GREEK SOVEREIGNTY HEIST: why the scale of injustice here is mind-boggling

Christine Lagarde…somewhat serpentine

Below is the BBCNews website’s second lead this morning. The main splash is Stephen Hester and his reward for achieving nothing bonus.

Greece debt talks ‘close to deal’

Greece could reach a deal with its creditors over the weekend, according to the EU’s Economic Commissioner, Olli Rehn.

  • Flanders: Greek solutions
  • Q&A: Greece debt write-off talks
  • Draghi warns on eurozone credit
  • Call for IMF funds from UK and US

The Telegraph, Mail and Guardian also have nothing at all about the German proposal. The Indie has it on the front page, but only as a minor feature. The author didn’t seem to see ethics or legality as an issue.

The story is the lead in German Spiegel  but absent from the English version.

It’s the lead at Reuters (which broke the story) and also in the FT; but the Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg don’t have it. The Americans are asleep: I think they’ll catch up.

All quite extraordinary. But I think that, for now, it would be as well to focus not on the threat to liberty, democracy and sovereignty (because very few people out there are interested, to be honest) but simply instead to state clearly and calmly why the IMF-Berlin led proposal is one of the most unjust and hypocritical ‘suggestions’ in European history.

The first and overriding injustice is that the people of Greece are being punished for acts undertaken by a Government they voted against when last given the opportunity. While I’m fully aware of the fact that taxes and the Greeks are virtual strangers, they didn’t suddenly start paying even less four years ago: the Greeks were allowed in to the ezone paying hardly any tax; now they’re not allowed to leave…but will be penalised for paying pretty much the same very littleness of tax.

Second for me comes the question of how Greece gained access to the eurozone in the first place. The answers overall lie at various points along a smelly back-alley called corrupt eurocrats, even more corrupt politicians, Brussels hubris (big = good/the more the merrier), French manipulation of the German position, and the Germans making a mistake. As there is little or no sign now of any of these players bailing Greece out in the proper manner, I must regrettably reach the conclusion that they wish to cover up their guilt by starving a nation, and taking away its legal right to exist.

Third is the obvious mammoth in this small back-room of Europe: had this EU/IMF operation been mounted to repay the original investors and get Greece back onto a sound footing, the ECB could at the outset have repaid all the bondholders in full – an amount of around 350bn euros – when Greece faced default for the first time last year. This would not in any way have been beyond its remit, as it would have been aimed at guaranteeing the currency and financial institutions of the global system…but it was the beyond the wit of Trichet to do it. M. Trichet is now retired on a six-figure gold-plated EU pension. We would then not have seen the spikes in Portuguese, Spanish and eventually Italian bonds that caused us to need (as of last week) in the region of 2.2 trillion euros to sort the mess out: 2.2 trillion euros that we haven’t got.

At the absolute maximum, keeping other bond markets buoyant for a few months would’ve cost 150bn euros, tops. The crisis would be history…..and the Brussels people could be introducing the ezone-wide regulations that Merkel now desires. Ah but ah but, people say, that would’ve left the ECB dangerously exposed. Quite likely, I agree: but has anyone been to look at the toxic wasteland that is the ECB’s balance sheet lately?

No: what happened – and here comes the fourth point – was that banking firms overlent to Greece (and other ClubMeds) ridiculously, and the ECB did absolutely nothing to oversee and control that. Quite the opposite in fact: Jean-Claude Trichet grasped the post-2004 cheap credit with both hands, and showered every new ezone entrant with it.

“You can’t blame banks for lending, it’s their business,” argue the apologists. Wrong: a banker’s business is to lend money responsibly to business and its employees – in a way that doesn’t threaten the shareholders or members. It is not to overload sovereigns with debt – knowing they can then trade the the bonds to Hedge Funds (or central banks) and get away scot-free.

Consider: the Greek GDP in 2011 was $312bn dollars. At the end of that year, it had outstanding sovereign debt commitments of £410bn. Was it really beyond M. Trichet’s abilities to notice that? Well, the answer to that question is, “maybe”…..because someone had been helping the previous Greek administration disguise the debt mountain in the national accounts. And that company was Goldman Sachs. The Greek PM Lucas Papademos used to work for Goldman Sachs. The Italian PM Mario Monti used to work for Goldman Sachs. The ECB Head Mario Draghi used to work for Goldman Sachs. This year the senior directors at Goldman Sachs shared a $12bn bonus pool. Goldman Sachs has never been indicted for the seminar it gave, in Athens in 2006, on the subject of lying to Brussels and the ECB. What do Goldman Sachs people have that the Greek people don’t have? Silly question, purely rhetorical.

