 without any problems at all”. What on Earth can they mean?

In the time between now and that enigma being solved, here’s another consideration that the Greek electorate is weighing up. In the first quarter of 2012,Greek tax revenues rose by 1.7 billion euros from 24.2 billion  25.9 billion. And primary government expenditure decreased from 23.692 billion to 23.626 billion. In order to achieve this, however, the public as a whole had to cought up 7 billion euros, compared with just 3.33 billion in the corresponding period last year.

Now….how many Governments do you know about that got re-elected having more than doubled tax revenues?

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: the Troika is in for something of a drubbing. And that might well explain why the election ‘result’ could be delayed, in order to take account of ‘mistakes’.

 

48 thoughts on “GREEK ELECTION: As young voters reject the past, is the future of Greece about to be postponed?

    • Yep, I had an email too , is this true?

      Millions of us have campaigned to keep corporations and governments from censoring and controlling the web. Now one of them is trying to censor us. So far, we’re still standing, and our amazing member-funded systems mean that we can run this appeal for support safely and securely. But our campaigning is under real threat. We need to act, and show that these tactics only make us stronger:

      https://secure.avaaz.org/en/massive_attack_on_avaaz_a/?vl

      • @T_B: Hi, yeah I dunno who’s doing it but I don’t think DoS attacks usually go on for 36 hours non-stop unless it’s a government or big money paying for it. I guess they’ll be back up before too long…

      • Gee, Avaz! I’d rather be censored by a NWO government fxxxs than by left-wing environmental fascists (although I concede the latter may be a tool of the former).

      • @NK: I agree with you on Avaaz being a left-wing environmentalist outfit. A lot of people haven’t spotted that, including a few naturally right-of-centre people. But that’s why I have only ever voted to support one of their many campaigns. The rest go into the bit bucket.
        Still, somebody obviously doesn’t like them and is trying to put them off the air. Big money? a government? Who knows!

      • @Paul.J: TOR won’t help anyone if Avaaz is suffering DoS attacks.
        However, it will protect you from being identified as someone who accesses their website and supports their campaigns…

      • Security experts I know have advised me that the BIGGEST red flag for monitoring is anyone using the TOR network… it is essentially the pedophile/drug dealer communications network and the easiest way to be singled out of the endlessly large amount of info on the web for further scrutiny

      • @John: Sure, it’s true that TOR users usually have a reason for using it, but it doesn’t follow that they’re always using it to access pedophile/drug sites. That’s just nervous paranoia on the part of watchers.

        Whatever, watching it will not help because of the way TOR works: “The Onion Router” whereby each node peels off one layer of encryption and passes it on to the next. Thus no single TOR node knows what the content of the underlying encrypted packets contain. And the TOR nodes do not retain logs so they don’t know where it came from. US LE have tried to trace back packets of data to their source, unsuccessfully.

  1. If electronic voting is being used, I would not place the least confidence in the system. Singular logic suggests that it will be no less bent than the rest of Greek administration and politics. I heard that the Russians were asking to have observers present and hope their scrutiny is thorough.

  2. Let’s not forget the ex Wall St. and World Bank “compromise” candidate EU environmental minister Stavros Dimas (that they have already proposed) who (like the rest of the government, including PM Karamanlis) was wire tapped in 2004… right after the Goldman debt “camouflage” job… today they exhumed the body of the technician blamed for the phone taps since there is new proof he did not, as was reported kill himself… this plot is so thick it has gravy in it’s veins…

    • I sometimes get the impression that there’s a powerful corrupt mafioso syndicate operating in the shadows trying to sieze control of Greece.

      • LMFAO… Troika, they knew if they could break us (most unionized, pro-labor, pro-pensioner, pro-democracy) they could do it to the rest of Europe as well.

      • If it was only one we would be able to point it out. My feeling is that there are at least a few of them, powerful, corrupt, mafioso, syndicates, fighting for control over Greece. But then again… is it any different where you live?

      • @John:
        For sure the Troika are in there. But the deep corruption in Greek politics goes back a lot further than the Troika’s appearance on the scene. I’m thinking of something much more secretive and deeply embedded.

        @eryx-t:
        Sure, we have lots of corrupt politicos in the UK and we often think they all belong to the same party, separated only by one or two superficial differences to fool voters. But see my comment above to @John.