Fifth, let’s return to a story The Slog and other bloggers ran a few weeks back. One of the first things mentioned on Geli and Wolfie’s list of Things thou shalt not spend Taxpayers’ Money on until the Debt is Serviced is ‘Defence’. Will France and Germany now accept Greek cancellation of those contracts as part of the sovereignty loss? Yes, hmm…..well. Quite. Er….

Many of us wondered what all the sabotage in Athens was about during the week. Well, now we know what it was all about. A nation of unwisely laid-back people is being sold to a pack of anti-social bankers in return for the continuance in power of their fraternity – and that of the elites that depend on them more and more. They are being sacrificed on the altar of Mammon and his greatest servants, Der fleissige Deutscher and The American Way. And my vote goes to guest-American Christine Lagarde as Serpent of the Century: she would rather her little kip at the wheel and beaming incompetence in France after 2008 went unnoticed than help 11 million largely innocent people. She is indeed La vache qui rit.

This morning, David Cameron finds himself a victim of the old adage ‘be careful what you wish for’. There’s certainly no dithering involved in the Troika takeover ‘proposal’, so what does our Prime Minister feel about it all? Well, he doesn’t care about anything except money and power really….so yesterday he quietly rolled over as the Coalition signalled that it will not challenge the fiscal enforcement role for European commission. Whether that includes sovereignty-snatching we don’t know as yet. Perhaps he’ll comment on the German ‘proposal’ later. Perhaps he won’t.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of injustice is for good men to do nothing. Mr Cameron is a bad man doing nothing. He is beyond the pail, sorry, pale.

Related: When will we get a Davos for Stavros?

                  Lots of lervely leverely Franco-German defence contracts
 

64 thoughts on “GREEK SOVEREIGNTY HEIST: why the scale of injustice here is mind-boggling

  1. Le Figaro has a report http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-eco/2012/01/28/97002-20120128FILWWW00315-le-budget-grec-bientot-controle-par-l-ue.php

    Google translation says:- In Greece, the reaction was intense. Government sources said this morning ruled Athens to yield to the EU sovereignty over fiscal policy.

    Athens disappointed Berlin

    Several countries in the euro area impatient at the slow progress made in Greece, who crucially need 130 billion euros in loans included in a second aid package pledged by European countries in October.

    “The consolidation of the budget must be accompanied by a strict management and control system,” stated a text sent yesterday by Berlin to other cities in the euro area. “Given the disappointing adaptation so far, Greece has to accept a shift of fiscal sovereignty to a European level for some time,” said the German government.

  2. The Germans/EU presumably intend to use these moves to squeeze the Greeks harder–otherwise why bother? Commenters on the prev article said that if the Greeks don’t swallow then they will lose their cars,villas etc. But it hardly seems likely that they can keep those things and pay their govts debt anyway. If they could where would be the problem?

    It would suggest therefore that the Germans are attempting a troop-free (Greek cops do the dirty work?) occupation and pillage of Greece. That would seem to be a receipe for trouble.

  3. Wow, they are really playing with fire now. Such pompous supremacy.
    Lets hope the people learn from history and figure out what has to be done if they want a future.
    I would be interested to know what %age of the Greek working population work in the public sector, and whether the new colonial power will keep them in jobs (and pension promises).

  4. @John de Melle,the FIG actually says in its first sentence,’Certain Eurozone countries,including Germany,want a permanent european control of the Greek budget’ which is contradicted in the last sentence by reference to a text sent by Berlin to other EZ capitals,where the expression used is ‘pour un certain temps’.Ambiguos.

  5. Can someone please tell me what form of punishment will be meted out to the succession of Euro politicos for their total mismanagement of this disaster? They started out by finger-wagging, followed by foot stamping until they reached the current strapping on of the jackboots. In the meantime, they recruited all their GS cronies to ensure those jackboots were constantly stuffed with riches, whilst no doubt, simultaneously, stroking their enormous egos. While all this skullduggery took place, the poor Greek population have suffered enormously, but they were never taken into consideration at any time. On the initial blog, I found the comments from Klaus and Gemz quite disturbing, their general attitude was very blase. I wonder if the situation were reversed in their countries, would their views be so cavalier? The first candidates for the firing squad should be Merkel, Sarkozy and Lagarde (and no blindfolds please!)

      • Sorry Liz, I have this thing in my head. Basically, I really think that my opinion is the only one that matters and take even the most innocent posting which differs from this as a personal affront. I always feel its imperative that I make lots of comments and argue my case on every thread, and even though I’m told my view is as valued as others, I can’t resist commenting on every other comment and replying to every reply on every comment until everyone else gets bored. My husband is deaf.

      • Everyone complains of a lack of democracy and transparency from the Germans – and then they start doing it themselves.

        Amazing, isn’t it.

  6. Either the BBC are asleep at the wheel or they are complicit in this EU coup by stealth. Why isn’t Nick Robinson chasing Cameron around asking him about this? I guess as you point out John the BBC have figured out that the British public don’t care about the usurpation of the Greek people’s democratic rights and they daren’t rock the boat and say it could happen here. No one can say this time that this is a “faraway country of which we know little”.

    Although its an appalling act it does look like the pretext you’ve been anticipating, if the Greeks balk, as they should, it will give the Germans the chance to walk away and let Greece default and exit the euro with what assistance I wonder from their EU friends, who will all say its not our fault guv.

    • Complicit is my belief. The BBC are rotten to the core, whether it be climate change the E.U. or any immigration etc issues. I agree there is a possibility that this is designed to make the Greeks walk, but it’s not the case in my opinion. Let me just put on my tin foil hat for a second. Greece has had an E.U, place man put in charge. Then the crisis has been allowed to fester and grow. Now they are moving to take complete control. In fact to remove Greece as a sovereign state. Essentially they are being annexed. The same policies that brought this about are simultaneously being implemented in Portugal, Spain and Italy. If you do the same thing again then surely you must expect the same result? So the end of nation states? The end of democracy? This is no accident. I believe this because for the last fifty years European politicians have been telling us that this is exactly what they are going to do. We just did not list.en. Everyone should have a read of these quotes and have a long think about the current E.U, situation

      “I am sure the euro will oblige us to introduce a new set of economic policy instruments. It is politically impossible to propose that now. But some day there will be a crisis and new instruments will be created.”

      Romano Prodi, EU Commission President. Financial Times, 4 December 2001. Amazing, the front on these guys. So a future crisis is not seen as an indictment of the current system but an opportunity to extend it.

      “Europe’s nations should be guided towards the super-state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.”

      Jean Monnet, Founder of the European Movement. Former Cognac salesman and bureaucrat at the League of Nations. 30 April 1952

      “No government dependent upon a democratic vote could possibly agree in advance to the sacrifice that any adequate plan [to build the EU] must involve. The people must be led slowly and unconsciously into their abandonment of their traditional economic defences…”

      Lord (Peter) Thorneycroft, Privy Councillor, Conservative Party Chairman 1975-1981. Chairman of ‘Design For Europe’ Committee, 1947, quoted by Bill Jamieson in Britain Beyond Europe.

      “The single currency is the greatest abandonment of sovereignty since the foundation of the European Community … it is a decision of an essentially political nature. We need this United Europe … we must never forget that the Euro is an instrument for this project.”

      Felipe Gonzalez, Socialist Prime Minister of Spain from 1982 to 1996. May 1998.

    • Lord (Chris) Patton is Chairman of the BBC Trust and was previously one of two United Kingdom members of the European Commission.

      Peter Mandelson (of dubious company) and Neil Kinnock (the Welsh wind-bag) were previously European Commissioners.

      • Yes its part of the agenda for a collectivist world government. As is the fracturing of the UK into smaller more easily divided and controlled regions. Waken up citizens of the UK!

  7. Can anyone tell me what punishment will be meted out to the succession of Euro political leaders responsible for this unmitigated disaster? They started out by finger wagging, followed by foot stamping, until the current strapping on of their jackboots. Why have they been allowed to blatantly run the Greek people into the ground, whilst lining their own pockets with the help of their GS recruiment policy? Is there no higher world authority to step in to take control of this criminal fiasco? In the previous article, I found the blase comments of Klaus and Gemz quite disturbing. Should the situation be reversed in their countries and they were suffering at the hands of an inept government, like the population in Greece, I daresay their attitude would not be quite so cavalier.