      • @BT
        Not to the same party but to the same religion they belong.
        But politicians just act as colonels or hired guns to the real bosses.
        The first though is that are easily manipulated because they are corrupt. But the opposite is perhaps more accurate: they are corrupt because they need to be easy to manipulate. To me they are just zombies. The moment they open their mouths you can usually tell they are zombies performing.
        That’s why I think that there is only one solution to this: build a system that filters them out as bugs in a software product. A very good example of that is the way open source communities work. Democracy could work like that in order to reinstate some values.

    • JUST FOR THE RECORD
      At the time of that Goldman debt “camouflage ” job our current EU appointed PM Papademos participated in the “camouflage” as president of the Central Bank of Greece . What a ” Brave New World” ????

    • @eryx-t: OK.
      But I have to ask you, who do you think is pulling the strings of these political marionettes? Who are the “real bosses”?

  3. Dear John, I vote in B’ Athens, and I would say that—as the situation has developed—these would be great results for the established parties.
    I repeat for the record what I sense, feel, hear but cannot prove:
    1.ND might not be the first party (i.e anything from 13% to 24%).
    2. SYRIZA fights for the second or even the first place (i.e >20%)
    3. Independent Greeks are unpredictably volatile and could achieve anything from the second to the fifth place (8% to 19%).
    4. PASOK stares the abyss at position 3 and below (9% to 13%).

    There’s no way that Samaras will be able to remain a party leader or call for new elections with less than 25% of votes, even if ND is the first party.
    The foreign media should probably start practicing how to pronounce the names Tsipras and Kammenos.

    And I really don’t believe that the coming landslide can be manipulated anymore. It’s too late for them to call back the elections or play games; moreover, their ability to spin, control and frighten is severely weakened (that’s basically why they will collapse) and I don’t see civil servants or Singular Logic trust them enough to believe they could get away with a Florida 2000 situation.

    • Heads I win – tails you lose

      Vote (approx) in favour of EU Troika – with a bit of massaging – all is well.

      Vote against – well make an example – let others see what the outcome looks like – very bad. Win also – with Greece ejected from the EU.

      The general “landslide” will be interpreted as the democratic will prevailing – though will be anything but. The monster is a shape shifter!

      • @marcjf

        I am with your opinion. Nothing is left to chance. They will make sure to get on the top.
        I’ll be totally surprised if results will not be manipulated. There is to much at stake (the whole NWO agenda). This is why MSM constantly repeated that Greece is a “SPECIAL CASE”. I have not doubt in my mind of that.

    • @Atreides:
      Fine, the elites can’t achieve any more manipulation. However, it remains the case I believe that whoever people vote for and whichever party wins or whatever coalition is formed, the one thing Greek people can be sure of not happening is getting a new govt that is both honest and competent. In all probability they’ll be as bad as the last democratic gang of thieves.

      • @BT

        Your argument suggest the following: Totally new blood in the parties. Unfortunately, most of those a..holes are flip-flopping just to get re-elected.
        Parties like KKE:
        Papariga has been there it seems forever, was she against EU before? No! No that going got tough she is suddenly opposed?
        I do not believe that for a second.

    • @marcjf: That’s exactly the dilemma they used ad nauseum. Indeed, this lead to dizziness and an increasing discomfort during the last two years, which many overcome recently after they puke with disgust.
      Actually, their delusion of grandeur might intentionally cover this scenario: No manipulation, shocking result, turmoil, exit.
      I can already see the headlines in case the SYRIZA/IG win: Dangerous leftist populists, Greeks voted to recover their lazy lifestyle and not pay their loans etc. If the extreme right also enters then, oh my, democracy is in danger, a coup or a civil war is imminent, certainly support cannot continue and the like.
      But things are not so simple, and I must keep it short for now, because it’s too late in the night here.

      @Bankrupt Taxpayer: Well, we should not abandon hope, should we?
      Precisely due to the lost innocence the huge distrust and the very few economic means, the new bunch has to immediately address some very serious and pressing issues before they (and their constituents) become sybarites.
      Tsipras (the leader of SYRIZA) is probably inspired more from Rafael Correa than Hugo Chavez.
      They will certainly make mistakes, hopefully not fatal.
      But for the first time, something moves below the crusted surface.

      • @Atreides:
        My concern is that the political mess in Greece is simply a Greek version of what’s happening in the UK/Europe, and even the US. The systems of government have all become utterly corrupt and self-serving.
        It looks to have gone past the point where ‘the people’ can demand a cleansing of politics and proper government. The only solution left is for people to take control and actually do the cleansing themselves. However, I know that’s a big step to take…and Brits are as reluctant to pick up the baton as anybody else. Yet nothing will be solved unless we do.