    • That’s because Klaus & Gemz are not very smart. They see this as a morality play where upright Germans teach all the feckless elsewhere in Europe what to do.

      This whole fiasco is a manifest example of the attraction of extremes to the Germans. When they decided to print money in the early ’20s, they went wild and ruined themselves. When they decided on a debt deflation 10 years later by sticking to the gold standard, with precisely the same garbage (un)reasoning as we hear today in relation to the Euro, they brought on 50% unemployment and the rise of Hitler. Now they are once again exhibiting their talent for making friends and masterly diplomacy by leading the Eurozone to utter destruction. And all the time they are benefitting from an artifically cheap currency to expand their industry and impoverish the rest of Europe. It’s wicked. Satan ain’t in it by comparison.

      • Completely agree weetabix. I find it astounding that people actually buy this morality bulls**t being peddled by Merkel etc. And quite happily watch the destruction of Greece with a feeling of self righteousness.

  8. I wonder if there is anyone at Goldman-Crooks who is interested in this:

    “Greece: State health system will collapse in a few months

    28.01.12, 04:14:

    Within a few months the Greek health system will be at its end, said Health Minister Andreas Loverdos. The money is running out, the treatment of patients must be terminated.

    Without growth, or additional funds, the Greek health care system will be at its end within a few months. This was said by Health Minister Andreas Loverdos on Friday in Athens. The demands of the Troika for further savings cannot be fulfilled. The coffers are empty, and from 2013 the health authorities will no longer be able to maintain their infrastructure. Then, said Loverdos, the treatment of patients must be terminated.”

    A rather concise posting on this one, as an answer to someone who said it was all the fault of the Greek people:

    “I must strongly disagree, because it is not the collective of Greeks that has to answer for this, rather, it is those who deliberately orchestrated it in order to enrich themselves at the cost of the people. Who earns on the continuation and maintainence of this interest-insanity?

    By whom were Papademos (Papa of the village) or Draghi installed? Who massaged the Greek books so that they could be accepted? The answer: Goldman Sachs!

    From this follows, today politics suffers at all levels from a central defect: Strong, well-organised groups misappropriate the state and its actors to pursue their special interests – at the expense of the public, who are usually poorly organised. A central goal of a cosmopolitan like me must therefore be the unbundling of the state and the special interests of powerful societal groups (especially economic interests). This means, inter alia, the outlawing of “Revolving Doors” (switching from business into state office and then back again), the prohibition of advisory and supervisory posts by MPs in the economy, the unconditional disclosure of all incomes, the prohibition of “Loan-Officials” (business representatives who draft legislation in and for ministries) etc. A “restricted area” must be extended around parliaments where lobbying (legal) is banished. Only a strong state can guarantee the rule of law. And a strong state can only be one that is not controlled through the back door by special interests.”

  9. And the Greek people are their serfs.

    Control a country’s fiscal policy and you control ALL of it’s policy, as the funding effects all branches of governance. You do realize that servicing the debt is paramount to ALL other financial concerns in that document. More important than healthcare, education, welfare payments, roads, bridges, garbage collection. To be quite honest this sounds more like war reparations than economic relief.

    So the question for the peoples of ALL the democracies of the world is this, who will you allow to govern you? Unelected bureaucrats, bankers and corporations? A small group of elites who are accountable to nothing but their patron’s bottom line? Sounds like economic feudalism to me.

    Or democratically elected representatives? Governance of the people, by the people, for the people. I myself choose this.

    Why punish people in their millions for the mistakes of successive governments, local elites and foreign creditors. It is they who behaved abysmally and should be held to account by the people. This world needs a whole lot less greed and corruption, and a whole lot more compassion.

    Peace and best wishes to you my Greek brothers and sisters we are all thinking of you.

    • … ‘Peace and best wishes to you my Greek brothers and sisters we are all thinking of you. …’

      Yes;
      Ζήτω η Ελλάδα!

  10. Things are warming up – or not!

    “Ultimatum: Greece rejects discussion about it

    28.01.12, 14:48

    Greece has deposited an informal paper to the EU in which the German demands for a surrender of fiscal sovereignty are categorically rejected.

    Athens is not prepared to relinquish control of its budget to the EU. According to a report by Italian news agency AGI, a Greek government official said that Greece has already “presented an informal statement to the Euro-Group.” The content: “Greece will not even discuss such a possibility (fiscal control through the EU; editor’s note). This is absolutely excluded. Such competencies fall under national sovereignty.” Such a possibility, said the official further, would require a change of the EU treaties.

    In preparation for the EU summit on Monday Germany has presented a paper which, in an unprecedented hardness, demanded the transference of the fiscal rights of Greece to a fiscal Commissioner from the Euro-Group (more here). One of the reasons for the hard approach is, from the German perspective, the Greek lack of propensity to save. A few days ago the EU had set a trial balloon in motion and launched the idea that the Commission could supersede the Greek government in fiscal matters (more here).”

    • @VJ

      do you suppose that the Germans were making a ruse that the Greeks would then simply default?

      It would clear the air a little – and clear out a few private banks too.

      • You have to wonder if that is the case. The fact that it is a despicable act of brinkmanship is also worth a thought.

        When will these disgraceful sub humans be held to account?

      • @Chris

        I doubt if they are sub-human, but they are the sort of people who cannot see trees for wood.

        The problem here – as well evidenced by JW himself – is not the EU or its consituents, but the private banks too. They are refusing to play ball. But they are only responsible to their shareholders, so you cannot hold them to account, can you? You can do that to a politician though, human or not.

        The Greek government is not entirely guilt free in this matter either, though my favourite is the ratings agencies, but then, I would say that, wouldn’t I? They are after all, Anglo-Saxon by nature … but you are Irish, aren’t you.

      • @Gemz When are you going to stop being an apologist or unpaid ambassador for Germany? Whether this is a ‘ruse’ or spin or sideways political move, however you want to whitewash it, it is inhumane, nefariou and fiendish. I agree wholeheartedly with Soap and Sebastion’s comments and feel assured that they won’t childishly complain to me about referring to them rather than at them. How about considering the dire position of the poor Greek housewife when she learned of the imminent catastrophic future of her and her children, when she read the news this morning? Instead you try to justify Merkel and her cronie’s actions. Just out of curiosity, do you receive a stipend from a Germanic source for your undying loyalty and daily defence of the indefensible?

      • @Liz

        no, I do not have a stipend from the German government – though when I am 65 I have the right to draw on a pension that I saved up for whilst I lived there.

        Sadly, it will not be at 50 like many Greeks. Somehow I think things have gotten a little mixed up along the way since I lived in Germany: Greeks are earning twice as much for doing half the work. Is that Germany’s fault?

        I am not saying that the Greeks don’t do any work, but in honesty, are they being paid a fair wage? Their train drivers earn more than many British ones do, and I am pretty sure that their cost of living will be less than yours.

        I can understand the feelings of the Athenian housewife who fears a potential catastrophe. The British banks left us with nothing, and it was not nice. I am sure that because it happened to me, it was my just deserts and no catastrophe. But when you have no money to put food on the table it is worrying to put it mildly. That is the situation your Greek housewife is fearing.

        What I have now, is what I have built up myself through my own invention and commitment to clients’ needs. I have done it in an atmosphere conducive to business development – tax breaks to die for compared to the UK – even for lowly freelancers.

  11. I completely agree John it is so upsetting I can’t believe this paper is real and that these people can even contemplate doing this.
    Is it coincidence that this was all being planned on holocaust remembrance day?

  12. The curse of the Olympic games. Rome, 1960,52 years on,economic collapse.Moscow,1980,9 years on Soviet Union disintegrates.Barcelona,1992, 20 years on,Iberian peninsula bankrupt.Athens,2004,8 years on,Greece destroyed as a nation state.London,2012, 3 years later….

  13. Whilst this is happening in Greece and whilst it is worrying,
    the real problem is in the Strait of Hormuz where the next war
    will be starting very soon.Then none of us have have to worry
    about the bloody eurozone and the useless politicians who run it.

    • Laurence, I think ‘whilst it is worrying,’ is rather an understatement, and I also think that any world development that takes the communal ‘eye’ off the ball will result in the USE being created without so much as a whimper.
      A war with Iran will have huge implications re. fuel supply, particularly for the southern european countries (I will NOT call them states), and I suspect that that will provide an excuse for ‘them wot nose best’ to take charge……all for the better good of course….
      I have always believed in good fortune, alongside the fact that life is what you make it; I hope now is the time for us all to make the lives of our children and grandchildren, if not fortuitous, at least acceptable- please don’t roll over, keep your eye on the ball(s).
      ‘New Scientist’ says our stresses, and need for medication as a result, stem from us being tuned to look for predators such as the leopard or sabre toothed tiger. I think we now have plenty of predators to keep an eye on, and I for one am up for the challenge!
      And not, as Gemz suggests, because I am female, but, like my husband, because it is the right thing to do.