    • Atreidies

      If the anti-austerity parties get the majority it will be interesting to note the reaction of the Troika etc. The people will have spoken but obviously not in the way they were supposed to. The Troika have already shown that when push comes to shove that democracy is something they, when it suits them, would rather do with out.

      The fiscal pact itself is a testament to a developing tyranny. I think your result could well affect Hollande’s thinking should he kick out the poison dwarf, will affect the Spanish, Portuguese & later the Italians, once the Monti honeymoon is over. The anti-austerity movement throughout Europe will also obviously be strengthened.

      It will also, I think, due to events that would soon follow, make a difference to the voting in Ireland.

      Good luck anyhow.

  4. If someone of you could see the photos taken a few minutes before the announced speach of party leaders of ND in Athens & Pa-schock in Rhodes,, he would clearly understand why they started ’bout an hour later….. than announced!! Same thing happened yesterday in Thessaloniki during the ND event held among 2 Exhibition halls of the Thessaloniki Fair (I personally remeber more people staying in a cue at the same place during fairs to buy sausages and beer!!!)

    Most probably they hired in the last minute a few hundreds of immigrants to fill up the TV camera zooms ( as usual) ….. or their buses carrying their ”political customers” stucked again in the trafic. The directors of the TV coverage teams, they did their best to cover the events by trying to convince that it was crowded……but the ordinary Greeks (having followed past election campains on TV)…..know about the trick.
    One way or the other, they blamed thereselves by trying to convince that these are masses of voters of their parties.

    On the other hand, it is true that KKE (communists) yesterday and especial Syriza (left wing) tonight, gathered most probably 5 to 8 times more people during their events on central Athens squares well known for the capacity. from older hugh ND & PASOK speaches. But the most important fact for the KKE & SYRIZA events….is only one (comparing to the latest ND & PA- schock events)!!
    There was NO face control from anyone nor their security teams. Anyone seemed to be welcomed and free to join and the area in general was easily accesible, without any special or tight security measures!!

    Thats what we realized watching the latest news. So there is no wonder anymore about the late evening statement of the IMF ….about tight scedule on the austerity plan from the new goverment etc. etc …right after the news of Skai TV, where it was announced that we are going to see an enormous political shift in Greece, as they (the journalists) and the parties have been informed by the latest polls (which are illegal to be announced).
    Meanwhile as you can easily see on most of the greek blogs …all forcasts are fake!! On some forecasts you have a result of a 112% ttl votes and plenty other tricky results, as the poll leaked by the Brit Embas ? today. http://troktiko.eu/2012/05/dhmoskophsh-agglikis-presbeias-ta-pososta-ton-kommaton/

    Following the situation especially in Athens and surrounding areas….we see polling forcasts of ND & Syriza struggling even for the 1st place (and the bonus of the 50 extra seats in the parlament for the 1st party) followed by Independent Greeks with less than 1,5% difference.
    In total, most leaked polls (of the serious ones) show that 3 – 4 parties will have more than 11 – 12% of the votes (SYRIZA, ND, KKE, Independ. Greeks) but no one is even aproaching the 20% mark.(in total) speaking about Athens and the surrounding county.
    Pasok seems to be struggling for position 5 with the Nazis of Golden Dawn ( which are loosing rapidly their influence as the numbers develop) but remaining both bellow 10% followed by the Democratic Left (DIMAR) and the ECO – GREENS. (Personally I do not forcast any other party entering …the old palace at Syntagma square)

    But if anyone would follow only the polls of the Internet, there the results are amusing as well…..as anybody is informing Party members to vote several times in a few minutes……with polling results …..beyond any sick fantasy!!!

    So we must simply await ….the by 2 hours delayed (!) – as announced – gathering of about 45% of the votes, in order to be able to have a more specific feeling about the results of these very important elections. Most probably late after midnight of Sunday….the situation will clear up, as ”the anonyms” ….have announced yesterday, by a vid on vimeo, that they will also take part during the game.

    • Kouros , hope you are right , hope monday morning does’t find the same psychopathic crooks with no consciences and no shame as our government .I know lots of Greeks are scared of the unknown , IG ,Syriza or any left party doesn’t seem as a solution but if we want to put it into perspective is like this : think being on an airplane . The flight attendant comes​ down the aisle​ with her food cart and, eventually,​ parks​ it beside your seat.​ “Can I inter​est you in the chick​en?​” she asks.​ “Or would​ you prefer the platter of shit with bits of broke​n glass​ in it?” . To be undecided in this elect​ion is to pause​ for a moment and then ask how the chick​en is cooked.” If the same idiotic crooks are elected i am giving up on Greece and the human race all together .