      • Joanna

        I do think that the USE will be created because most of the politician’s
        in the EU seem to believe that it should happen – certainly the UK
        political elite is behind the idea.When the middle east does start up again
        the eurocrat’s will push their dream even further.
        But of course we shouldn’t really worry.The elite always have our best interests at heart don’t they. Or am I being slightly cynical?

  14. Why is anyone surprised by this?

    The Greeks (like us) are no more than an appendage of the new (and not so Holy) Roman Empire….

    France and Germany having being ruled by more than one autocracy/dictatorship have no real idea of what ‘Democracy’ is, democracy after all is another Greek concept they are not concerned about…

    At the end of the day, this is an excercise in naked power politics, and Dave is not the man to point out that ‘Merkozy’ has no clothes…

    The really worrying thing is that if this can happen to Greece, it can happen to us too, and if ‘Wee Eck’ in Scotland thinks the English are bad, wait until he has to deal with ‘Merkozy’, if ever there was a case of hubris awaiting a fall, that is it…

    • @Stuart

      whilst Merkel is no democrat, she has to deal with a Bundestag that is not all that friendly.

      After all, she has almost the same proportion of the votes cast that Thatcher had at the height of her power and a massive majority, yet Merkel must suffer a coalition government with the FDP (the CSU is really the CDU for Bavaria).

    • @Stuart,
      I don’t think that Wee Eck thinks we are bad per se, but I do think he dislikes the self serving politico’s in Westminster looking to themselves first and an EU career next, rather than looking after the citizens of the UK. Our neighbors in the north did a fairly good job in stopping the Roman Empire in its tracks – I think they may have made it as far as Stonehaven, but then retreated to the Antonine wall in Central Scotland, then back to Hadrians wall. Something to do with the determination of the people up there to have self determination.

      • Children Of Tomorrow

        Children of tomorrow
        I apologize to you
        On behalf of those in my time
        For the things we didn’t do
        We didn’t stop the tyrants
        So your fate could be prevented
        We watched them steal our freedom
        By our silence we consented
        We didn’t choose to circumvent
        The doom you’ve not escaped
        While the Bill of Rights was murdered
        And the Constitution raped
        Some of us were lazy
        Others too afraid
        To think about our children
        The ones we have betrayed
        I guess we were too busy
        To be concerned or care
        To try to ease the burden
        Of the chains we made you wear
        We could have been good shepherds
        When the wolf got in the fold
        But we watched the flame of freedom die instead
        And left you cold

        I’m sorry we were timid
        My selfish generation
        We left you but a remnant
        Of a free and prosperous nation
        I’m sorry for our actions
        Like cowards we behaved
        We could have left you freedom
        Instead you are enslaved
        Children of tomorrow
        Descendants of our land
        I’m sorry we allowed this
        The fate you now with stand

        By Anonymous

  15. “French manipulation”

    oh that one couldn’t avoided !

    The french didn’t manipulated Brussels for allowing greece into EZ, but the Italian President of the EU commission of the era, Romano Prodi. The French like the Germans didn’t object !

    Try to be more objective, if you want to be taken seriously and not being labelled as a usual Brit french basher

  16. “desperate times, desperate measures” springs to mind.

    This will not fly, in spite of the mindless push to make it happen. We’ve been waiting firbthe spark to light the fire of mass anger and violent protest.

    Well here it is. Get your f*****g pitchforks.

    • steady on! Thats what they want. Just go on a mass indefinite general strike instead to avoid martial law and bring about the downfall of the corrupt.

  17. The Greeks need a new Solon
    This is copied and pasted from Wikipedia.

    Seisachtheia (Greek: σεισάχθεια, from σείειν seiein, to shake, and ἄχθος achthos, burden, i.e. the relief of burdens) was a set of laws instituted by the Athenian lawmaker Solon (c. 638 BC–558 BC) in order to rectify the widespread serfdom and slaves that had run rampant in Athens by the 6th century BC, by debit relief. Under the pre-existing legal status, according to the account of the Constitution of the Athenians attributed to Aristotle, debtors unable to repay their creditors would surrender their land to them, then becoming hektemoroi, i.e. serfs who cultivated what used to be their own land and gave one sixth of produce to their creditors. Should the debt exceed the perceived value of debtor’s total assets, then the debtor and his family would become the creditor’s slaves as well. The same would result if a man defaulted on a debt whose collateral was the debtor’s personal freedom.

    The seisachtheia laws immediately cancelled all outstanding debts, retroactively emancipated all previously enslaved debtors, reinstated all confiscated serf property to the hektemoroi, and forbade the use of personal freedom as collateral in all future debts. The laws instituted a ceiling to maximum property size – regardless of the legality of its acquisition (i.e. by marriage), meant to prevent excessive accumulation of land by powerful families.

  18. 15 years ago, both Bulgaria and Romania went through rampant inflation linked to a financial crisis. Bucharest narrowly avoided the collapse, but Sofia was less fortunate and experienced a meltdown of the sort Greece is currently trying to prevent.

    The central bank in Bulgaria was subsequently stripped of its powers as the country entered in a “currency board” agreement with the IMF and other international lenders in July 1997, with the lev being pegged to the German D-Mark, which was replaced by the euro in 2001. Aimed at lowering inflation, boosting national reserves and restoring market confidence in the country, the currency board nevertheless seriously dented Bulgaria’s sovereignty. BUT it has worked! AND still working really good!

    Q.E.D.

  19. So we know that Greece has now selflessly avoided the kind offer of help from the ”Troika”, and suspect that the vigilantes will be licking their lips at the prospect of now heading straight for the jugular of the ”Diktat” itself.

    • Prof -”So we know that Greece has now selflessly avoided the kind offer of help from the ”Troika”, and suspect that the vigilantes will be licking their lips at the prospect of now heading straight for the jugular of the ”Diktat” itself.”
      When we all stop talking about Greece as a being, we might start to get somewhere-unless you are in Dr WHO speak……I suspect you are being ironic when you say Greece has turned down the kind offer….I think I too would say No to the morphine if it was laced with arsenic!
      Pray tell, who are the vigilante’s? Just wondered…..

  20. John,
    the one thing that tickles me most is the fact that you STILL don’t get it. You STILL don’t think it’s a conspiracy.

    You said: “””””””No: what happened – and here comes the fourth point – was that banking firms overlent to Greece (and other ClubMeds) ridiculously, and the ECB did absolutely nothing to oversee and control that. Quite the opposite in fact: Jean-Claude Trichet grasped the post-2004 cheap credit with both hands, and showered every new ezone entrant with it.”””””

    EXACTLY. This bait drew the mugs into the web woven by the Internationalist One-Worlders who had planned this all along. Now they’ve pulled the rug from under their victims, installing their place-men at the helm of governments…. and are now audacious enough to take direct control of a nation-state. (with others to follow).
    The Empire’s bankers, Goldman Sachs, lied to everyone about Greece’s financial status because it was PART OF THE PLAN. What couldn’t be achieved militarily has now been achieved financially….. the first country to be openly taken over by the international bankers.

    You also said…..””””””A nation of unwisely laid-back people is being sold to a pack of anti-social bankers in return for the continuance in power of their fraternity – and that of the elites that depend on them more and more. They are being sacrificed on the altar of Mammon and his greatest servants,”””””””

    Do you think that these One-World plotters give a rat’s arse about the views of ordinary citizens? These crooks can’t (yet) go ahead with their world population reduction plan, but when the time is right and their grip on the throats of their citizens is tight enough, they’ll cull us without a moment’s hesitation.

    You finished with….”””””There’s certainly no dithering involved in the Troika takeover ‘proposal’, so what does our Prime Minister feel about it all? Well, he doesn’t care about anything except money and power really….so yesterday he quietly rolled over as the Coalition signalled that it will not challenge the fiscal enforcement role for European commission””””””

    John, you’ve underestimated Davey-Boy. You’ve said in previous posts that he’s dumb / stupid / has no original thoughts / only thinks of money and power. Yes, indeed….he’s all of these things. But there’s one thing you’ve missed.
    He’s in on the plot. He knows the agenda. He’ll talk tough for the benefit of the credulous electorate, but quietly, he will do anything and sign everything to help advance the goal of his masters.