      • @kouros @Yana
        I do understand wholeheartedly
        But don’t loose sight that
        “in the land of the blind the one eye is the King”
        Draw from history and ignore what’s happening up there. They are irrelevant. I urge you to focus on synergies, cosupport and trust. When the communities you belong are functioning under this premise – nothing to worry. Someone has to come to the σφιγγοφωλια to terrorise you. As you know they are “θρασυδειλοι”
        So let’s all of us adopt the strong communities & “Μολλον Λαβαι”
        We are many and need to find a way to unite.
        Let’s hope that Monday will signal a change in politics but Also a change to our thinking!!!

  5. The only relevant question for the Greek voter is should we stay or should we go. Do you want to stay in the Euro Zone or do you want to leave. Do any of your politicians have the guts to say what their party has to say on this issue? Do the Greek people what to be affiliated with the Eurocrats or not? That’s the question that should be in front of the Greek voter.

    • Quite right. I hope this will start an avalanche of detections from the eurozone and even the EU.
      Free trade among European countries and smaller, less intrusive governments can’t possibly do worse than the worthless clique from Brussels.

    • @Bill Casso… your statement presupposes that our votes count for anything at all. All of the decisions that have been made in the last 3-5 years regarding Greeks have not involved Greeks… this is not about what the Greek people want, this is about what the Franco-German banking system and the Eurocrats in Brussels need. After 5 years of this crap no one here in Greece is expecting anything to change regardless of who is elected into office… everyone here knows the political system (not just one or two party’s) is completely broken, corrupt, and unrepresentative of the needs or desires of Greeks themselves. As far as any of our polticians having the guts to say or do anything on the issue of leaving the EU, Papandreou wanted to have a national vote on it… and he was drummed out of office by Brussels and replaced with one of their ex-Goldman Sachs insiders… so you see it does not matter what WE want, it all depends on how far the worlds and Europe’s banksters are willing to subvert democracy, and subjugate Greece to whatever suffering it takes to fix their broken system and keep their investments in the broken system from disappearing all together… this doesn’t have anything to do with any one kind of peoples at all… this is all about money… rich people, and their money.

  6. Still eerily quiet here in a medium size village far from Athens. The only campaigning I’ve seen has been by IG and Dim Sym. This area is normally completely free of graffiti, but I’ve seen some saying Golden Dawn (and people do try to paint over or remove them).
    I agree with kirie Kouros above – as I’ve said before, Samaras has an olympic team of flag-wavers who appear to be at every televised rally, spaced to fill up more seats. Coverage of one of Veni’s showed lots of bored faces not paying attention.

    Για να δούμε – we’ll see.

    My heart goes out to all your greek readers / sloggers. My experience here is of hard-working, self-reliant, dignified people who are being trampled on by the crooks in Athens/Brussels, and they still welcome us Xenoi with open arms.

  7. These polls are incomplete, since you need to evaluate which parties are above the 3% threshold, and how the abstention vote is handled. With the numbers given, ND will pick up the 50 seat bonus for being first, and most likely ND + PASOK will have more the majority of seats in Parliament. That is all the Troika needs.

  8. Greek elections 2004
    PASOK 3.002.531 votes, 116 MPs, 38,7,3% of the Parliament
    ND 3.359.058 votes, 166 MPs, 55,3% of the Parliament
    Abstention 2.326.025 , White & Invalid 166.667

    Greek elections 2009
    PASOK 3.012.373 votes, 160 MPs,57,3% of the Parliament
    ND 2.295.967 ,votes 91 MPs, 30,3% of the Parliament
    Abstention 2.888.906 , White & Invalid 186.137

    2009 with 9.842 more votes PASOK got more 69 MPs comparing to less 50 in 2004 what a clever Election Law !!

    I hope that Singular Logic and the OTHERS will not “cheat” since this will probably result to people’s “unrest” since it has been widely talked and even you believe it the “Russians” are on guard !!!

    Let’s wait for the voters participation .

    • Dear ” statecapture”

      It seems that you are a drachma fan , I wonder why.

      Everybody talks for too “bad fiscal effect” to EU and worlwide from such a small economy ??????

  9. Pingback:  GREEK ELECTIONS: How the Papademos Government ‘forgot’ to send any tax bills | A diary of deception and distortion

  10. Pingback: Eurozone crisis – why you should avoid listening to the mainstream press « thejollyprophet

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