    The best words of advice I ever received were from a friend who said to me… “Ken, your government HATES you, don’t ever believe otherwise.” I’d like to pass these words on to you.
    Kennyboy

    • @kennyboy:
      As always, there’s a lot of truth in what you say. But to believe it (the EZ mess) is all part of a carefully planned and controlled plot (a conspiracy), one must have evidence and there isn’t much around. Sure, we all know that a European superstate was on the hidden agenda since Day One and few people deny that now as the shambles has unravelled. But in answer to your allegations, the political elites would simply say that it is actually not a conspiracy to enslave us by bankers at all, but a collection of unintended consequences resulting from overzealous attempts to do good for the people of Europe, worsened by a fair amount of incompetence and stupidity.

      OTOH, virtually all of the key players in this tragedy are forms of socialist and we know that international socialism is a long standing aim of theirs and their comrades. See Gordon Brown.

      • @BT
        I’m always surprised that conspiracy as a theory is always written off so energetically, given that a conspiracy only requires two or more people to formulate, however loosely, a plan.

        The really clever conspiracies, like the financial ones, generally provide a profit for the originators whether events go well or badfy. It is movement that generates the profit, not success.

        Isn’t that the problem which has contributed so much to the position we are in today?

        The issue for me is that there is always someone to argue that the end justifies the means. Often well intended people. But therein the problem. If we don’t cling to the belief that regardless of the outcome the means must be at the least acceptable, we merely slide further down the slope.

      • @Jwoo:
        One of the flaws in conspiracies is that we must assume that the actions (not the words) of the conspirators were carefully planned and executed and didn’t happen by chance or thru incompetence and dogma.

        So for example, the gigantic mess that Gordon Brown made of the British economy: he raped private pension funds, kick-started an unprecedented credit bubble, pushed up taxes/introduced countless other taxes, increased costly bureaucracy, sold the gold at a bargain-basement price, increased the size of government etc etc etc. The list goes on.
        ALL of these actions were obviously seriously flawed and are progressively impoverishing the middle class population, bankrupting the nation, raising unrest and bailing out the banks.

        The question then becomes: “were all of his destructive policies carefully planned and executed with the intent of creating the conditions whereby he could introduce a Marxist State or summat similar?” or “were they the actions of a psychopathic Marxist driven by socialist dogma who really believed he was gifted with superior skills than other people?”

        I don’t know the answer to that. But I feel that the far bigger charge of it all being knowingly deliberate (conspiracy) needs some serious evidence to be believed, even though his destructive policies couldn’t have been more effective if he’d sat down with Balls and worked them all out in detail.

    • You are only writing what has already been documented by the genocidal maniacs themselves. There is no doubt about it, people only need to research the subject.

  21. I say this with some trepidation: Perhaps a European superstate wouldn’t be such a bad idea if all the states involved were treated equally & had equal powers.. The problem is, as is evidenced by events, Germany & the Eurocrats are clearly in charge & acting out of pure self interest. It’s obvious they basically don’t care about the fortunes of the weaker members & if self preservation means turning them into vassal states, so be it.

    I read up on Vichy France earlier today, it seems to me that Greece could end up being something similar, but obviously in less extreme circumstances. This would have been achieved by a combination of bankers & their like, foreign politicians, Eurocraps, the IMF & the so called markets, not by very messy total war as before. Greece were the first to be handed the yellow triangles due to their huge debt, but remember we all have the same unsustainable debt. The question is, who will the markets & their collaborators will turn on next as they surely will. The system will keep on unwinding because the disease is systemic & amputation of one part will not stop it. We also know that the politicians have proven that they are quite capable of selling out their constituents, in a full scale race to the bottom.

    This is a song by the Irish singer Christy Moore which sums it up for me. I personally believe that ” We are all Greeks now “, all in the same leaking boat & guess who will be sitting in the too few lifeboats. in this disaster however, it is, & will be women & children last.

  22. If one follows the greek situation to its imminent conclusion they will fall out of the eurozone either be choice or ejection. There will then be a long road to recovery as they try and relaunch a new greek currency. Lots of destitution and possibly a civil war will ensue. If we are lucky their multiple defaults wont slaughter large western banking houses. Such is the result of the ongoing and maturing debt deleveraging that has to occur before real growth can take place once more

  23. Pingback: EU GOES FORWARD: TIME TO CELEBRATE A CENTURY OF CHANGE…. | The Slog

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